Well, reading what you wrote, we're probably not as different as you might think.
I really like the chant series myself, but the tradeoff is that we aren't singing any party buff or MOB
debuff songs while using it, so whether or not it's a good idea is situational. I do use them. I don't
use them on large group efforts since I can't get high enough on the hate list to avoid the DOT bug (no,
it's not fixed).
I do think that Bards are really very useful, and one of the more powerful classes. I even agree with you
that we're useful in the "standard group" mix that so many fall into. The problem is whether or not there
is room for us, and it's my experience that people don't build groups around Bards the way they build
groups around other character types; they fit Bards in if it's convenient. Which lessens our grouping
opportunities quite a bit.
Part of it is training. There aren't enough Bards (and certainly not enough good ones) for people to know
what we're capable of. So I have to really argue with people to attempt things sometimes. For example,
it took a lot of work to convince people to try anything other than zone-in in Sebilis without an
Enchanter. I've done 5 other areas now, but it's always a big struggle to convince people that it's worth
the risk.
Pulling is another thing. Lament is a great tool, but most people don't even know we have it, and
certainly don't get how it works. So I get in groups that have the level 52 warrior shoot things with an
arrow to pull, which will be definition be no better than, and probably worse than, letting me Lament
pull.
It's frustrating to have to constantly educate people at the mid-50s level. And the fact that so many
aren't educated makes their perception of Bards worse than the reality, and that perception makes it
harder for us to group.
About good bards: I was grouped with a mid-50s ranger the other night, and he was amazed that I was
twisting songs. Not twisting 4 (which I was doing), just twisting at all. He'd never seen it. And he'd
played with Bards. And he's level 55, for Pete's sake.
Kenross Cantoforjado, 54 songs, Innoruuk
James Schuldes wrote:
> Heh - Kenross - we play the bard totally differently!
>
> Comments below (talking about 51+ bards) ---->
>
> Sylly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth E. Bachman [mailto:kbachman@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 11:23 AM
> To: eqbards@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [eqbards] going thru the archives....
>
> > 1. The Bard's offense sucks. He adds less offense than anything other
> than, perhaps, a Cleric.
> > 2. During combat, the Bard can sing offensively oriented songs which add
> to the capabilities of the melee
> > members of his party, or counter the abilities of the MOB, which dereases
> mana and decreases risk.
>
> Or, he can use instrument and Chants. With good instruments, significant
> damage - like >1800 per minute. So, bard's add 1200 to 1500 with store
> drums. Get MM or Tamborine or Selo's and you do more.
>
> > 3. During downtime, the Bard can sing downtime-reducing songs. This
> decreases downtime risk and
> > decreases downtime itself. This allows the party to pull stuff faster.
>
> Actually, mana song in downtime keeps clerics and hybrids at full potential.
> Your ench has Theft of Thought and with that and his own clarity buff he
> should stay above 66% mana if not more. Kinda all depends on where you
> fight and training your group to let you keep your "mana mob" alive. But
> mana for ench is not a problem normally.
>
> A cleric with an ench and a bard in the group can pretty much nuke to his
> heart is content and that is 516 to 1032 more dmg per mob. The cleric will
> ask the bard to play mana song in combat if things are falling behind mana
> wise. I dont find that an un-reasonable request at all. Let me also say
> that I actively play 54 bard, 53 cleric and 51 enchanter and have been in
> groups with other bards.
>
> > The problem is "the situation". There are 7 things that high-level Kunark
> parties need: 1) crowd
> > control, 2) primary healer, 3) a tank, 4) a puller, 5) a group gater
> (sometimes), 6) a lockpicker
> > (sometimes), 7) secondary healer (sometimes).
>
> Our enchanters (mine too) don't go into dungeon's without clerics (and
> clerics that they can trust). Next is a plate class tank. We use mez &
> cheal tactics. Conservation of mana is accomplished by having a tank with
> high hps be the focus of the mobs attention. Next on the list is a "snare"
> person. I hate that role as a bard. Our snares suck - we have to re-stick
> it. I pretty much have to drop everything else to maintain the snare - much
> rather have a ranger, druid, sk, necro or wizard doing the snares. But then
> - you pretty much have the requirements for a decent exp group. Lockpick,
> evac for certain spots but you certainly have other choices. Secondary
> healer? Only if you would lose a cleric for some odd reason.
>
> > The bard can't do any of these things other than limited crowd control, or
> pulling (which doesn't allow him to
> > play the downtime reducing role), which means that he doesn't satisfy any
> of the core requirements.
>
> A bard can't be the plate class meat-shield tank that gets chealed while
> taunting the mobs as they are BS'd to death. Thats a Warriors job.
>
> A bard cant be primary healer - that's a cleric's job.
>
> He can be the snare person - but if he;s like me - its not much fun.
>
> He can do good additional damage with DoT's (chants) and he can keep mana
> maxxed and actually above provide more to allow others to do more than
> usual.
>
> Yes, the specialtys are needed for certain places - but that is why they are
> specialties - I wish bards could pick more doors in Kunark. I have "heard"
> that Scars of V. will have places for "sense traps" and "disarm traps" to be
> used. Will they let us bards do this? Let's hope.
>
> Any person who spends a lot of time in /gu telling everyone how much their
> class sucks will soon discover that the guild is if not believing them - at
> least totally sick of hearing them whine and they wont be getting groups.
> It wont be a matter of class balance, but it will be how they play their
> char - ie constant whining. Yes, I think bards need some fixing up and
> perhaps VI has done this in this patch - but the constant whining about how
> badly bard's suck (whether they do or not) hurts more than anything towards
> getting a group.
>
>
> Please send submissions for the eqbards newsletter to lol@... with the subject submissions.