From: "Wayne Sheppard" <
mrwayne@...>
>Bards are better than Clerics/Druids/Shaman in melee combat.
>Bards are better than Paladins/Rangers in spell combat.
>If you have any doubt of the above statements, duel one using just combat
or
>spells where appropriate.
I have dueled Shamans and Clerics of equal level without spells. I lost 5
out of 7 duels. They were stronger, had more hit points and had about equal
armor if not superior due to superior strength. I had higher dex and
agility which seemed to matter, but not enough to make me win. I imagine I
could beat most druids in pure melee due to far better ac, but a glowing
crook staff would rapidly even things out as we have no equivalent melee
weapon below the 30+ levels. That staff rocks! Too bad we have a max skill
of 1 in 2HS and 2HB.
I have only dueled a ranger in ranged combat only. No contest he smoked me
taking only 2 bubbles of health. Of course he did use a bow which we cannot
use. Main problem was we were 16th at the time and he could camo and I
could not. He knew when he was in range, I did not. He knew which way to
run to get in range, I did not. I am sure I could beat either if we used
only spells.
>From: "Wayne Sheppard" <mrwayne@...>
>Many (most) of the Bard songs improve the entire group. A solo Bard is
like
>fighting with one arm tied behind your back. Comparing Bards to any other
>class in solo capabilities is not a fair comparison of the overall
>powerfulness of a class.
Never compared just the solo ability. Always said our group abilities help
mitigate our solo weaknesses. At 20th level those weakness become zero
effectiveness. Balancing that would require group invincibility. Instead
we become group target without the ability to properly defend ourselves. I
agree we are more powerful in party combat. I do not compare simply our
solo ability to that of others. You cannot always get a competent group to
play with in non-primetime hours. I do however maintain that our
CONSIDERABLE group play advantages are not equal to our VAST solo
deficiencies. The two do not balance out. I find no other class where this
is true. Every other class is fairly balanced when one considers its solo
abilities and its party benefits together against each of the other
classes.
>From: "Wayne Sheppard" <mrwayne@...>
>Bard songs will never be as magically powerful as other casters (pure and
>priest types). But Bards have a huge advantage of never needed mana (lvl
43
>song excepted). It is not a fair to compare the effectiveness of a bard
>song which can be repeated as much as needed to a spell which comsumes
mana.
Not entirely true. I can only continue to use the song until the mob kills
me. If in that amount of time another class can kill then mob without dying
when at 75% mana then I would say it is obvious they are more effective than
a bard. It is relatively easy to maintain a resource of known value (mana)
at a reasonable level. The result is less downtime for bards since we don't
need to meditate to regain mana. The cost of that downtime is far greater
ineffectiveness when at full power or even at 75%.
>The above statements are facts and cannot be disputed. Every Bard should
>understand these facts. If you base your discussion on something to the
>contrary, your whole logic chain falls apart.
No need to base the discussion on anything else, they clearly are opinions,
not facts.
Bottom line again is I play a bard because it is my nature. Not because it
is the most powerful class, or even in my opinion equally powerful to any
onther class. It is more fun, FOR ME, because it is my nature. The
continuing ineffectiveness is reducing that FUN bit by bit. Eventually, at
the current rate of nerfing, it will not be fun and I will play another
class or another game. While there is no other class that can do all the
things I like to do, there is nothing I can do as a bard that another class
cannot do better, well except that flute dance thing. There are other
things I would like to do that other classes can do that I cannot. One is
being able to play without being at the whim of others to "tie one hand
behind my back" for me.
Dean
Kitasi
Xabasbus
Uradnokoya
Etc...