Subject: Overview of technical details known about the MailStation 120?

From: "jondkirwan" <jonk@...>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 06:48:45 -0000

I picked up a couple of MailStation 120's when they were $9/each, a while back (three years or more?)  Sitting on a shelf, so far.  I'm interested in using the LCD display, keyboard, power system (battery or wall wart) and case, of course, as part of a new homebrew device that will use a new CPU (desolder the old one, replace it.)

I didn't even know this group existed, until today.  Certainly sounds like a start was made here, though there hasn't been much traffic in about a year, now.  I just looked over some of the documentation and did find something on the LCD (in .DOC form) here.  (Probably applies to the 120, but I'm not sure yet.)  A 320x128 graphics LCD is fine for my use, if that's what it is.

What I'm looking for is the more accurate information on schematics, processor pinout and mother board signal assignments to it, etc., that might relate or help in working out a daughterboard I can use to replace the CPU unit, together with functional pin descriptions so that I can make reasoned assignments for the new drop-in CPU.  I don't need to know what the old CPU actually was, unless it relates to adapting a new one.  I just need to know the Vcc supply voltage and current compliance and any special considerations other than that.

My board apparently uses a Conexant RC224ATL modem/fax chip inside, but for now I don't plan on using it much.  I may, later on, want to use it in conjunction with PCI modem boards I still own for PC desktop computers.  But not for now.  I may instead set up a USB based custom adapter that attaches to the printer port for PC communications.  Assuming there is enough information available at this point to do much, at all.  If not, I've got enough work ahead that it will have to wait for Christmas time.

I am decidedly NOT interested in just adapting this for dialup access to existing services, using the existing software on the unit.  That is of no interest, at all.  I'll do the O/S and application software for it.

Can anyone give me a boost up on this?  Or has very little really been worked out for these, as yet?

Sorry to disturb the lull, but I'm kind of curious about the possibilities and hopeful that there may be others who can help me skip over some difficulties and who may also be interested in results I gather over time.  If it's all dead now, that's fine.  I'll just take my time and see where it takes me.

Thanks very much to all,
Jon

---

From: "cyranojones_lalp" <cyranojones_lalp@...>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:36:29 -0000

--- In [email-masked], "jondkirwan" <jonk@...> wrote:
>
> I picked up a couple of MailStation 120's when they were $9/each, 
> a while back (three years or more?)  

If you mean when Officemax blew them out, that was about 
4.5 years ago now.  Wow, time flies, huh?  :-)

>  I just looked over some of the documentation and did 
> find something on the LCD (in .DOC form) here.  
> (Probably applies to the 120, but I'm not sure yet.)  

That doc is kinda old now, it has not been updated
regarding the LCD in the "new 120" & "new 150".  
The original 120 was in a purple case, and has LCD
as described in that doc.  The "new 120" is in a dark 
grey case and has a different LCD.

> What I'm looking for is the more accurate information on
> schematics, processor pinout and mother board signal 

Did you see 
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mailstation/files/part files/RSDRD_3SI176_0A.txt

(There is supposed to be a space in "part files", in case
yahoo mangles the url and you need to paste it back together.)

> I just need to know the Vcc supply voltage and current 
> compliance and any special considerations other than that.

As far as I remember, it is 5 volt.  I dunno about current,
"low" is my guess.  :-)
 
> My board apparently uses a Conexant RC224ATL modem/fax chip 

I think that is the modem in the "new 120", and only 
2400 baud, versus 33k in the "older" models.

> Can anyone give me a boost up on this?  Or has very little 
> really been worked out for these, as yet?

I'd say quite a bit has been worked out, as far as documenting
the hardware (and software).  It's the "new development"
department that is kinda lacking!  :-)  :-)
 
> Sorry to disturb the lull

I've been meaning to create a new account, and try to post, 'coz
I was getting pretty sure the group was broked!  Now I
don't have to!  Thanks!!!

CJ

---

From: "Donald H" <donhamilton2002@...>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 16:16:55 -0000

> Sorry to disturb the lull, but I'm kind of curious about the possibilities and hopeful that there may be others who can help me skip over some difficulties and who may also be interested in results…

Hi Jon,

Great to see new blood on this project.

Replacing a 100 LQFP processor is not for the faint of heart.
Unless you are going to build a 100 LQFP adaptor, this will be very difficult.

good luck,

many will be watching.

don

---

From: Neil Morrison <neilsmorr@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 10:15:03 -0700

The general view is that it is much easier and rewarding to flash it
into what you want. That's certainly how I feel - it could replace the
Radio Shack Model 100 computer.

Neil

---

From: Jon Kirwan <jonk@...>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 06:43:26 -0700

>4.5 years ago now.  Wow, time flies, huh?  :-)

Yeah.  I had picked up two on the off-chance that I might someday want
to modify them for some other use.  In no way, at the time, did I want
them for what they were designed for.  What appealed to me about them
was the case, battery section, keyboard, display, and D25 connector in
the back.  It's all there, convenient.  Also, I might have considered
scavaging the power supply circuits.  Mainly, I knew up front I wanted
to replace the CPU with something having a fair bit of flash and some
ram, yet capable of very low power operation (tens of microamps for
average duty.)

>grey case and has a different LCD.

Looks like you got my two nailed.  Thanks for the clue.

>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mailstation/files/part files/RSDRD_3SI176_0A.txt

Yes, I hit on that one a few hours ago.  It wasn't clear whether it
applied in my case.

>As far as I remember, it is 5 volt.  I dunno about current,

I'd guess low, too.

>2400 baud, versus 33k in the "older" models.

Yes, it's 2400 limited.  So the earlier ones used the trellis style
modems.  Nice.  I designed a 2400 bps, years (nah, decades) ago. Never
tried my hand at the fancy trellis stuff, though.

>department that is kinda lacking!  :-)  :-)

Nothing new happening?

I'd like to get complete specs on the various peripheral components
that exist surrounding the micro.  I'd like to get the datasheet on
the micro, itself, so that I can see what internal peripheral support
it has and how it is attached to the rest.  I'd like to get the
protocols used for the LCD (does it have it's own controllers?  if so,
which?  if not, what are the details for the LCD in terms of timing
diagrams and the like?)  Etc.

Here's what I want eventually to do.  I've two things in mind (one is
a BASIC interpreter and using the printer port for an I/O bus for
extender boards.)  Both depend on getting a decent, modern development
setup for it, though.  So for now, the main thing is to design a
daughter board to replace the existing cpu.  Or else get some
convincing evidence that I should just keep it there.

It might be smarter for me to first use SDCC with the existing system
until I gain enough experience with it.  But right now, I'm not sure
how to proceed there.  I gather already that the CPU core is Z80-like,
but that doesn't tell me a great deal by itself.  (I used to do a lot
of 8080 and 8085 programming before the Z80 even existed and got my
hands on Z80 assembly work with the TRS-80, memory serving.)  I have
SDCC loaded, already, and integrated into the SiLabs IDE for
compilation, right now.  I can use it with a DOS box, though.  Anyway,
how does compiled output (hex files, perhaps?) get burned into the
system?  Is there a mechanism that's been worked out and works well?
What hardware tools are involved in that?  Etc.

If I do this way first, it will allow me a 'slow ramp' into
understanding the hardware details more intimately, before deciding if
I should jump off the cliff and place another CPU in there.  An
extremely low power one would be the MSP430 (has extremely good start
up from sleep times) or some of the newer PICs or even the SiLab parts
(one I'm using now is about the only thing going for a decent 1MHz
16-bit SAR ADC no matter what family you want to talk about.)  Atmel
has some interesting parts, as well.  And there are many, many ARM
choices -- though most suck a little too much power for my taste.  I
like things under 2mA on the CPU when it is running full out and under
10uA with a decent timer or two plus brown-out and a comparator
running.  So that drops ARMs out, mostly.  But I love the parts
because of the great compiler support from gcc.

Anyway, I started to read today.  I suppose I can slog through on my
own, if you assure me a lot is out there to read.  But if you can
point me faster, I'd sure appreciate that a lot.  The faster I figure
out the barriers, the faster I can get going.

Also, do you know where one can pick up more of these new 120's?  Or
new 150's?  Cheap!  I picked up two at $5 and I just found another I
can get at the same price, still in the box.  But if I do this, I
might want to make 100 or so.  (School stuff, teaching tool of sorts.)
Since I'd give them away, they need to be cheap.  If you know of any
nice stockpile of them that hasn't been ground into powder already and
where the owner might consider getting at least 'something' rather
than having to pay for garbage disposal to get back the shelf space,
I'd like to know about it.

Thanks for the quick response!

Jon

---

From: Jon Kirwan <jonk@...>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:32:35 -0700

>Replacing a 100 LQFP processor is not for the faint of heart.

100 pins isn't that scary.  It would be the spacing that might bother
me more.  If it were a BGA, that would be a problem, and I'd
definitely have to hire it out.  But it's not.

100 pins, eh?

>Unless you are going to build a 100 LQFP adaptor, this will be very difficult.

I was thinking about having a small board built for the purpose that
would align with the existing footprint.

Of course, I'm also interested in just learning the board peripherals,
first.  It's probably smarter to start there.  May turn out that I'm
fine with that, alone.

Thanks,
Jon

---

From: Jon Kirwan <jonk@...>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:36:08 -0700

>Radio Shack Model 100 computer.

That sounds like a sane approach.  As I earlier wrote, "It might be
smarter for me to first use SDCC with the existing system until I gain
enough experience with it."  So I guess that's your advice, too.

Thanks.  And thanks, all.
Jon

P.S.  Still looking for responses on some of the other questions I
asked.

---

From: "cyranojones_lalp" <cyranojones_lalp@...>
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:26:05 -0000

> Looks like you got my two nailed.  Thanks for the clue.

Which are they?

> >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mailstation/files/part%20files/RSDRD_3SI176_0A.txt
> 

Yes.

> Nothing new happening?

Someone was working on getting CP/M going, but as you noted,
there has been no traffic on list in last year.

And it's been over a year since I did anything on this project.

I was working up a c header to use the mailstation rom
functions that I had figured out (and I figured out
quite a bit, if I do say so myself!)   :-)

It's in file section, under "Mailstation Toolkit".

I have some stuff I didn't upload, in particular a 
perl script I was working on, to convert resource strings 
& graphics into format that works with the mailstation 
lib functions.  You just link the resource data with
your c code, using sdcc.

And I was working on a makefile to compile mailstation 
apps with sdcc.

> ...

I am pretty sure that everything known about the hardware is
in the file area, in particular the "part files" folder.

Also, there is a list of known models in the group's database 
section, where some of the differences are documented.

There are manufacturer datasheets for representative codeflash,
dataflash, and ram chips, and a few on some of the modems.
There are notes on the cpu, lcd, and keyboard, where we never 
found actual datasheets.  AFAICT, they are good enough, and
not having actual datasheets is not holding anything back.

I suppose the main thing lacking is data on the blue LCD.

The mailstation models are all quite similar (except 350).  
The differences I can think of off hand are:
 Various manufacturers of memory chips.
 Ergonomic models have a slightly different keyboard matrix.
 120 & 150 both were made with two kinds of LCD.
 Caller ID chip only in white/cream colored units.
 Various modem chips (diff speeds)
 250 has cordless phone chipset.
 Probably at least 20 different firmware versions.

The similarities (except 350, and diff noted above):
 One Megabyte codeflash.
 512 KByte dataflash.
 128 KByte ram.
 All have same cpu (z80 inst set).
 Port & Memory Maps are all the same.
 320 x 128 monochrome LCD (but 2 diff types exist).
 Parallel port.

I'm just going from memory, and it has been a few years.
Perhaps I remember it wrong in some cases???
 
> convincing evidence that I should just keep it there.

My feeling is that it would be quite hard to replace the cpu,
and if you did, you would have a powerful cpu with a tiny monochrome
LCD (not even grayscale).  Perhaps you could program the  ms as a
terminal for more powerful processor?  Bear in mind what you
can buy a netbook, or used notebook for.

By the way, the cpu is 128 pins, and small enough to hide under a dime.
I can't think of an easy (and good, and cheap) way to connect a 
sub-board.  But you could put new cpu inside case, and still connect 
it as a terminal (fewer wires).

> What hardware tools are involved in that?  Etc.

The most recent method I used involved poking a few bytes into
dataflash with ms built-in hex-editor, and loading a larger
block of code into the ms splash-screen file with "mailbug", a
debugger for ms that I wrote (in file section).  The code entered
via hex-editor is in location ms uses for "loadable apps", and
when you run that short "app", it jumps to the larger block in the 
splash-screen area of the dataflash.

I'm a little fuzzy on exactly the steps, but I used the code in
splash-screen to load another app into the app area of the
dataflash.  This one shows up with an icon in the ms menu,
and it interfaces with mailbug to load other apps.
Since it is in dataflash, it is persistent (I didn't
have to go thru this whole procedure every time I loaded 
a new program.)

So, then I could click on this "bootloader" icon in ms menu,
and then load hex files over a laplink cable, using
mailbug on the PC end.

I didn't write a bootloader to load directly to dataflash.
I was loading apps into ms ram with mailbug, executing them, 
then a small piece of code included in app copied the app 
from ram to another empty app slot in dataflash.  Whew!  
But it worked!!!  :-)

Oh yeah, I executed at a special entrypoint to run the 
"install" code, which would call ms firmware to copy the
ram image to the dataflash.  After it had been copied 
to dataflash, when running the loaded app from the ms menu, 
app would start from the normal entrypoint (iow, the first byte).

Earlier methods involved overwriting the codeflash with
similar bootloader, but that killed the ms for normal
operation as a mailstation.

The process is documented somewhere in file section, or
possibly in a message post (almost 2 yrs ago, aprrox).
I'll see if I can find it, if I ever finish reading/responding 
to this message. ;-)

One thing on my todo list (that I did not do yet) was to make
a simpler command-line loader that could run from the
makefile, when you did "make program", so I could compile
and load from ide, without needing separate mailbug prog.

When I was working under windows, I used the winavr IDE.
Lately I am using Ubuntu, where at first I used 
"gedit" as IDE, but recently I found "geany" which I 
really like.  It is somewhat similar to winavr's 
"programmers notepad", in that it is based on same 
editor engine.  But it seems like a more polished 
program, with more features (better find command, 
for one).  

> because of the great compiler support from gcc.

Perhaps the reason the ARM sucks up more power running full speed
is because full speed on ARM is a lot faster than the others???

I don't know much about MSP430 other than it is a popular choice.
I like AVRs, mostly because I am comfortable with avr-gcc.
I have an itch to learn more about ARM, but so far have not
used any of them.  PICs are popular, but I can't figure out
just why.  I have been avoiding PICs, and intend to continue
avoiding.

> out the barriers, the faster I can get going.

Gosh, I can't assure you there's "a lot".  My feeling is there is
a lot of crud to wade through!  And by "crud", I mean a lot of 
yammering about using the mailstation for email.  ;^)

If you notice any outright spam still there, jot down the msg#.  
The file sections I mentioned probably have higher signal-to-noise 
ratio than most of the message archive.
There probably is some code in the message archive that is not
in the files, but whether it is important, I dunno.

I don't think fyberoptic put his stuff in yahoo group files, so
you might look for his url.  Or google [fyberoptic mailstation].
His stuff was oriented towards running code from ram, more like a
desktop computer (and without ms code), while my stuff was aimed 
at running from flash, like an embedded-system (and running 
under mailstations "OS").

> can get at the same price, still in the box.  

That's the best deal I've heard of.  They are on ebay regularly, but
usually at least $10 with shipping.  I imagine you could get several
per week for under $20.  But not for $5, and not 100 at a time.

> But if I do this, I

I have a closet full, but I am not looking to dump them.  My 
girlfriend likes to tease me about them... Hey!!! You're not
really her playing a joke, are you???  :-)

> Thanks for the quick response!

No problem.

I set the group to "new users moderated" several months ago,
and you are the first (besides a couple spammers) to post
under that setting.  I thought it was supposed to automatically
turn moderation off when first post was approved, but for
some reason your messages this morning (uh, yesterday morn now)
still went into mod folder.  I'll see if I can change it 
manually if any more go there.

CJ

---

From: Neil Morrison <neilsmorr@...>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:02:08 -0700

From my point of view, two things would be ideal:

1) Some sort of set up where an email could be sent to the MS which
would 'unlock' any model from EarthLink and let you use any dial up
ISP.

2) A hardware system which would let you flash the ROM to add or alter
functionality and make any model much more useful.

My concern now, having been through this before, is that EarthLink
will junk all of the documentation etc for these and it will be lost
forever. They still do support these but for how much longer?

http://kb.earthlink.net/case.asp?article=10041

Neil

---

From: Jon Kirwan <jonk@...>
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:14:37 -0700

>would 'unlock' any model from EarthLink and let you use any dial up

That already exists for my model, the 'new' 120.  I used some
instructions I found and they worked perfectly on my unit.  (Well, to
be honest, I dropped my dial-up service back in 2005 and don't now
have a site where I can test it, but all the fields are available for
editing on my unit right now.  So it does appear I can set things up.)
I had to follow some 'wierd' instructions that forced me to flip out
my batteries at an exact moment, but it worked great to reset the
device and get it into a totally new boot mode.

>functionality and make any model much more useful.

Yes.  That's something I would expect as a first step.  I take it,
that hasn't been done, yet.

>http://kb.earthlink.net/case.asp?article=10041

I'm not much interested in using these with Earthlink or any other
dial-up service.  Too much pain/cost there.  Dialup is likely to go
away, completely, anyway.  It costs a lot to maintain the phone banks,
modems, etc., and people are moving towards cell phones as their
primary phone service, as well.  How many more years it will last, I
don't know.  But there is a lot of financial pressure, I bet, to dump
it entirely.

I would like to support a USB connection to the computer for file
exchange (make it appear like a FAT-file memory stick to the PC.)  And
set up a bootstrap that would allow me to specify boot parameters for
loading specific files from the flash file system on startup.
Something akin to the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT of DOS days, I
suppose.  That would be convenient enough that anyone could use it.
The other option, as you mention, is hardware for flashing directly.
Start there, work towards the USB solution, I suppose.

So nothing much has been done along these lines, I gather.

Jon

---

From: "Donald H" <donhamilton2002@...>
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:29:04 -0000

Hi Jon,

The Mail Station is just a toy that has been fun, but now is obsoleted by 32 bit Wireless devices.

The amount of work is not really a problem.

Its the amount of return.

I have looked at replacing the main board with something else.

I measured out the main board in one of my wrecked machines to use the LCD, keyboard and power supply connections.

I figured it would cost about $200-400 just to get something running.

For less than $100 I got a ZipIt wireless device.
That killed the Mail Station for me.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/zipitwireless/

So, I am sorry if I spoiled your fun.

don

---

From: Jon Kirwan <jonk@...>
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:03:27 -0700

>So, I am sorry if I spoiled your fun.

Actually, that's a great reference and not a problem, at all.  I'm
glad you mentioned it.

I still would like to play around with the 120 some more (and I will,
I think, if I can get sufficiently educated to do something sensible
with it.)

Thanks,
Jon

---

From: Jon Kirwan <jonk@...>
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:14:40 -0700

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:29:04 -0000, you wrote:

><snip>
><snip>

Oh, my.  A full-sized keyboard is pretty much a requirement in my
case.  Are these as tiny as they look??  And they seem to use backlit
color screens, nowadays.  Power consumption is probably off the charts
for me.  Interesting, though.

Jon

---

From: "Neil Morrison" <neilsmorr@...>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 18:44:39 -0700

Can you type a novel on a ZipIt for 20 hours while flying over the Pacific? With a pocket full of AA cells you're good to go with a modified Mailstation.

Neil

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald H 

Hi Jon,

don

---

From: "Donald H" <donhamilton2002@...>
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 04:06:27 -0000

> Can you type a novel on a ZipIt for 20 hours while flying over the Pacific? With a pocket full of AA cells you're good to go with a modified Mailstation.

You are correct, I wanted a email machine.

You need a novel keeper.

don