you're right, if there is an enchanter or shaman or both in the group then
there is very little for a bard to do to buff the group, if anything but
mana. that's a situation where you can do some song damage (or take a
breather if an easy camp and just relax, 56 levels of twisting songs is
killing my fingers), and i said many times that our songs do a lot more
damage than our weapons. but if a bard is there to do the group buffing,
you are not going to be using songs to do damage. that was my only point,
which i regret even trying to make since it did not come across correctly,
and now i am the stupid bard who doesn't know how to play.

Shada

> I'm gonna have to agree to disagree on Sylly's side. :)
>
> Last night in Sebilis we had 2 groups.. including a Shaman and
> Enchanter (2 at one point). I didn't need to Haste, Slow, Snare (2
> druids), Heal (2 clerics, 2 druids, 1 shaman)... I could have sang
> battle buffs to buff some str and dex and such, but there was only 1
> tank (Warrior) in my party... not a whole lot of mileage gained. So,
> I chanted (with selo's drum) and I charmed (a little) and I played
> mana song and bind sight to help scout in the downtime.
>
> Was I being the most effective Bard I could be... imho, Yes. And was
> that helpful to the group? Hell, yes. Don't forget the magic, fire,
> and cold resistances you're also lowering on top of the damage you're
> doing. That's helping every one of your nukers, procing weapons,
> overzealous druids with their newfound starburst, etc.