Unfortunately I think Gordon has shown that everything is says needs to be
taken with a grain of salt approximately the size of Montana. That may be
the way it is now, but I wouldn't count on that meaning it isn't a bug.
Especially if the cap raises with RoK.

Kit

-----Original Message-----
From: Reeves, Patrick W [mailto:pwr3@...]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:35 AM
To: 'eqbards@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [eqbards] ugh, shutting bards out of lotto getting more
wides pread

I doubt it is a bug. I recall either Gordon or Bard stating that nearly any
haste item coupled with a haste song/spell will put players at max haste.

Rokenn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kimes, Dean W. [mailto:dean_kimes@...]
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 9:19 AM
> To: 'eqbards@egroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [eqbards] ugh, shutting bards out of lotto getting more
> wides pread
>
>
> I would imagine that the Haste effects jumping to 75% no
> matter which ones
> you combine is a bug. As such eventually its liable to get
> fixed, probably
> sooner rather than later since its a bug that benefits
> players. Once this
> happens those lower end Haste items are not going to be as
> good for a bard
> as the high end ones, any more than they are for melee types.
>
> Kit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kim@... [mailto:kim@...]
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:18 AM
> To: eqbards@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [eqbards] ugh, shutting bards out of lotto getting more
> widespread
>
>
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Jeff Heskett wrote:
> >
> > tonight i found out that no longer will bards in our guild
> be allowed on
> > lotto for haste items, ever. (unless it's bard-only)
> >
> > 2 cloak of flames dropped off nagafen last time (i wasn't there or i
> > would've known about this sooner) and bards were excluded
> in the lotto.
> no
> > more runed bolster belts will be going to bards either.
>
> CoF and RBB I have no problems with being non-bard. We don't
> benefit from the additional haste (unless you're chain/fearing
> with weapons, and if you're doing that often enough that you
> feel you need one of these items, what's the point of being in
> a guild?). The extra AC and stats are nice, but in no way
> make up for the additional haste (10%-15%) that another melee
> class could gain from these two items.
>
> > (fbss only likely
> > one now, and only then if no other guild members that need
> it are in group
> > according to guild rules)
>
> This I would sort of agree with, sort of disagree with. With
> a low-end haste item like a swirlspine belt or FBSS, a bard
> could arguably gain *more* benefit than any other melee class.
> Take the FBSS for example. It gives a 21% haste. For a L50
> bard whose normal melee haste is 30% (Verses), the FBSS will
> put them at 75% haste - a 35% improvement. For a sub-50 bard
> whose normal max melee haste is 20% (Celerity), the FBSS gives
> a 45% improvement. In the hands of any other melee class,
> it's only a 21% improvement unless they're grouped with a bard
> or enchanter or shaman (only then does it become a 75%
> improvement). The difference is even more pronounced with a
> swirlspine belt which from reports is a 15% haste. I dunno
> how many bard/ench/sham are in your guild so I can't say how
> compelling an argument that would be. But if the melee
> classes rarely group with bards and enchanters, then the melee
> argument favors the bard as most able to use a FBSS or
> swirlspine.
>
> Now, OTOH, a bard of the right level to get these items has a
> *lot* of other tools available. My Belt of Concordance goes
> mostly unused - a single Chant with my Selo's drum equals or
> exceeds my average melee output with weapons and max haste.
> The only time I use my weapons lately is when I feel like
> diving into melee, or if the mob is pretty much immune to
> magic, or if I'm prohibited from using the chants (TTs in
> Fear seem to poof if they die from a DoT).
>
> I would recommend to your guild leader that rather than
> completely exclude bards from these items, to set up a
> "scorecard." If a bard has helped (say) 5 other people in the
> guild get a FBSS or swirlspine belt, then the next one is his.
> That avoids the slippery slope problem where newer younger
> guildmembers keep getting ahead of you in priority. I would
> stay out of the CoF and RBB entirely, but if you really want
> one, I'd suggest something like seeing 25-30 of them given to
> guildmembers before you're allowed to roll for it.
>
> > i need some pursuasive arguments to back me up. this is a
> guild of 150+
> > different players. (tho minus a few bards lately)
>
> Not many guilds on Karana with 150+ players. ;-)
>
> > i tried a few arguments mentioned on this list, but the
> leaders of the
> guild
> > are pretty sure that since bards have haste songs, they
> don't need a haste
> > item. (even tho they stack)
>
> Their reasoning is wrong - if you follow it through like I did
> above, bards get the *most* melee benefit from haste items of
> any class. But for the other reasons I outlined above, I
> pretty much have to side with them.
>
> OTOH, they damn well better be willing to break their backs to
> teleport a bard up to air if a Belt of Concordance drops and
> there's no bard present.
>
> --
> John H. Kim
> kim@...
>
>
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