Subject: Soldier suicides in Iraq/Positive picture campaign re Iraq

From: "Barbara Christian" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:15:22 +1000

"Army probes soldier suicides:
Alarmed by the number of suicides among soldiers in Iraq, the Army has asked
a team of doctors to determine whether the stress of combat and long
deployments is contributing to the deaths. In the past seven months, at
least 11 soldiers and three Marines have committed suicide in Iraq, military
officials say. That is an annual rate of 17 per 100,000.The numbers suggest
the rate in Iraq is above normal."

For full article:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-10-13-army-suicides-usat_x.htm

This contrasts with this propaganda stunt:
"Many soldiers, same letter. Newspapers around U.S. get identical missives
from Iraq. They appear to be part of a campaign to present a positive
picture of US occupation."
For full article:
http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20031011/frontpage/121390.shtml

Bobbie

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From: Eugene A. Calame <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:07:56 -0500

>From the article
------------------------------
In the past seven months, at least 11 soldiers and three Marines have committed
suicide in Iraq, military officials say. That is an annual rate of 17 per
100,000. The Navy also is investigating one possible suicide. And about a dozen
other Army deaths are under investigation and could include suicides.

The numbers suggest the rate in Iraq is above normal. Last year, the military
services reported 8 to 9 suicides per 100,000 people. The Army rate is usually
higher, 10 to 13 per 100,000. That mirrors the rate for the same age group in
the general population
-------------------------------

The numbers given indicates the suicide rate for the Army has doubled from about
1 per month per 100,000 in normal times to 2 for those stationed in Iraq.

I would be surprised if the suicide rate of Army personal was not higher in Iraq
than it is at home and normal times. 

>http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20031011/frontpage/121390.shtml
 
My reading of the article in The Olympian indicates that most of the soldiers
contracted by GNS (GANNETT NEWS SERVICE ) confirmed the content of the letter.

-- 
Eugene A. Calame    [email-masked]
Austin, Texas USA   

Please ask your ISP to add the newsgroup alt.misc.friends

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From: Jan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:45:22 -0400

>>the rate in Iraq is above normal."

Eugene,
  I find it rather disconcerting that you would blithely accept the
peace-time suicide rate within the US armed forces and then go on to
say you would be surprised if that rate did not rise in Iraq. 
The numbers on their own offer no information.  What would be
informative would be a break-down of these figures into how many
suicides are regular force and how many are from the reserves.
  If the majority are from the regular force then I would say that
your country has a major problem on its hands. If the majority are
from the reserve force, then there are several possibilities.
Why, in your opinion, would service in Iraq prompt an increase in
suicides?

>contracted by GNS (GANNETT NEWS SERVICE ) confirmed the content of the letter.
Regarding the letters. To my mind this is a blatant propaganda stunt,
instigated by the colonel to enhance his own reputation.  Similar to
the pathetic 'rescue' of America's latest 'heroine' Jessica Lynch.  An
episode that has made the US military the laughing-stock of the
civilized world.

Jan
"If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined"

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From: Eugene A. Calame <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:17:39 -0500

>Why, in your opinion, would service in Iraq prompt an increase in

I accept what is so.  We live in a world where suicide is a fact.  Nothing I can
do will change that fact nor can I really understand it. 

In war stress and the handling of fear, even the fear of being fearful, becomes
great;  therefore I would expect the suicide rate to go up.  This will happen if
you are a regular or reserve military member.

>episode that has made the US military the laughing-stock of the

I also believe a public affaires officer was behind the letter.  The point
being though most of the soldiers did sign the letter and agreed with its
content according to the Gannett News Service.

------------------------
"It's not clear who wrote the letter or organized sending it to soldiers'
hometown papers"

"Sgt. Christopher Shelton, who signed a letter that ran in the Snohomish Herald,
said Friday that his platoon sergeant had distributed the letter and asked
soldiers for the names of their hometown newspapers. Soldiers were asked to sign
the letter if they agreed with it, said Shelton, whose shoulder was wounded
during an ambush earlier this year. 

"Everything it said is dead accurate. We've done a really good job," he said by
phone from Italy, where he was preparing to return to Iraq"
-----------------------

The letter was propaganda designed to get some positive news about the Iraq
struggle back home.  Keep in mind that propaganda is not necessarily lies.
Propaganda,  a noun, is, "information that is spread for the purpose of
promoting some cause". "http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=propaganda
-- 
Eugene A. Calame    [email-masked]
Austin, Texas USA

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From: Jan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:47:31 -0400

>you are a regular or reserve military member.
I agree there is nothing to be done about the suicide rate among the
civilian population, I further agree that there is nothing anyone can
do to change that.  However, what is being discussed is suicide within
the military, this is, I think is a vastly different thing.
True there is stress and fear, in fact the person who states he/she is
not afraid is either a liar, a fool, or both.  
Notwithstanding that, the regular soldier/sailor/airman is aware of
this, knows it's going to happen, is, or should be, trained with that
in mind, and lives with it.  So I don't see this as a reason.  As I
stated in a previous post, if this is normal with the regular force,
there is something badly amiss in the selection or training processes.
In the case of the reservist however, the picture changes
dramatically.  Your average reservist I believe, based on experience,
joins for one or more reasons.  They want to earn a bit of spare
money, they want to be in uniform, they want to get a feel for the
military before making it a career, it becomes a hobby or they feel
that they are serving their country by being at least partly trained
in case of a national emergency.  They are prepared to accept the
week-end exercises, and possibly a two week or more training session
in the summer.  What they do not expect is to be yanked from their
civilian occupation and sent a few thousand miles away to be
cannon-fodder.
Once this happens, I can see several areas of grave concern coming
into play.  Can their wives/girl-friends take the separation?  Is
there sufficient money to maintain the life-style they had prior to
being drafted?  If not, how do they maintain their homes and how do
they feed their families?   Add the above to the already acknowledged
fear associated with an active duty posting and you have, in my
opinion, a recipe for disaster.  
However, if the government guarantees that these concerns will be
attended to, then other reasons have to examined.  

>content according to the Gannett News Service.

When operating under the military hierarchy, it is extremely difficult
for the non-commissioned ranks to ignore a 'request' from a senior
officer, especially if they wish to be promoted.  You won't find this
written anywhere, but it is a fact of life.  I would be more
interested in seeing what the troops themselves have to say in their
letters home.  Bearing in mind that they will also down-play any fear
and nastiness as they don't want others to worry.  I've done it
myself.  I think it is the fact that the letter in question was a
form-letter which rather debased the message.  I'm sure the majority
of people think they *are* doing a good thing and take great pride in
what they are doing to help restore peace and prosperity to the area.
It's the method of delivery I find somewhat obnoxious.

 Agreed, it is unfortunate though that the word could not have been
spread to report the same thing in the troops own style in their
letters home.  Perhaps a foot-note to ask parents or wives to pass the
letter on to the local paper, spelling and grammar mistakes included.
This would have made it very believable.

Jan

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From: Eugene A. Calame <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:20:21 -0500

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:47:31 -0400, Jan <[email-masked]> wrote:

(CUT)
>the military, this is, I think is a vastly different thing.

It is no difference except the stress of overseas deployments and combat.
Soldiers are human.

>civilian occupation and sent a few thousand miles away to be

They should be prepared.  They are told what to expect.  That is what they are
for; to backup the regular military.

How do I know this.  I was in the Air National Guard ( 209th weather Flight )
and the Air Force Reserve (Radio/Navigation) for a total of twenty years (
Including 4 years of regular Air Force).  

The Air National Guard unit was to be deployed to Fort Hood, with the 49th
Armored Division, first and then to Germany if needed.  Most of the two weeks
summer training was spent on exercises using maps of Germany.

>attended to, then other reasons have to examined.

For the most part they are. Jobs, employment, are retained by law.  Pay, and
services, in some companies continues at the same rate minus what they get from
the military.  Not ideal but not a disaster.  The reservists get the same pay as
regulars which is not near as bad as it was in the 50's.
 
>It's the method of delivery I find somewhat obnoxious.

-----------------------------

Some truth in that but when the Gannett News Service checked they confirmed the
contents of the letter.  I doubt there was any Senior Non-commisssioned, or
commissioned, officer around when they were interviewed.

Then you should find form letters to congressmen, encouraged by special interest
concerns, equally obnoxious.

>This would have made it very believable.

One of he things the military does, or at least use to do, is send information
to members home town newspapers for publication.  It was of course always
favorable.  Usually announcing the completion of some training requirement or
promotion.

I see nothing wrong or unusual about the letter.  I certainly do not see the
negative connotations of the letter I feel the posting of it to this group was
supposed to generate.

---

From: Jan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:02:05 -0400

>It is no difference except the stress of overseas deployments and combat.

Let's agree to  disagree on this one.<g>
>for; to backup the regular military.

The operative word here is *should*.  Do you not agree that there is a
vast difference between the regular force and the active reserve, (I
am assuming here that the Air National Guard is active and liable to
be called up as in Iraq, while the Air Force Reserve is passive and
only called up in dire emergency)
After 7 years regular service and another 15 or so in the active
reserve of Britain and Canada I am convinced that while the reservist
is ahead of the game compared to a new rookie, the reservist needs
much more training to bring him/her up to regular force standards.
I always found that the physical level alone needed to  be boosted as
the training periods did not offer enough time to take care of that
side of things.  Two nights a week and the odd week-end just did not
cut it as far as getting people ready for combat duty at short notice.
>regulars which is not near as bad as it was in the 50's.

Thanks for this information, I was not aware of it.  As you state, not
ideal but not as disastrous as I imagined.  There must be more reasons
behind the suicides though, it will be interesting to read the reports
if they are ever released.
>>It's the method of delivery I find somewhat obnoxious.

Oh, believe me I do.

Jan

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From: Eugene A. Calame <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:00:28 -0500

>cut it as far as getting people ready for combat duty at short notice.

They do go through extensive training before being sent into action.  

While I was in the Air National Guard, 209th Weather Flight, we were attached to
the Texas Army nation Guard 49th Armored Division. The Texas Army National Guard
unit would have replaced a regular Army Armored Division, at Ft. Hood, Texas,
that had been sent into action.  After some intensive, full time, training the
Texas Army Guard unit would then have been called forward if needed.  

That was during the cold war and of course missions must have changed greatly
since then.

The National Guard and Reserves are about the same except the National Guard
units are at the beck and call of the Governor of the respective states for
emergencies.  

I also think the National Guard units must be called up as a unit and not as
individuals.  Individuals can volunteer for regular duty  if they wish.

Reservists can be called up as individuals if they happen to possess a skill
that is needed.

Both National Guard and Reservist units have a cadre of full time personnel to
manage the day to day needs of the units.  They are all federal employees and
members of the unit.

I do have to qualify my knowledge on the operation of the units as dated.  It
has been some time since I have served.  Time marched on when I stopped to rest.