Subject: Attempt to use Netzero account with hacked MS failing

From: "Richard Herndon" <k5fni@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 03:40:06 -0000

Okay, I'm back with another question. Assistance pliz.

I got through getting my own account set up okay (with my local
ISP...he was sitting in the room while I set it up...we didn't have
problems). I set up an account for my son (with NetZero), who will be
the eventual recipient of the test machine. I filled out the material
on the question screen (with appropriate x's where I don't want to
say):
==
User Name: xxx
Dial-Up No: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-To: xxx@...
E-Mail Address xxx@...
E-mail Password: xxxxxxxxxxxx
POP3 Server: pop.netzero.net
SMTP Server: smtp.netzero.net
ISP Account: xxx
ISP Password: xxxxxxxxxxxx
Primary DNS: 0.0.0.0
==
I dial up the long distance number (there aren't any local to Ganado
TX <G>) and get the obvious modem sounds, logging on report, then it
hangs up and says that the service is unavailable or busy.

I don't think it is busy. I'm concerned that I don't know the DNS
numbers to plug in above. (Do I need them?)
I'm also concerned that I just used the email prefix (in my case just
three letters where I've shown xxx above) for the ISP Account and User
Name information should go.

Are these correct? I'm in the dark and can't really ask the free ISP
any questions. Has anyone here actually set up a free NetZero account
and been successful? If so, PLEASE help me out.

Trying desperately to get my adult son to communicate frequently by
email, as I know he leads a busy life and doesn't always just sit by
the phone for my calls. <g>

Thanks in advance,
Rick K5FNI
Ganado TX

---

From: "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@...>
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:00:37 -0700

pop.netzero.net

and 

smtp.netzero.net

are DNS names, so presumably you will need a DNS address to resolve
them. So I think you need to put one.

Until you find it, you can try replacing the DNS names the actual IP
addresses for the pop and smtp servers:

smtp.netzero.net 64.136.29.92
pop.netzero.net  64.136.28.166

-- John.

On Fri, 2005-06-24 at 03:40 +0000, Richard Herndon wrote:
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---

From: Milt Cram <w8nue@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:26:51 -0500

> the phone for my calls. <g>
Rick,

You do need the DNS numbers for the Mailstation to work.  You should be 
able to determine them by normally logging onto NetZero with your PC.  
Then, while logged on, run IPCONFIG on the PC.  The data that then 
appears on your screen should include the DNS number for NetZero.  This 
should work unless NetZero is providing a "dynamic" DNS, which changes 
each time you log in..

Also, the ISP account and password should be the same as the email 
address and password, since you have only one account with NetZero.

Also, be aware that Mailstation is limited to 8k bytes per email.  
Consequently, no images--just text.

Hope this helps.  If you need additional info, email me back, or contact 
Curt-W4QBU (we both have Mailstation 120s).

Milt W8NUE
Austin TX

-- 
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---

From: Milt Cram <w8nue@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:45:24 -0500

Rick,

One additional note for my previous response.

When running IPCONFIG, use the /all switch (i.e. ipconfig/all) to get 
the DNS numbers.

Milt W8NUE

---

From: "Richard Herndon" <k5fni@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:44:40 -0000

> pop.netzero.net  64.136.28.166

John, et al:

I'm gonna have to quit doing stuff in the middle of the night with no
sleep. ;)

I REALLY signed him up with Juno.com instead of NetZero.net. <sigh>
I tried to follow your instructions, but got no results. Here's what I
did:
1. I fixed the account setup in the MailStation from NetZero to Juno,
though I didn't know I'd have to erase all I had in there to do so.
<sigh>
 It now reads:
==
User Name: xxx
Dial-Up No: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-To: xxx@n...
E-Mail Address xxx@n...
E-mail Password: xxxxxxxxxxxx
POP3 Server: pop.juno.com
SMTP Server: smtp.juno.com
ISP Account: xxx
ISP Password: xxxxxxxxxxxx
Primary DNS: 0.0.0.0
==

2. I tried to get the DNS entry for the POP3 server at Juno.com from
your instructions: I printed the results before connecting to Juno.com
and after and they didn't vary. I am using DSL with a WiFi
modem/router. I guess the command can't get through the router beyond
my ISP's DNS address. ?? Maybe someone else can get the address for
me. Sorry that I am unable to comply here. Lack of knowledge excels.
;)

3. I filled in the info as shown above and tried to send a test
message with the same results. Now it is possible that the thing is
actually busy, but the other time I tried it was VERY late at night.
This time it is mid-morning in Austin, where I'm calling to. Another
reason I don't think it is busy is that the device said it was
"Logging In" and the bar graph went across and the modem shut up like
it had actually connected and gotten beyond the handshaking stage.

I'm tapping my fingers on the keys and trying to have patience. It has
just been many years since I've actually had to mess with the vagaries
and frustrations of modem comms. <g> First, cable modem, then DSL have
both really spoiled me to just being confident that I can just march
in here and <zip> the machine is connected.

Thanks in advance for your help and patience.

73,
Rick K5FNI
Ganado TX

---

From: "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:44:42 -0700

> me. Sorry that I am unable to comply here. Lack of knowledge excels.

Well the IP addresses I gave will probably only work for the service you
signed up for, so ignore the previous IP addresses.

To get the DNS entry for Juno you can follow Milt's instructions. Just
follow their instructions to get it to log in to juno from windows, and
then run either ipconfig from command prompt (under Windows NT, W2K, or
XP) or winipcfg from Windows 95, 98 or ME. This will give you the DNS
address. If you have the DNS address you don't need to resolve the smtp
and pop addresses by hand.

The point of this is, smtp.juno.com and pop.juno.com are DNS names. For
the mailstation to be able to send (smtp) or receive (pop) mail, it will
have to talk to actual servers and their actual IP addresses.
smtp.juno.com and pop.juno.com are not IP addresses. They are DNS names,
and normally can be traded in to the DNS server for IP addresses. But in
the example above, your DNS server IP is 0.0.0.0 so there is no chance
of sending mail in this configuration.

Now it is possible that the Mailstation could talk to the smtp server
and pop server if it has the raw IP addresses. But it might not. Best
thing is to put the DNS IP. Second best is to try again with JUNO's mail
server addresses.

If you just want to do a test without the DNS number, you might try
resolving the pop.juno.com and smtp.juno.com on your desktop PC. Just
open a ms-dos prompt and type

ping pop.juno.com

that will give you their pop Ip address

and 

ping smtp.juno.com

I got:

PING pop.juno.com (64.136.20.167): 56 data bytes
...
PING smtp.juno.com (64.136.21.93): 56 data bytes
...

-- John.

---

From: "Neil Morrison" <neilsmorr@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:00:33 -0700

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Herndon" <k5fni@...>

> the eventual recipient of the test machine.

I suspect neither NetZero nor Juno will work. I used NetZero for a while,
but it needed a Windows computer so it could put it's banner on the screen.
Also, it was very difficult to get on as even if you had unused time there
was some sort of limit on how many free users could be on the service at
once. YMMV.

http://www.netzero.net/signup/requirements.html

http://www.juno.com/signup/requirements.html

I'd look around locally for a cheap dial up ISP and make your best deal. If
you tell them you need 5 minutes per day max for email only they may make
you a good offer.

Neil

---

From: "Richard Herndon" <k5fni@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:54:17 -0000

> PING smtp.juno.com (64.136.21.93): 56 data bytes

John,

Using both your values for the DNS, entered one at a time netted me
zero results different from last time. 

I did find an additional error pointed out to me by the firmware: the
user name I entered was erroneously entered by me as the email
address. The firmware notified me to take out the @ and try again. I
just put in my son's name this time. 

Still no worky.

I'm still appealing to someone who has had a free service work for
them with a Mailstation to get back with me here and tell me what you
did. Several folks said in the last month or so that they were going
to try a free service. Where are they? Hayelp.

John, the one problem I have with entering the two numbers is that I
don't know which to use or if there is supposed to be some general DNS
address entered. Obviously, neither works okay for Juno. <sigh>

I'm close to wit's end.

Maybe I should try another service?

73,
Rick K5FNI
Ganado TX

---

From: "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:05:27 -0700

> zero results different from last time. 

No, I didn't give you a DNS IP address. Both of those are mail server
addresses. You need to replace each mail server with the associated
address.

Where you have configured pop.juno.com instead try 64.136.20.167

Where you have configured smtp.juno.com instead try 64.136.21.93

> just put in my son's name this time. 

Gotta get it all right at once.

> address entered. Obviously, neither works okay for Juno. <sigh>

You just have to follow directions ;-)  And I need to learn to give
better ones.

Now, as I said Milt may be giving you better advice here: just get the
actual DNS address! To do this, you need to connect to Juno from a
Windows desktop as he described. Then you can find out from Windows what
the DNS server IP address after you connect to it.

Juno, netzero etc. may or may not work. But the MS probably does require
a valid DNS address, so until you've done a valid test with all
necessary parameters there's no reason to give up.

-- John.

---

From: "Richard Herndon" <k5fni@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:51:45 -0000

--- In [email-masked], "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@p...>
> Where you have configured smtp.juno.com instead try 64.136.21.93

John, I did this with no different results.

> Gotta get it all right at once.

Now what?
 
> > to try a free service. Where are they? Hayelp.

Still looking for the above folks. I'll be patient and hope they read
their mail in the next few days.

> necessary parameters there's no reason to give up.

As I reported earlier today, I do not seem to be able to do the
requested search on my machine, possibly due to it being behind a
WiFi/router. I seem to get the same DNS address whether or not I'm
logged in to Juno. Can someone else try this both ways and let me know
the address they find when logged in to Juno? With sugar on it?

Thanks,
Rick

---

From: "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:19:14 -0700

> the address they find when logged in to Juno? With sugar on it?

Hmm... are you dialing up from your machine?

What OS are you running?

You need to 

a) Connect to Juno via dialup
b) Run winipcfg (Win98) or ipconfig (NT)
c) Look for your dial up adapter... it will either be in the dump
printed by opconfig, or a drop-down selection from Win98.

You should be able to find the DNS name there.

I don't have a Windows box with a modem, or I'd do it for you myself.

-- John.

---

From: "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:24:37 -0700

> > > ISP Password: xxxxxxxxxxxx

OK, I was able to set up an account and connect to Juno from my laptop.
The DNS servers for Juno are 64.136.20.120 and 64.136.28.120

Unfortunately though I cannot get a MS (Black DET-1) to send or receive
mail through Juno. It dials, but gives the same error that you
described.

Now, I connected again to Juno, and set up Outlook Express to collect
mail. The only thing I can get from Juno is an initial message that

"Access to Juno email using an off-line email program, such as Outlook
Express, is not available to Free members."

Since the MS can't use a webmail facility, there is no way to make use
of Juno with the Free account.  Is that what you're using? If so, I
think you'll need to find another service, and probably have to pay a
little bit. Or you could use Juno, but you have to sign for one of the
paid accounts. But I don't see much point to that... you are better off
finding a low price provider on the web.

That said, if you pay a little bit it's more likely they'll be willing
to help you get the thing set up.

-- John.

---

From: "Richard Herndon" <k5fni@...>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:13:23 -0000

> Hmm... are you dialing up from your machine?

No, I was using my XP Home machine and logging in via the Web.
 
> I don't have a Windows box with a modem, or I'd do it for you myself.

I do own a Win95b Omnibook 800CT that has a PCMCIA modem. I'll try
that. I guess you finally did give better instructions. <g> I was just
flailing away with the XP box and not understanding why it didn't work
as it 'should'. Does winipcfg command work with Win95b?

Thanks for all your assistance. I've been leaving this thread on the
group, so any others having as much trouble as I'm having will see the
path we're taking to get to a (hopeful) resolution.

Rick

---

From: "Neil Morrison" <neilsmorr@...>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:30:01 -0700

http://www.lights.com/pickalink/freeisp/

http://www2.vcn.bc.ca/freenets

have info on free ISP's. I don't believe that Juno supports anything below
Windows now.

Neil