True but they all get it. I figured it was maxed higher than it would be
capped anyhow, like all the 'bard' skills my wood elf might as well not get
either. Also that stun possibility is cool, wish I could stun somebody
ever. A stupid skeleton can hit me for 1 pt and stun me but I can't stun a
fire beetle for gosh sakes.

Track is not a melee skill. It doesn't fit into this discussion. We do not
get parry. Even if I agree Bards are hybrids along the same lines as
rangers, shadowknights, and paladins, it only fuels my argument (and John's)
that we should have more melee skills than we do. Rangers get 5 melee
skills, Paladins get 5 too I believe. Not sure how many SK's get but I
suspect its also around 5. I could easily live with us getting 3 or 4 and
being weaker, but 2? When one of those 2 is posessed by every single class
in the game? We effectively get 1 extra melee skill while all the other
hybrids to use Verants definition get 4 extra ones.

ACK! I JUST CHECKED AND I WAS WRONG THEY ALL HAVE 6 OR 7 MELEE
SKILLS!

Everyone: Dodge
Rangers: Parry, Dual Wield, Kick, Double Attack, Riposte,
Disarm
Paladins: Parry, Bash, Double Attack, Riposte, Disarm
SK's: Parry, Bash, Double Attack, Riposte, Disarm
Bards: Dual Wield

For Completeness our supposed melee half:

Rogues: Parry, Dual Wield, Backstab, Double Attack, Riposte, Disarm

If this doesn't make it apparent that we are not anywhere close to
where the other hybrid classes are in terms of melee strength I don't know
what will.

also I checked the log of my last duel, the only one since /log. I was
stunned by the barbarian shaman 6 times in the fight. That made quite a
difference as he then proceeded to hit me for nearly max every time I was
stunned.

Kitasi

-----Original Message-----
From: Naeeldar [mailto:jackal@...]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 3:00 PM
To: eqbards@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [eqbards] Hey this sounded interesting..

From: "Naeeldar" <jackal@...>

Yah you do Shamans do not get bash as a melee skill they get it as a racial
skill and it will never go up it stays at 1 point of damage at all time. I
beleive bards also get parry but I could be wrong. Not to mention track and
some other skills from the rogue.

Naeeldar

-----Original Message-----
From: Kimes, Dean W. <Dean_Kimes@...>
To: 'eqbards@onelist.com' <eqbards@onelist.com>
Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: [eqbards] Hey this sounded interesting..

>From: "Kimes, Dean W." <Dean_Kimes@...>
>
>Every Shaman in the game has as many melee skills as we do. They all get
>Slam=Bash and Dodge. We get Dodge and Dual wield. Using that logic does
>not work, we don't get more melee skills than all casters, pure or
>otherwise.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Naeeldar [mailto:jackal@...]
>Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 2:18 PM
>To: eqbards@onelist.com
>Subject: Re: [eqbards] Hey this sounded interesting..
>
>
>From: "Naeeldar" <jackal@...>
>
>That's just the thing Verant is not usaing your definition they are using
>their definition which is a mix of class skills. Priests get none of the
>melee class skills the only skill they get is dodge for melee and the
>casting classes get that also. So like I said were not looking at it in

this

>light and neither is Verant.
>
>Naeeldar
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lange, Stephen <SLANGE@...>
>To: 'eqbards@onelist.com' <eqbards@onelist.com>
>Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:47 PM
>Subject: RE: [eqbards] Hey this sounded interesting..
>
>
>>From: "Lange, Stephen" <SLANGE@...>
>>
>>They can were armor. An item a pure caster cannot wear. That in itself
>>makes them a hybrid. Heres a simplistic example:
>>
>>Black = Caster
>>White = Melee
>>Grey = Hybrid
>>
>>A hybrid shares some of each types characteristics.
>>
>>Wizard cant wear Plate but can cast spells = Black
>>Melee Can wear Plate but cant cast spells = White
>>Hybrid can wear plate or equivalent and can cast some spells = Grey
>>
>>Classes = Grey
>> Ranger
>> Shaman
>> Cleric
>> Druid
>> Bard
>> Paladin
>> ShadowKnight
>>
>>How can this logic be refuted when looked at in this light?
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Naeeldar [mailto:jackal@...]
>>Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 10:32 PM
>>To: eqbards@onelist.com
>>Subject: Re: [eqbards] Hey this sounded interesting..
>>
>>
>>From: "Naeeldar" <jackal@...>
>>
>>Again I state why are Shamans and Clerics hybrids?
>>
>>Naeeldar
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Talies the Wanderer <snicker@...>
>>To: eqbards@onelist.com <eqbards@onelist.com>
>>Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 4:38 PM
>>Subject: RE: [eqbards] Hey this sounded interesting..
>>
>>
>>>From: Talies the Wanderer <snicker@...>
>>>
>>>At 02:16 PM 9/30/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>From: chlebek@...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Its an interesting idea. And dont make assumptions for everyone else

>>the
>>>>> list, they mayt not be sick of it.
>>>>
>>>>Let's take a vote...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Me? I'm sick of it. We are hybrids. Verant has stated again and again
>>hybrids
>>>>will not get bind. Therefore WE will not get bind.
>>>
>>>Shamans are Hybrids, though... they get bind.... Come to think of it, so
>>>are Clerics...
>>>
>>>Talies
>>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>
>>