Both the Vox and Naggy raids on Veeshan end in wipeouts too sometimes.
Which is absolutly absurd considering the equipment avialable these days.
The last straw for me was a group losely termed "Coalition of Bards" who was
organized by a friend of mine to get a 5 bards and 3 pals their vox epic
peices. The G1 cleric spent the enitre prep time asking me what loot he
would get, ignoring the instructions being shouted aout buffing. I just
sang the cancel magic song repeatedly as he continued buffing us (we were
having a level 60 cleric and shaman friend buff everyone AFTER 4 dummy
buffs). A monk on the raid TWICE agroed Vox on the buff area, among
countless other idiocy.

I would be happy to never get my Epic if it meant never being on a raid like
that again.