I've played a bard since April 99. When the Lullaby nerf was made, I had used
the song on enough occasions to get a pretty good idea of how well it worked.
For anyone, whether they be players or Verant, to think that Lullaby pre-stealth
nerf was ridiculously powerful is in itself a ridiculous statement.
At its best, Lullaby was only capable of derailing trains consisting of green
mobs. If the bard was trying to Lullaby several yellow or red mobs, then he
stood a good chance of dying. Why? From April 99 until GZ conducted a test on
Veeshan (late 99), the bard community was under the false impression that the
effect of Lullaby lasted for three pulses, just like most of our other songs.
There was no reason for us to think otherwise. It wasn't until after the GZ
Veeshan test that we discovered Lullaby was a one tick song. If you were going
to use this song for crowd control, that meant you had to keep singing it
non-stop. But for almost a eight months we didn't know that so instead we were
weaving it with one or two other songs. So what ended up happening was that the
effect wore off after one pulse and the mobs all started beating up on the bard.
Inevitably with multiple mobs beating up on the bard, the bard would get
stunned, stop singing, and it was all downhill from there. So until we were
told Lullaby was a one pulse song, it was almost impossible for a bard to
consistently derail a large train because hardly anyone was singing the song
non-stop. And since we couldn't do it consistently, in no way was this song
overpowered.
Also, we were unaware prior to the GZ Veeshan test that higher level mobs (30+)
got a secondary resist check against Lullaby. This secondary resist check,
which was implemented around Sep/Oct 99 timeframe, was the first major stealth
nerf of bards. One day the song is working fine for 30+ bards, then the stealth
nerf goes in and all of sudden the song is worthless. To make the matter even
worse, we were still getting text messages that the mob didn't resist the song.
So what ended up happening was 30+ bards, thinking Lullaby would work against
30+ mobs like it did against 30- mobs, were weaving this song against mobs that
got an invisible secondary resist rate. This went on from April 99 to late 99.
So until we were told that mobs got a secondary resist rate, we used Lullaby
thinking it would work. End result is a lot of dead bards.
The bard community voiced their concern to Verant and they finally listened to
us. In late 99, GZ conducted a test on Veeshan and concluded the song worked as
designed. It was then that we discovered that Lullaby was a one pulse song and
that mobs got a secondary resist check with a base 35% success rate. Fine. He
also tells us that bard level vs mob level will factor into the resist check as
well as the bards charisma. So if you were higher level than the mob with a
high charisma then the 35% secondary resist chance would get reduced. Fine. So
bards kept using the song thinking that if they were facing blues with a high
charisma, then the song would have a fairly decent chance at success. Wrong.
Dead bards everywhere attest to the fact that the song still wasn't working
right. So we continued to tell Verant the song was broke but it fell on deaf
ears. And we couldn't objectively prove it was broken because we were still
getting the text message that the song was successfully sticking. It wasn't
until a later patch that the secondary resist message got added into the game.
Now we knew for certain if the mob resisted the song. Armed with text log
parsing files, John Kim and Kitasi were able to run tests that proved
conclusively that the song was broken. That was months ago. And despite
repeated promises that they will look into it, Verant still hasn't acknowledged
that the song is broken. IMO, that lack of acknowledgement and unwillingness to
fix the song in and of itself exemplifies everything that is wrong with Verant.
Galtin of E'ci
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Merck [mailto:
mmerck@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 11:30 AM
To:
eqbards@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [eqbards] Another Lullaby question
I do remember comments that it was riduculously powerful back when it did
work. I remember reading serveral posts about bards stopping mega-trains
dead and killing off 15-25 mobs one at a time.
A few weeks after these stories emerged, it was nerfed.
Yes, an enchanter can keep multiple mobs under indeffinetly, but it is a
situation they have to put effort into to manage. They have to choose an
order, they have to deal with targeting, they have to be aware of timing,
etc. etc.
Clarity, Aoe Stun, target, mez, target, mez, target, mez, target, mez,
meditate, target, mez, all in order, etc. etc. Is not the same thing as
hitting one hotkey.
> From: "Kimes, Dean W." <dean_kimes@...>
> Reply-To: eqbards@egroups.com
> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:02:22 -0600
> To: "'eqbards@egroups.com'" <eqbards@egroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [eqbards] Another Lullaby question
>
> Well I considered that argument and promptly rejected it after we ran a
> simple test. The enchanter can cast Breeze on themself and keep a group of
> 4 mobs that are even cons, mezzed forever. The resist rate isn't high
> enough to give them much trouble since it's below 10% and the mez lasts
> longer than it takes to med back the mana.
>
> I then tried the same tactic with lullaby. 6 greater heals later I gave up.
> Lullaby met with about 40% success on the even cons. That means it reduced
> damage by 40%. Largo's reduces damage by 30%, is seldom resisted, and
> doesn't stop reducing damage when someone smacks the target.
>
> I don't want 90% success. If it worked 75%of the time on even cons at high
> charisma Lullaby would be viable. Not as good as an enchanter by any means
> since it lasts 6 seconds, it's all you can do if you keep them mezzed other
> than swing waking up the one you are hitting. It doesn't even begin to make
> enchanters obsolete.
>
> Its duration of one tick should be more than enough to balance it out. Add
> a higher resist rate than enchanters and it would still be ok. I certainly
> don't recall anyone ever claiming it was ridiculously powerful back when it
> did work 85% of the time. Nobody claimed that enchanters were made obsolete
> by this. This song used to be very useful and got me into quite a few
> groups from level 15-18. Since it has been broken I have used it combat
> exactly 3 times. I put it away in disgust all three times.
>
> Kitasi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Merck [mailto:mmerck@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 12:01 PM
> To: eqbards@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [eqbards] Another Lullaby question
>
>
> I think the reason lullaby will never work to the degree we all want it too
> is simple - it would devalue the enchanter class to such a huge degree there
> would hardly be a need for them. It would be so hugely unbalancing that VI
> will never make it work the way it seems it should.
>
> An AoE mez that doesn't require mana, doesn't require targeting, allows you
> to melee as well and crowd control with no effort, risk or thought other
> than hitting a single hotkey is just too powerful.
>
> It's the same reason they nerfed 54 chains.
>
> Maybe what people should do is offer suggestions about how to balance the
> song in a different way other than having it not work 90% of the time. Like,
> make it cost mana for each pulse or make it effect the bard as well as the
> mobs, or make it a single pulse song instead of a constant one.
>
>> After looking over the Lullaby data again while posting a huge
> sledgehammer
>> of a question hit me over the head.
>>
>> Why does Lullaby have a secondary resist???
>>
>
>
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