Interesting ideas, but he was solely tracking the average damage he did per
hit. i.e. he hit 200 times for 1800 points with no other warrior types in
group but only hit 200 times for 1350 points with another warrior type in
group. His buffs remained constant he says. The one possibility I thought
of was that since the mobs were dying twice as fast, the mobs were only
allowing him to hit them half as often when they were stunned or in that
vulnerable agility reduced state they get in when badly wounded.
Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Aanluil Lumiaria [mailto:
e-wolf@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 10:46 AM
To:
eqbards@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [eqbards] Group composition effect on Damage?
Kit,
I regularly group with my RL brother who plays a gnome warrior and
I've seen similar symptoms. However, the symptoms I've seen can be
explained without implying strange code. It wouldn't surprise me if
such code existed knowing Verant, however the usual causes and
explanations I've seen are as follows.
Situation #1: bard and warrior add a second melee
Warrior(21) and bard(21) fighting single pulls. The bard buffs the
warrior (playing Anthem, Largos, Hymn/Chords with lute or DDD with
horn). The warrior is doing nice damage because of Anthem buffing his
STR and ATK speed and taking little damage because of Largos and the
DoT is helping weaken the enemy life (or life + AC with Denons.)
Twisting in Hymn near the end instead of Chords/DDD reduces downtime
to almost nothing. The group adds a second warrior that doesn't
understand taunt and starts fighting multiple pulls. Bard is getting
smacked around a lot more thus strength buffing is less consistent.
Also, the enemy is being slowed down less thus bashing the warrior
more thus reducing the average damage even more. Invalid example
because the fight was changed? Yes. But did your ogre warrior guild
mate consider the group dynamics when calculating his statistics?
Situation #2: warrior and druid add a second melee
Warrior grouped with Druid. Fighting aviaks at the 3 spawn in Lake
Rathetear. Druid buffs self with Thistlecoat, SoW, Skin Like Rock,
Strength of Earth, Firefist. Druid buffs warrior with SoW, Skin Like
Rock, Strength of Earth and during battles, Thorn shield. That's 3
birds in 6 minutes. Warrior pulls as they pop. Druid casts thorn
shield on the warrior then casts snare, flame lick, stinging swarm on
the bird then meditates. The druid finds himself gradually going down
in mana overall. They decide to add a (insert melee class here.) The
druid no longer has the mana pool to buff both melee classes, cast
DoTs, thorn shield, snares, etc. and med it back before the repop but
with the second melee, the buffs aren't required. Druid elects not to
use Strength of Earth since it just makes the battle go faster and
reduces the effectiveness of the DoTs but he keeps up the Skin Like
Rock to reduce damage. The battles go really well but the warrior is
now doing less damage on average because he's missing Strength of
Earth and he doesn't even notice the missing buff because the fights
are much easier. Average damage per warrior goes down. Average damage
overall goes up a lot (from the second melee.) Eventually the druid
will be able to regain enough mana to cast Strength of Earth but at
that point there's no incentive to use it because they are already
keeping the spawn clear easily. Perhaps your ogre warrior guild mate
didn't take into account which buffs he had on while tracking his
damage? This situation can apply with any caster that can buff
strength.
Situation #3: warrior and enchanter add a second melee
Warrior and enchanter are grouped in Upper Guk fighting at the
antechamber to the Scryer room. They are fighting appropriate level
creatures. Warrior is permanently buffed with Mist and Strengthen.
Warrior gets buffed in-battle with quickness. Enchanter mezzes extras
to make sure they only fight one frog at a time. Enchanter also casts
languid pace on the frog that the warrior is fighting. They add a
second melee to try clearing more of the Scryer room. Enchanter buffs
second melee with Mist (mana expensive) and Strengthen (mana cheap.)
Enchanter keeps other creatures mezzed and still uses quickness on the
warrior. Doesn't bother with quickness on the second melee because
it's expensive and they are primarily extra melee damage on the back
of the creature. The enchanter also doesn't bother with Languid Pace
because the solo frogs die too fast to make it worth the mana cost
since two melees are beating down one frog. Average damage of the
warrior goes down because he is getting hit more. Damage speed and
power stay the same because he still has the same buffs. Perhaps your
ogre warrior guild mate didn't take into account the spells being cast
on the enemies when calculating his average damage? This situation
can apply with any caster that can reduce enemy AC or attack speed.
Situation #4: warrior and cleric (no STR buff) add a second melee
Let's say the warrior and his cleric friend are fighting Dervish
Cutthroats in South Ro. They are slightly underpowered to take the
camp but will be able to clear it. The camp is a 3 derv spawn. They
shout out for another melee to add to the group because they know it
will be tough to keep clearing 3 every 6 minutes and it will be much
safer to fight with one more person. The camp currently has 3 dervs -
human (wizard), human (rogue), human(rogue). The cleric uses Soothe
and they start the fight with the wizard. The warrior tries to
interrupt the casting with bash and tries to keep it taunted to him
while the cleric blasts with Strike/Smite. The fight goes well. Next,
the cleric Soothes again and the warrior pulls a rogue. No problem.
This fight is fairly straightforward. Then they pull the second rogue
and finish it off two. At that point, they add another melee to their
group and start working on the re-pop while the cleric recovers. The
two melees should take less damage and finish off each derv easily.
The camp repops with barbarian (rogue), ogre (rogue), human (rogue).
Now the warrior continues to be the primary tank but this time around,
he is getting bashed more and thus doing less average damage. Perhaps
your ogre warrior guild mate has mistakenly forgotten to take into
account coincidental bad luck with a spawn when adding a second melee?
This situation can apply with any spawn site that is being continually
cleared and that has a random variation of enemies that can bash, and
enemies that can't.
As an addendum, there are variations between spawns of the same
creature that also complicate this fourth situation. Sometimes, a
creature will be the same level as a previous one but is a lot tougher
despite still being even.
For example: Let's say you have a group with a druid, enchanter,
magician, warrior and cleric. The warrior fights a froglok(warrior)
that cons even. The druid flame licks and snares, the magician blasts,
the enchanter mezzez the others nearby yet has trouble with one in
particular. A floglok warrior that also cons even. When the warrior
gets to that second froglok warrior that cons even, he fights it as
normal. The druid casts Flame Lick... resisted. again. resisted.
again. resisted. again. sticks. Snare... resisted. again. resisted.
again. sticks. The magician blasts. resisted. again. resisted. again.
does damage equal to the previous froglok warrior. Either everyone
had bad luck with the random number generator simultaneously or there
was something special about that second froglok warrior. Either
situation is possible and adds another layer of complication to the
damage statistics the warrior might try to collect even taking into
account situation #4.
Hmmm. This seems to have become yet another long post. Sorry for the
spam. It's not really related to bards.
Aanluil Lumiaria
Erollisi Marr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kimes, Dean W." <dean_kimes@...>
To: <eqbards@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 5:53 PM
Subject: [eqbards] Group composition effect on Damage?
> Here's a question for the knowledgeable out there. Our guild's ogre
warrior
> has been tracking his average damage per hit for some time now.
Apparently
> if he is grouped with any group not including another warrior, or a
ranger,
> or a rogue, or a monk, or a paladin, he inflicts 15% more damage on
an
> average per hit basis than he does when there is another one of
those types
> in the group.
>
> I haven't had a chance to check his numbers yet, but I did observe
that he
> rarely hits for over 80 when grouped with myself and a ranger. When
grouped
> with just myself against the same mobs he often hit for over 80 and
> sometimes even 100 without criticals.
>
> Has anybody heard of anything like this before?
>
> Kit
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