Subject: The President Speaks.

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 02:25:50 GMT

I have just watched the President of the United States of America
address the Australian Parliament.
In fairness I must say that it is the best speech I have ever heard
him make.   Which leads me to wonder whether the cutting by  the media
and the presentation of 'snippets' of political speeches, really
reflects the actual content of the them.  Taking perhaps much of it
out of context.   This time I saw it as it was happening....
The Opposition did not wear white armbands but chose to present a
letter to Mr Bush.
Two senators did interject and were removed from the House by the
seargent at arms....they  returned  after the speech finished  and Mr
Bush was shaking hands with various senators....they were ejected a
second time.
Mr Bush did receive a standing ovation - but I personally think it was
an off-the-cuff remark that gave him the edge.  During the second
interjection he grinned and said...."I love free speech"...... this
remark was met with a most enthusiastic and spontaneous  round of
applause and one could almost feel the tension in the house relax.
Whether you approve of him or not....he undeniably acquitted himself
well.
 The content was neither more nor less than was expected dealing as it
did with the war in Iraq, the fight against terrorism and the long and
historic association between Australia and the US.
A nice touch was the naming of the SAS Sergeant who was killed in
Afghanistan and the announcement that he would be laying a wreath in
his honour this afternoon.

Just thought you would like to get an Australian point of view...

jingles

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From: "Yoj" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 02:35:47 GMT

"jingles" <[email-masked]> wrote in message
news:[email-masked]...
> Just thought you would like to get an Australian point of view...

I certainly appreciate this view, Jingles.  Of course all his speeches
are written for him.  He probably has a team of writers, and some of
them write better speeches than others.  His speeches definitely
approved after the September 11 attacks.  I suspect a number of factors
were involved.  In the past, I don't think he particularly cared if he
got a word or two wrong, which resulted in some pretty funny bloopers.
All of a sudden, things were dead serious, and he decided to pay
attention.  Also, someone suggested that his speech writers learned to
modify the speeches according to his normal vocabulary, rather than
throwing in a lot of words he isn't comfortable using.  At any rate, I'm
glad he acquitted himself well while away from home.

Joy

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From: Paul Conley <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:58:41 -0700

Bush no more wrote that speech than I wrote the Declaration of
Independence.

Paul

jingles wrote:

> him make.

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:16:43 GMT

>Bush no more wrote that speech than I wrote the Declaration of

I am quite aware of that Paul....but he did deliver it  and the off
-the-cuff remark was not written into the script....because the
interjection could not have been anticipated....
In Australia we like to feel that credit is given where credit is
due....
Shakespeare wrote the Merchant of Venice,  but it is the actor who
gets the accolades....

jingles

---

From: "Oh Well" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:25:52 -0500

Geeze you liberals, how 'bout cutting us a little slack.  Your complaints about President Bush's speech can be applied to all presidents at least in the modern era.  We (conservatives) know how you feel about any of us, but don't make it so obvious, ok.

Your imagination and intelligence is not showing.

Oh Well..........

jingles <[email-masked]> wrote in message news:[email-masked]...
| On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:58:41 -0700, Paul Conley <[email-masked]>
| wrote:
| 
| >Bush no more wrote that speech than I wrote the Declaration of
| >Independence.
| >
| >Paul
| 
| I am quite aware of that Paul....but he did deliver it  and the off
| -the-cuff remark was not written into the script....because the
| interjection could not have been anticipated....
| In Australia we like to feel that credit is given where credit is
| due....
| Shakespeare wrote the Merchant of Venice,  but it is the actor who
| gets the accolades....
| 
| jingles
| 
| 
| >
| >
| >jingles wrote:
| >
| >> I have just watched the President of the United States of America
| >> address the Australian Parliament.
| >> In fairness I must say that it is the best speech I have ever heard
| >> him make.
| >
|

---

From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:12:16 +0100

Oh Well <[email-masked]> wrote
>Geeze you liberals, how 'bout cutting us a little slack.  Your complaints about 
>President Bush's speech can be applied to all presidents at least in the modern 
>era.  We (conservatives) know how you feel about any of us, but don't make it so 
>obvious, ok.
>
Here we go again.........

(I bet you wish you hadn't bothered, Jingles).  :-)
-- 
Gordon

---

From: [email-masked] (Olly Mensch)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:37:55 -0400 (EDT)

jingles - I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate your kind and
objective desciption of Bush's speech in Australia.
Bush does have a lot of dissent , including in our own country here, as
well as in yours, and all across Europe.  Whether his policies are good
or not will probably be debated until long after he is gone.  I have
mixed feelings about it, but am NOT one of the Bush bashers.
Incidentally, he does have a very nice, quick, spontaneous sense of
humor.  He is not a very good speaker, but his prepared speeches are, of
course, someone else's writing, and his thoughts.==It is so refreshing
to run into someone (you!) who is able to take a step back, and arrive
at a fair judgement.
Olly

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From: [email-masked] (Olly Mensch)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:40:12 -0400 (EDT)

Paul - no one claims that Bush wrote that speech; All public figures
have speech writers.  Yet, obviously, those speeches are read and
approved or not, by the speaker.====Olly

---

From: [email-masked] (Olly Mensch)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:42:34 -0400 (EDT)

Gordon - au contraire - - as you once said - - I, for one, am so glad
she did bother, since it was a very fair and unbiased
observation.====Olly

---

From: Paul Conley <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:25:29 -0700

jingles,

I would never be foolish enough to enter into a dispute with the
'godmother' of this group. You're too precious.

As Bush, however, was making his "I love freedom of speech!" remark, it
should noted that the person speaking out against him was being
physcially removed from the hall.

Paul

---

From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:04:10 +0100

Paul Conley <[email-masked]> wrote
>physcially removed from the hall.
Quite!    That is not free speech, it is the suppression of it.

Did anyone hear what the heckler said?
-- 
Gordon

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From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:03:25 GMT

>(I bet you wish you hadn't bothered, Jingles).  :-)

"Once there was a little old ram,
Thought he'd bust a hole in a dam,
Nothing could make that  ram scram
He kept butting that  dam..
'Cos he had high hopes, high hopes,
Hi apple pie in the sky hopes...
So when your feeling low, 'stead of letting go,
Just remember that ram........"

jingles courtesy of der bingle....(I think)

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:04:16 GMT

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:42:34 -0400 (EDT), [email-masked] (Olly

>she did bother, since it was a very fair and unbiased

Thank you Olly.....

jingles

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:25:45 GMT

>'godmother' of this group. You're too precious.

Never been called 'godmother' before...but quite a number of other
things....some quite uncomplimentary.....but I have survived....
The word 'precious' has many meanings....the one I prefer is
'valuable' but I think I may be flattering myself if I take this to be
your intention.

>physcially removed from the hall.

To interject when a member of Parliament has the floor is a
discourtesy...regardless of  who the speaker is or who the interjector
is.... it calls primarily for a warning....and subsequently the member
is removed from the Chamber.
The President was a guest of the House and he had the floor....the
same courtesy should have been extended to him .. as would be extended
to anybody else.
It is permitted to state one's case in the correct manner....and at
the appropriate time....once the Speaker of the House recognises the
member .  If there were no rules of behaviour the place would be
bedlam with everybody yelling and nobody listening.  
Senator Bob Brown was in the wrong behaving as he did....it was a
discourteous act.   He could have submitted his  'unhappiness' to the
President in a letter as did the Leader of the Opposition, but of
course he wouldn't have got the TV coverage.
Yes! there were demonstrations.....the War in Iraq is not
popular....my post simply covered the President's speech which was
well delivered... not the Policies of the US.
As I said before....credit where credit is due.....he performed in an
admirable fashion....and carried off the interjection with aplomb that
won  him a round of applause....Finish!

The Godmother <grin>

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:32:50 GMT

>Did anyone hear what the heckler said?

Yes!  as I said we had a full coverage from the House.   Bob Brown had
made his intentions know that he was seeking the release of the two
Australian residents who are being held in custody....the wife of one
of them was also present in the House....a second Senator endeavoured
to force a letter on the President while he was shaking hands I
understand it was from the wife of one of the prisoners.....
It was also noted by the press that a number of Senators did not rise
to their feet for the standing ovation....but did applaud.

jingles  - who almost wishes she had kept her mouth shut <grin>

---

From: "Jan Lancaster" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 04:08:48 +0000 (UTC)

"jingles" <[email-masked]> wrote in message
news:[email-masked]...
> jingles courtesy of der bingle....(I think)

Are you refering to our Gordon as a ram? <hg>

>^..^<
*****

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 04:36:44 GMT

>Are you refering to our Gordon as a ram? <hg>

Nope! just likening some immovable objects to  the 'dam'....<grin>

jingles

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From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:41:55 +0100

jingles <[email-masked]> wrote
>jingles courtesy of der bingle....(I think)
"Whoops! there goes a billion kilowatt dam"! 
-- 
Gordon

---

From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:44:14 +0100

Jan Lancaster <[email-masked]> wrote
>Are you refering to our Gordon as a ram? <hg>
I'm not a ram, I'm a ramma-ramma-dingdong.......
-- 
Gordon

---

From: "Bob Thomas" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:29:39 GMT

"Yoj" <[email-masked]> wrote in message
news:[email-masked]...
> are written for him.

The last president who wrote his own speeches was Abraham Lincoln.

cheers

bob

---

From: "Bob Thomas" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:29:43 GMT

> out of context.

I suspect that's true of most reporting.  There's limited time and sometimes
one's own opinions are part of the selection, not necessarily purposeful.

In point of fact, most of the reporting about the war on terror suffers from
a media problem.  It is not, I think, so very much any media bias, but the
nature of the news.  A thousand schools open on the same day a bomb
explodes.  Which gets covered?   Sensationalism sells newspapers and gets
ratings for news programs.

 This time I saw it as it was happening....
> Just thought you would like to get an Australian point of view...
Thank you for the nice words.

cheers

bob

---

From: "Jan Lancaster" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:09:23 +0000 (UTC)

> I'm not a ram, I'm a ramma-ramma-dingdong.......

oo ee oo ah ah ......

*****

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:37:57 GMT

>"Whoops! there goes a billion kilowatt dam"! 
"Once there was a little old ant,
Thought he'd move a rubber tree plant,
Everyone knows an ant, cant, move a rubber tree plant

But he had high hopes, high hopes
High apple pie in the sky hopes,
So if you're feeling down,
Don't you start to frown
Just remember that ant........"

jingles

---

From: "Yoj" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:57:00 GMT

"Jan Lancaster" <[email-masked]> wrote in message
news:[email-masked]...
> oo ee oo ah ah ......

ting tang walla walla bing-bang

Joy

---

From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:10:27 +0100

Yoj <[email-masked]> wrote
>ting tang walla walla bing-bang
Don Lang* and the Frantic Five:
"My Friend the Witch-doctor"

*aka Don Langhorn, Ted Heath's trombonist, unless I'm mistaken...
-- 
Gordon

---

From: "Jan Lancaster" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:30:50 +0000 (UTC)

"Yoj" <[email-masked]> wrote in message
news:[email-masked]...
> ting tang walla walla bing-bang

Thank God. . .  It's not only me. :-))

*****

---

From: "Jan Lancaster" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:39:21 +0000 (UTC)

> Just remember that ant........"

You two should make a demo,
you sound good together. ;-)

*****

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 01:07:55 GMT

>you sound good together. ;-)

I am sure we could  make beaurtiful music together,,(grin)

jingles

"You and me can we be buddies,
You and me can we be friends,..."

---

From: Jan <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:03:57 -0400

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 02:25:50 GMT, [email-masked] (jingles)

>Just thought you would like to get an Australian point of view...
Jingles,
Testing a new sig file and passing on another description of the
speech which I found on a UK group.  Any comments? I left your
original in for comparison.
By Kathy Marks in Sydney
24 October 2003

President George Bush was jeered and heckled yesterday during an
address to the Australian parliament, in which he thanked the nation
for its support in the war against Iraq.

President Bush defended the American-led military action, claiming it
was vindicated by the discovery in Iraq of secret biological
laboratories and design work on prohibited long-range missiles.

He said: "America, Australia and other nations acted in Iraq to remove
a grave and gathering danger, instead of wishing and waiting while
tragedy drew closer."

Mr Bush hailed the Australian people for helping the US to "advance
the ideals of democracy and freedom".

The people, though, were unable to hear him deliver those compliments
unless they switched on their television sets. As part of a massive
security operation to protect Mr Bush, they were shut out of
Parliament House for the first time in the country's history.

With the public gallery closed, the job of expressing the anti-war
sentiments of a substantial minority of Australians fell to two
maverick senators, Bob Brown and Kerry Nettle. The pair, both members
of the Green Party, were ejected from the chamber. Interrupted by them
for the second time, Mr Bush said, smiling between gritted teeth: "I
love free speech."

Australia, which has fought alongside the US in every war of the past
century, was one of the few countries to send troops to Iraq. Mr Bush
praised the "bravery and skill" of its military, and described John
Howard, the Prime Minister, as "a leader of except-ional courage".

Mr Howard saluted "the character and the strength and the leadership
of the man we welcome today". Among those listening to the mutual
backslapping was Ahmed Habib, 18, whose father, Mamdouh, is one of two
Australians detained in the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay,
Cuba. Mr Habib, in parliament as a guest of the Greens, was also
thrown out, after shouting: "Hey Bush, what about my dad?"

Only 2,000 or so demonstrators turned up, and they were kept 100 yards
away, almost out of earshot.

They were given permission to use microphones, but only if they
pointed the speakers away from the building. Inside, most people
listened politely and clapped- even opposition MPs, who had threatened
to turn their backs on the President.

Mr Bush, who spent just 20 hours in Australia, his final stop on a
whirlwind tour of Asia, added: "The terrorists cannot be appeased.
They must be found, and they must be fought, and they must be
defeated."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/australasia/story.jsp?story=456627

Jan

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From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 02:44:27 GMT

>for its support in the war against Iraq.

Some media exageration here....Bob Brown interjected twice.....
>laboratories and design work on prohibited long-range missiles.
Correct....
>the ideals of democracy and freedom".

Correct...
>Parliament House for the first time in the country's history.

It was the responsibility of the Australian Government to take
appropriate action to protect the person of the President of the
United States....
A complete coverage was provided live on television....
>for the second time, Mr Bush said, smiling between gritted teeth: "I

I would have hardley described it as between 
'gritted teeth'  his words and actions earned him a round of applause.
>Howard, the Prime Minister, as "a leader of except-ional courage".

And rightly so.....
>thrown out, after shouting: "Hey Bush, what about my dad?"

Although I watched and listened to the entire coverage, I confess that
I did not hear this interjection......this does not mean that it did
not occur....

jingles

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From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:30:17 +0100

>you sound good together. ;-)
A video?  In some sun-drenched paradise?
-- 
Gordon

---

From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:33:54 +0100

Jan <[email-masked]> wrote
>for its support in the war against Iraq.
[....]
>for the second time, Mr Bush said, smiling between gritted teeth: "I
Interesting to hear another point of view.   ;-)

Free speech?
-- 
Gordon

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From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:25:57 GMT

>A video?  In some sun-drenched paradise?

Hang on while I grab my bathers and sun tan lotion...<grin>

jingles

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From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:31:12 GMT

>Interesting to hear another point of view.   ;-)

A dicey one this Gordon......

\"Whether 'tis nobler in the mind  to close the public gallery
and ensure the safety of the Head of another country,
Or  open it and risk him being abused and possibly physically
attacked.....Aye! there's the rub..."

jingles

---

From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:33:06 +0100

>Hang on while I grab my bathers and sun tan lotion...<grin>

Sorry!  I got eight email offers without bathers!

Another time maybe..... 
-- 
Gordon

---

From: Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:43:19 +0100

>attacked.....Aye! there's the rub..."
How many British Prime Ministers have been the victims of assassination,
and how many attempts.   I can only remember one - the Brighton bombing
attempt on Maggie Thatcher.

How many American presidents?  Lincoln, Kennedy......?

In which country were they assassinated.

Ahh!  There's the rub!  have any been killed on foreign soil?
-- 
Gordon

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:25:44 GMT

>Sorry!  I got eight email offers without bathers!

But isn't the best always kept under the counter? <grin>

jingles

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From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:27:41 GMT

>Ahh!  There's the rub!  have any been killed on foreign soil?

But how many of them have visited Australia?

jingles

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From: "Yoj" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:36:03 GMT

"Gordon" <[email-masked]> wrote in message
news:[email-masked]...
> Interesting to hear another point of view.   ;-)

Free speech can be interpreted more than one way, in which case somebody
has to decide which interpretation applies in a particular case.  I
would hope that in the United States we would show the same courtesy to
a guest speaker from another country, allowing the guest the freedom of
finishing his (or her) speech without interruption.  There are many
forums in both our countries for protesters to speak freely.  I say,
onya! to those who decided our President (misguided though he may be)
should be allowed to finish his speech.

Joy

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:51:53 GMT

>should be allowed to finish his speech.

When our Prime Minister visited America he was given a cordial welcome
by the President and hosted graciously.  His speech was listened to
with a courteous attention and he received a standing ovation.
The least we can do as Australians when hosting the President of the
United State is behave accordingly.
Protestors were not denied their right to protest....they assembled in
the streets...that they were kept at a distance from the President was
as it should be in the light of some of the behaviour that was seen on
the TV coverage.....

jingles

---

From: "Jan Lancaster" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:44:11 +0000 (UTC)

> >attempt on Maggie Thatcher.

Spencer Perceval assassinated in the lobby of the HoC
in 1812. John Bellingham was hanged within the week.
Think there were a couple of attempts on other PMs but can't remember off
the top of my head.

*****

---

From: Mike Clayton <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:58:59 +0000

In message <[email-masked]>, Jan Lancaster 
<[email-masked]> writes
>Think there were a couple of attempts on other PMs but can't remember off

Didn't the IRA lob a mortar bomb or two at number 10 a year or so ago? 
I assume that they intended harm to the PM and were not just doing it to 
be annoying :-)
-- 
Mike Clayton
Reputation is what other people know about you. Honour is what you know about
yourself. Lois McMaster Bujold, "A Civil Campaign", 1999
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike_clayton

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From: [email-masked] (Olly Mensch)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:54:52 -0500 (EST)

jingles - - you are the best!!
Olly

---

From: [email-masked] (jingles)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:44:36 GMT

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:54:52 -0500 (EST), [email-masked] (Olly

>jingles - - you are the best!!
Thank you again Olly.....I know we don't always see eye to eye....but
that is the way it is in an open forum...

jingles

---

From: "Jan Lancaster" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:11:20 +0000 (UTC)

> I assume that they intended harm to the PM and were not just doing it to

Forgot about that . . . never was into modern history <g>

*****

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From: Mike Clayton <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:34:43 +0000

In message <[email-masked]>, Jan Lancaster 
<[email-masked]> writes
>Forgot about that . . . never was into modern history <g>

Forget about what? <ebg>