1936-10-13 14 1 5 REPS 1023 0 House of Representatives. 1936-10-13 Mr. Speaker (Hon. G. J. Bell) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers. 1023 distinguished visitors 1023 10000 0 0 SPEAKER, Mr Mr SPEAKER - I desire to in form the House that the Right Honorable R. B. Bennett, K.C., a member of the House of Commons, Canada, iswithin the precincts. With the concurrence of honorable members, I shall provide the right honorable gentleman with a distinguished stranger's seat on the floor of the House beside the Speaker's chair. Honorable Members. -Hear, hear ! Mr. Bennettthereupon entered the chamber, and was seated accordingly. 1023 papers The following papers were presented - Dried Fruits Export Control Act - Twelfth Annual Report of the Dried Fruits Control Board, for year 1935-36, together with Statement by the Minister regarding theoperationof the Act. Meat Export Control Act - First Annual Report of the Australian Meat Board, dated 31st July, 1936, together with Statement by the Minister regarding the operation of the Act. Wine Overseas Marketing Act- Eighth Annual Report of the Wine Overseas Marketing Board, for year 1935-36, together with Statement by the Minister regarding the operation of the Act. Customs Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1936,No. 136. Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1936. No. 140. Lands Acquisition Act -Land acquired at Castle Hill, New South Wales- for Postal purposes. Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory ( Administration ) Act- Ordinance of 1936 - No. 10 - Pharmacy. Crown Lands Ordinance - Regulations amended. 1024 Questions 1024 1024 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr CURTIN - I ask the Minister for Defence whether the Commonwealth Government has made an agreement with the Government of the United Kingdom in relation to the England-Australia air mail service? If so, is it for a period of fifteen years, and does it prescribe that overseas mails for Perth, Western Australia, shall be carried from London to Sydney direct, and then bo sent on to that city? 1024 KXQ UAP 1 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - The last statement which I made on the matter in this House was to the effect that certain modifications of the proposed scheme had been suggested to the Government of the United Kingdom. An answer to those representations has come to hand, but, owing to pressure of business, it has not yet been fully considered by Cabinet. The matter to which the honorable member has referred is one of detail. No agreement of tie nature suggested, nor one for a term of years, could yet have been made. 1024 KXY 0 0 PERKINS, John Mr PERKINS - Can the Minister for Defence give any indication of the localities he had in mind when he made the statement attributed to him in this morning's press, that within a short time he expected to see a big increase of the number of air mail services in operation in Australia? 1024 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - The statement referred to by the honorable member represents my personal opinion. In conversation with a press reporter on a variety of matters, I ventured to make a prophecy in regard to aviation development generally in Australia. I had no particular localities in mind. 1024 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr CURTIN - I ask the Minister for Defence whether it is a fact that the agreement in respect of the Empire air mail service which is at present being considered contemplates, in its present form, a term of fifteen years? What period, other than fifteen years, is at present the basis of these negotiations? 1024 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - I regret that I did not make myself clear on this point when replying to the honorable member's previous question. . The proposal in its original form provides for a period of fifteen years, but that aspect has not yet been considered by the Government. No commitment has been made by the Government in respect of the term of any agreement which may be finally arrived at. 1024 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - Has the agreement yet reached a stage at which the Government has agreed to employ flying boats or other craft? Also, has it yet been decided to terminate the service at Darwin, or to continue itaround the coast to Sydney? 1024 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - I should have said previously that this matter, so far, is only a proposal. It is not an agreement. The matters referred to by the honorable member have not yet been considered, and no decision has yet been arrived at upon them. 1024 Proposed Trans-Tasman Flight 1024 KOQ 0 0 MCCALL, William Mr McCALL - Will the Minister for Defence state whether a decision has yet been made in connexion with the proposed flight of Miss Jean Batten across the Tasman? 1024 KXQ UAP 1 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - I feel that I am voicing the sentiments of every honorable member when I say that very great admiration is felt for the wonderful flight which Miss Jean Batten has made from England to Australia. It is neither the desire nor the intention of the Civil Aviation Department to either embarrass or irritate in the slightest degree, by suggestion or regulation, the determination which this remarkable young aviatrix has come to. The matter has naturally been considered by the Civil Aviation Department. That is a reasonable course to adopt in respect of all matters which come within its pur- view. But, as Miss Batten has provided herself from outside Australia with the necessary licences that entitle her to follow the course she proposes, the aircraft she is using having been utilized by her previously in a South Atlantic flight, the department has no authority to interfere with her arrangements. I can merely express the hope that if the projected flight is undertaken it will be successful. Whatever may be done to assist in any direction will most certainly and willingly be done by the Government of the Commonwealth, and every Commonwealth department. 1025 1025 JSC UAP 1 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr BRENNAN - Has the Attorney-General invited or obtained opinions of counsel as to-whether the marketing legislation of the Commonwealth may be safeguarded without the necessity of an appeal to the people, by way of referendum, for an alteration of the Constitution? If so, will the honorable gentleman make such opinions available to honorable members? 1025 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - I have obtained such opinions, but do not remember offhand if any opinion has been obtained in writing. If it has, I shall make it available. 1025 1025 KVN 0 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr STREET - In view of the necessity for continuity in the defence policy of Australia and the desirability of keeping that policy free from party politics, I ask the Prime Minister whether he will consider inviting the Leader of the Opposition to become a permanent member of the Council of Defence? 1025 F4O UAP 1 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr LYONS - The matter is worthy of the consideration of the Government and will receive it. 1025 1025 JUQ 0 0 CLARK, Joseph Mr CLARK - Has the attention of the Minister directing negotiations for trade treaties been drawn to the following resolution of a meeting of graziers at. Gulargambone held during the weekend : - That this mooting o£ primary producers endorse the action of the president of the Graziers' Association and chairman of the Wool Council, and the president of the Graziers' Federal Council, in opposing the action of the Federal Government in imposing almost prohibitive tariff measures and licensing Japanese imports into this country - 1025 10000 0 0 SPEAKER, Mr Mr SPEAKER - The honorable member may not express opinions in asking his question. 1025 JUQ 0 0 CLARK, Joseph Mr CLARK - I am reading a resolution carried at a meeting of graziers. It continues - further that we do not consider the action of the Government to bc in the best interests of Australia or the British Empire. 1025 10000 0 0 SPEAKER, Mr Mr SPEAKER - Order! The honorable member must ask his question without comment, and without reference to the opinions of other persons. 1025 JUQ 0 0 CLARK, Joseph Mr CLARK - I wish to know whether the Minister will see that Cabinet gives full consideration to the views expressed in the resolution that I have read? 1025 KFS UAP 1 0 GULLETT, Henry Sir HENRY GULLETT - My attention has been drawn to the report of the meeting referred to by the honorable member, and it has also been drawn to resolutions of meetings of graziers at Moree, one of the most important wool growing centres of New South Wales, and at Narrabri supporting the action of the Government. 1025 1025 KV7 0 0 STEWART, Frederick Sir FREDERICK STEWART - Will the Prime Minister inform me whether he is prepared to make arrangements at an early date for honorable members of the House to meet Sir Walter Kinnear and Mr. Ince, departmental officers of the British Government, who are in Australia to advise the Government in connexion with social insurance, in order that members of all parties may have the opportunity to learn at first-hand the experience of Great Britain in this important matter? 1025 F4O UAP 1 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr LYONS - I do not know whether such an arrangement can be made, but T shall see whether it is possible. 1025 1025 KQ8 0 0 SCHOLFIELD, Thomas Mr SCHOLFIELD - Has the Prime Minister any information to give the House regarding the reported establishment of woollen mills at Hong Kong by British, Australian and Chinese interests? 1026 F4O UAP 1 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr LYONS - I ask the honorable member to put his question on the notice-paper. I shall make an inquiry to see whether any information is available on the subject. 1026 1026 KHL 0 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY - I ask the Treasurer whether he will ascertain if arrangements can be made so that ex-service men who intend to visit England at their own expense to participate in the coronation festivities may be paid the full value of their pension while abroad, for many of them will have to live on their pension? Would it be possible to arrange for the pension to be payable free of exchange? 1026 JWE UAP 1 0 CASEY, Richard Mr CASEY - I shall inquire into the subject, 1026 1026 KJQ 0 0 JAMES, Rowland Mr JAMES - I ask the Prime Minister whether he was correctly reported in Sydney yesterday to the effect that Sir David Rivett had cabled the Government stating that the wisest course to pursue in connexion with the proposal to establish a plant to produce oil from coal in Australia would be to waituntil certain essential improvements had been effected in the English oil-from-coal plant before concluding any agreement with Imperial Chemical Industries Limited for the designing of a plant for Australia? In view of the urgency of this subject, does the right honorable gentleman consider that it would be wise to adopt the German Fischer-Tropsch process and establish a national coal oil plant? In view of the statement made by the Premier of New South Wales that a company had already been formed to operate in New South Wales and that its development was delayed by financial consideration, will the Prime Minister inform me whether the Government has made any definite decision regarding the proposal to exempt from excise duty petrol produced from coal? 1026 F4O UAP 1 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr LYONS - The statement that I made in Sydney was given in reply to questions from representatives of the press and incorrectly gives the import of the cablegram received by the Government from Sir David Rivett. The other questions which the honorable member has asked have already been an swered in statements made in this House at different times.. So much is involved in this project that, until a definite proposition is made for the establishment of a company to produce oil from coal, the Government will be unable to consider every aspect of the question; but, as I have previously assured the House, we are anxious that this industry shall be established in Australia and shall take every practical step to establish it without any undue loss of time. We must however, of necessity, await the final report of Sir David Rivett who is the expert adviser to the Commonwealth on the subject. 1026 KJQ 0 0 JAMES, Rowland Mr James - What about the exemption from excise duty on petrol produced from coal? 1026 F4O 0 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr LYONS - That subject will have to be considered later. ' 1026 1026 KF9 ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936 0 0 GREEN, Albert Mr A GREEN - Is the Minister representing the Postmaster-General able to state on what date the A class broadcasting station at Kalgoorlie will commence operations? 1026 KXQ NAT; UAP from 1931 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL - I shall obtain the information and inform the honorable gentleman. 1026 1026 KK7 0 0 JENNINGS, John Mr JENNINGS - Has the Minister for Defence any information to give to honorable members regarding the departmental inquiry into the report that the crew of the Monospar Croydon aircraft allege that they were given inaccurate messages from the direction-finding station at Darwin? 1026 KXQ NAT; UAP from 1931 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL - The department has not yet investigated the report, but it will inquire into this matter most thoroughly in order that the fullest particulars may be disclosed to the public at a later date. 1026 1026 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - Will the Prime Minister inform the House what tenders, if any, have been received for the leasing of the Newnes shale-oil lease and plant? 1026 F4O UAP 1 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr LYONS - I shall confer with the Minister-in-charge of Development and endeavour to make the information available to the honorable member as soon as possible. 1027 1027 JSC UAP 1 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr BRENNAN - I ask the Prime Minister whether we may reasonably hope that steps will be taken at an early date and, if so, when, for the ratification of the Statute of Westminster; and also whether he does not think, when we are entertaining a distinguished visitor from Canada, the present would be a suitable time to announce our decision to bring Australia into line with a sister dominion on this matter? 1027 F4O UAP 1 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr LYONS - The present moment is perhaps a suitable time to re-state the Government's decision that it will bring in a bil] as soon as possible to ratify the Statute of Westminster. 1027 1027 KOQ 0 0 MCCALL, William Mr McCALL - Has the attention of the Minister for Defence been directed to a statement in the press indicating that a shortage of iron ore is giving Japan some concern? In view of the pact made by the powers for non-intervention in the Spanish civil war by which the nations bind themselves not to supply either belligerent with war materials, has the Minister taken into consideration the matter of prohibiting supplies of iron ore from Australia to Japan in view of Japan's activities in Northern China? 1027 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - Is the honorable member looking for trouble? 1027 KXQ UAP 1 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - My attention has not been drawn to the statement referred to hy the honorable member and so far I have not seen it, but I shall be glad to give attention to the matter. 1027 1027 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr HOLT - I ask the Minister for Defence on what date he proposes to resume negotiations with the Government of Victoria for the acquisition of a site at Fishermen's Bend for the purposes of an airport? 1027 KXQ UAP 1 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - I propose to seek an interview with the Premier of Victoria on this matter at an early date. 1027 1027 K9A 0 0 GANDER, Joseph Mr GANDER - Has the Minister for the Interior yet come to a decision regarding my previous representations that workers injured in the Federal Capital Territory should be covered against hospital and medical expenses? 1027 KXT CP 0 0 PATERSON, Thomas Mr PATERSON - Not yet. 1027 1027 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - I ask the Prime Minister which Minister is at present handling negotiations with the Government of New Zealand with a view to securing greater reciprocity of trade between Australia and that Dominion, and if he has anything to report on such negotiations? 1027 F4O UAP 1 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr LYONS - No definite discussion is taking place on this matter at the moment, and I have no announcement to make with regard to it. 1027 bill Assent to the following bills reported.: - Prune Bounty Bill (No. 2) 1030. Orange Bounty Bill (No. 2) 1930. 1027 bill The following bills were returned from the Senate without amendment: - Western Australia Grant Bill 1830. Tasmania Grant Bill 1936. (South Australia Grant Bill 1930. Invalid and Old Age Pensions Appropriation Bill 1930. motion 1027 In Committee of Supply: Consideration resumed from the 9th October {vide page 1020) on motion by Mr. Casey - That the first item in the Estimates under Division 1 - The Senate - namely, " Salaries and allowances, £7 .HOO ", bo agreed to. 1027 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM " - I congratulate the Treasurer (Mr. Casey) on the success which attended his efforts to place the Income Tax Assessment Act of last session on the statute-book. The honorable gentleman is entitled to the thanks not only of this Parliament, but also of the whole of the taxpayers of Australia for the work that he performed in connexion with that measure. It i> something of which he may justly be proud. In complimenting the Government on a budget which shows that Australia has made remarkable progress towards financial recovery, it is only right that a tribute should be paid to the right honorable member forYarra (Mr. Scullin) for the stand which his Government took in 1929, when Australia faced its greatest Crisis. In paying that tribute to the Scullin Government, I do not desire to detract from the achievements of the very fine administration under the Right Honorable the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons). It is particularly gratifying to note that, although the net national debt increased by £67,954,000 during the last four years the public debt of the Commonwealth decreased by £7,854,000 in that period. The gross increase of £75,799,000 represents State debts. Moreover, the Treasurer was able to announce that remissions of taxation amounting to £5,275,000 per annum are proposed. Of that sum £3,000,000 represents remissions of sales tax and £2,105,000 remissions of income tax, the balance of £170,000 representing primage duty remissions. Notwithstanding those reductions of the burden on the taxpayers, the budget contains the welcome announcement of restored salaries to public servants, of increased payments to invalid and old-age pensioners, of a more liberal maternity allowance, of more generous treatment of the States, and of other advantages to the community generally. I desire now to refer to a matter which was raised by the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Forde) last Friday. It is most unfortunate that the trade relations between Australia and Japan should be raised at this juncture, particularly since the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) had already announced that the Government was prepared to allow the subject to be discussed by Parliament at a later date. Delicate negotiations such as those which have been proceeding for some time between the two countries, should be carried on in an atmosphere free from party strife, and therefore the most inopportune criticism of the honorable gentleman was the more indefensible. 1028 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr Brennan - It is high time that something was said; 1028 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - The honorable gentleman used extraordinarily strong language. 1028 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr Brennan - It was not too strong. 1028 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - I remind the committee that the repetition of a charge even twenty times, does no: necessarily establish its truth. 1028 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - The importance of the subject merited strong language. 1028 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - The language used by the honorable gentleman was not justified by the facts. His speech last Friday was most unfortunate. I shall not now discuss in detail the trade relations between Australia and Japan, but I wish to make one or two remarks in relation to the subject. During the whole of his speech, the honorable member for Capricornia did not make one suggestion towards solving a problem which every one admits is most difficult and from which there is no escape. Australia must realize that its best oversea market is the United Kingdom, and that in the interests of its people, the volume of trade between the two countries must be maintained at as high a level as possible. Statistics disclose that, in relation to textiles particularly, the trade relations between this country and the Motherland are far from satisfactory. I ask the honorable member for Capricornia how he would preserve markets for Australian primary produce, and maintain the principle of preferential trade between Australia and the United Kingdom without doing as the Government has done? The question is not answered by hurling epithets at the Government. 1028 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr Brennan - The Scullin Government solved greater problems. 1028 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - The Government's objective was made clear by the Minister directing negotiations for trade treaties (Sir Henry Gullett), who told the House that, because the Government desired to preserve and increase markets in Great Britain for Australian primary produce, it desired to maintain imports from the United Kingdom at such a level as would produce such a result, whilst giving to good customers foreign countries, including Japan, a fair share of Australia's trade. The Minister put the position clearly when he said - We have reluctantly come to the conclusion, based solely on the necessity for granting protection to British industry and our complete reliance on the United Kingdom to absorb our exportable surplus of all difficult selling commodities, that the imports of these low priced foreign textiles cannot continue unchecked. The honorable member for Capricornia, avoided the real issue. In a long speech, he merely reiterated his charge against the Government. He should not lose sight of the fact that statistics covering a period of ten years disclose that the British market was worth £600,000,000 to Australia. For the year 1934-35 Britain took more than 50 per cent, of our total exports valued at approximately £54,000,000, which was four times more than that taken by any other individual country. Those figures demonstrate clearly that Great Britain is the best market for Australia's primary products. Great Britain purchases an extraordinarily wide range of goods exported from Australia, and a very great proportion of them also, as is show by the following table: - It will thus be seen that over the whole range of our primary products Great Britain takes by far the largest share of our exports. We cannot, therefore, minimize the extraordinarily great value of the British market to Australia. Surely, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) would not suggest that we should regard with indifference the fact that our trade with Great Britain, in respect of goods not manufactured in Australia, particularly certain textiles, is being prejudiced. Surely, when that happens Australia is bound to take necessary corrective action. 1029 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - The honorable member does not suggest that we are likely to be shut out of the British market? 1029 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - If the trade in textiles with Japan were allowed to continue as it has recently developed, it would mean that a great deal of Australia's trade with Great Britain would be destroyed. The figures which I have quoted are clear and beyond dispute, and the honorable member would be wise to study them.. What is the value of the British market to the State which he represents, especially in primary products? The total exports from Queensland for 1934-35, the most recent period for which complete statistical details are available, were valued in Australian currency at £18,300,000, of which exports valued at £11,650,05**, or 63 J per cent, of the total, went to Great Britain. Exports to other British countries were valued at £780,000, or 4i per cent, of the total, while exports valued at £5,870,000, or 39 per cent. of the total, went to foreign countries. It will be seen, therefore, that if any damage is done to Australia's market in Great Britain, among the States of the Commonwealth Queensland will be one of the chief losers, if not the greatest loser, because, after all, Queensland is essentially a primary producing State, which largely depends on exports for its existence. The honorable member is not doing any service to the Commonwealth, or to the State of Queensland, in charging the Government with bungling when it takes the only action which it could reasonably take in order to preserve the interests of the country as a whole. In view of the attitude which the honorable member adopted last Friday, I ask him what attitude he takes up in relation to the British Empire generally. He says that he believes in Australia first, Britain next, and other countries last; but his declaration will be tested by his attitude on the present issue. In this matter, is he considering Australia first? As the Minister directing negotiations for trade treaties (Sir Henry Gullett) pointed out, certain other principles are involved. One in particular with which Australia is concerned, is the preservation of fair standards of living. 1030 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - Hear, hear ! 1030 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - The honorable member is derisive. 1030 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - No; but I am amused at the red herring which the honorable member is endeavouring to draw across iiic trail. 1030 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - Surely, a* an Australian, the honorable member must admit that that opinion is held by all Australians. But even bigger issues are involved. 1030 L08 0 0 ROSEVEAR, John Mr Rosevear - The party to which the honorable member belongs never stood for a fair standard of living. 1030 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - It did so long before the honorable member was bom. Ever since the foundation of responsible government in Australia all governments have stood for the preservation of good standards of living in Australia. Even prior to responsible government, that principle was contended for. In connexion with the discussions at the International Labour Office at Geneva it has been mentioned that the difficulties which confront nations that desire high standards of living are enhanced by the competition of goods produced in countries that have lower standards of living. We all realize that that is one of the questions involved in this particular issue. Quite apart from all party feeling, surely when it comes to national action designed to deal with high considerations, we must, consistently apply the principle of making every endeavour to maintain our recognized standards. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition, in common with all other Australians, has consistently stood for the development of the sugar industry on a White Australia basis. That, as a matter of fact, was one of the first questions which the Commonwealth Parliament was called upon to decide. By passing the Pacific Island Labourers Act, the first Commonwealth Ministry-, under the distinguished leadership of Sir Edmund Barton, introduced the principle of the development of the sugar industry under fair labour conditions. To Queensland, that industry is a matter of vital imports-nice, because that State depends for its very existence upon it. By adopting the principle of a fair and just standard of labour conditions, Australia has set a lesson to the world, of what cun be accomplished by European peoples under tropical and sub-tropical conditions. Only recently the Premier of Queensland, Mr. Forgan Smith, was in active co-operation with the Minister for Commerce (Dr. Earle Page) in Great Britain, in an attempt to preserve preferonce for Australian sugar in the British market. Honorable members must remember that an attempt to establish the beet-sugar industry in Great Britain has had some measure of success. They must also remember that Great Britain has also to consider the interests of its colonies which produce sugar. But, a plea was advanced by our representatives that Great Britain should also .continue preference to the product of the Australian sugar industry. Australia asked for preference, because its white-labour product has to compete against the cheap-labour product of other countries. No party in Great Britain challenged the British Government, and accused it of bungling, because as a result of its action, one of the dominions received favoured treatment in the United Kingdom. Great Britain, realizing that one of the dominions was producing an article under fair labour conditions, was prepared to extend preferential treatment to that dominion. Consequently, when the subject of Australia's exports of sugar was recently discussed with the British Government, it was decided that no restriction would be placed upon the importation of Australian sugar to the United Kingdom for the current year, and. an assurance was given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the present preference of approximately £3 15s. a ton on dominion sugar would not be altered without eighteen months'^ notice being given. The value of the raw sugar exported to the United Kingdom from Australia during the last two years is as follows: - Great Britain has shown that it is prepared to act in the interests of the dominions, and to assist them in competition with other countries. Sugar is not the only article in regard to which Great Britain has adopted the same generous attitude. Take, for instance, the production of dried fruits, which is carried on extensively in Victoria, New South Wales and South Australia. At one period, this industry was seriously threatened because of the competition of dried fruits produced in cheaplabour countries in the Mediterranean and in other parts of the world. For some years I was in charge of the administrative work in connexion with the River Murray Waters Scheme, and I travelled extensively through the districts in which dried fruits are produced. The men engaged in the industry had my utmostsympathy, for I observed the heavy task imposed on them in competing overseas with the products of cheap labour. It <vas demonstrated that the costs of pro.duction of their competitors overseas were lower than those in Australia. The British people give our growers a preference in the British markets on an article which they do not produce themselves. Under the Ottawa agreement Australia enjoys a preference of 15 per cent, ad valorem on canned fruit, in addition to the duty on the sugar content. The preference granted by the United Kingdom on Australian sugar, as against foreign sugar, affords additional assistance to our canned fruits, and the net value of the protection given under the Ottawa agreement is equivalent to approximately 17 per cent, ad valorem. The preference is 10s. 6d. per cwt. on all kinds of dried fruits, except currants, on which the preference is 2s. per cwt. I ask honorable members to consider the principles underlying the action of the present Government in regard to Japanese competition. In the first place, the Government has acted in the interests of Australia, because this is mainly a primary producing country. We are confronted by closed markets in almost every part of the world, and we are endeavouring to obtain new ones. Great Britain offers us the one sure market we have, and this gives promise of being an expanding one. Britain can take our goods only if it- is sufficiently successful in its own industries and exports to enable it to purchase our goods. Therefore, the Commonwealth Government was justified in adopting, as its first principle, the preservation of Australian industries, and, secondly, the policy of trade preference to Great Britain and an alteration of the tariff to make it effective. This surely should be the accepted polley of all parties in this Parliament. If British trade to Australia is in danger of being destroyed by reason of the competition of the goods produced in cheap-labour countries, it is in the interests of Australia to do all it can to preserve the standards of living of those employed in British industries, as well as those engaged in our own industries. Why should honorable members opposite make the charge that they have levelled against the Government? I am first an Australian; but I also claim to b* British to the core, and I am willing to do all I can to help to develop the dominions, thus strengthening the British Empire. Of course, we have to consider our trade relations with other countries willing to trade with us, including Japan, to whom, in my opinion, the Government has shown great consideration. The Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) has enunciated the clear principle on which the Government has acted. He has emphasized that it is anxious to place Japan on a fair and just footing, as well as other countries which trade with us, by giving them a fair share of our markets. Has any helpful or constructive suggestion been offered by the Opposition? The mere repetition .of vague and wild charges, which may be broadcast among the other nations, will not help Australia. 1031 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - This dispute has been in progress for five months. The Opposition has been more considerate to this Government, than the Minister directing negotiations for trade treaties was to the Scullin Government. 1032 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - Even if an injustice were done to the honorable member when he was in power, he should now say, " Although you wronged me, I put Australia first, and personal feelings will not deflect me from my proper course of action". 1032 L08 0 0 ROSEVEAR, John Mr Rosevear - Can the honorable member say why this Government sent Sir John Latham to Japan, if it was not for cheap trade? 1032 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM -There is no reason why we should not import from a low-wage country goods which we do not produce, and which do not come into injurious competition with those of any other country with whom we trade. It is possible to have goodwill towards other nations, although we are bound to impose protective duties. It would be most unfortunate were it understood that every time a nation imposed customs duties, it was actuated by ill-will. I am convinced that the Government did the right thing when it sent a goodwill mission to Japan. 1032 L08 0 0 ROSEVEAR, John Mr Rosevear - It was not a trade mission, by any chance? 1032 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - I do not think it was. 1032 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - Does the honorable member know that Great Britain imports twice as much from Japan as Australia does, yet the Government of Great Britain has not seen fit to impose prohibitions on Japanese trade. 1032 KFS 0 0 GULLETT, Henry Sir Henry Gullett - The British rerestrictions against the importation of artificial silk are even more drastic than those Australia has imposed. 1032 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - I hope that the Government will be permitted to continue its efforts to find a satisfactory solution of the present trade difficulties, and I am sure that moderation in the discussion of this subject is more likely to produce satisfactory results than exaggeration. I congratulate the right honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin) upon the speech he made a few evenings ago upon the subject of Australian literature. The tone of that speech raised the standard nf our debates, and was worthy of the subject and of the right honorable gentleman. I am sure that we all agree with him that whatever is possible should be done to foster the development of Australian literature, and to help the authors engaged in its production. In the past, Australia has done something, but not very much, in that direction, and our minds go back to the fearful hardships experienced by Kendall, that sweet singer, an Australian Wordsworth in his love of nature, during the time he was so successfully interpreting the spirit of Australia. Eventually, through the efforts of Sir Henry Parkes, he was given a position in the public service of the State. In the same way, Brunton Stevens was appointed to the public service in Queensland, but, owing to the provisions of the Public Service Acts of the States and the Commonwealth, that sort of thing can no longer be done. One of the last to receive assistance in this way waB George Essex Evans, the Queensland poet, who blended an imperial note with his Australian songs. The right honorable member for Yarra suggested that those writers who have distinguished themselves should receive suitable rewards from the State, and there is much to be said for his suggestion. I trust that the Government, as a further step towards honouring poets and writers of distinction, will continue to have their portraits painted and hung in the National Portrait Gallery. At the present time, we have in this building specially painted portraits of Kendall and Gordon. The portraits of Brunton Stevens, who wrote that beautiful poem Dominion of Australia, which was an inspired forecast of the Commonwealth, written some 30 years before federation was achieved, and of Essex Evans, the author whose poem in honour of the creation of the Commonwealth was published on the day the Commonwealth was proclaimed, should be placed in the National Portrait Gallery. Already » good beginning has been made in acquiring a collection of the portraits of men notable in Australia's history. We have portraits of great explorers and navigators such as Mitchell, Eyre, Flinders, Bass and others, but there are many more whose portraits should be painted and placed in the gallery. If this were done, it would give assistance to Australian art, and to Australian artists. The right honorable member also suggested that steps should be taken to preserve historic places in Australia. I agree with him in that, and I believe also that this Parliament should take steps to preserve historic records of the nation, and of the Parliament. When I was chairman of the Library Committee, a proposal was under consideration that a National Archives Department should be established, and a draft bill was drawn up for that purpose. So far as I know, no systematic attempt has been made, either by the departments or the Commonwealth Government, to preserve documents of historic importance, so that in time the history of our country may be accurately written. 1033 K9C 0 0 GARDEN, John Mr GARDEN - Does the honorable member believe that the house in which Henry Lawson was born should be preserved ? 1033 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - I believe that places of that kind should be preserved if possible. 1033 K9C 0 0 GARDEN, John Mr GARDEN - It was offered to the Government a little while ago for £300 and the offer was refused. [Quorum formed.'] 1033 KFK 0 0 GROOM, Littleton Sir LITTLETON GROOM - There is in existence a Canberra University College, which was established under an ordinance, No. 20 of 1929, issued when Mr. Blakeley was Minister for the Interior, and I give kim due credit for having been associated with its establishment. The constitution of the college requires that the University Council shall report regularly upon matters in relation to university education in Canberra. The council's report for this year, which was recently laid upon the table of the House, contains the following : - The council feels that it is in duty bound to represent its view that early steps should be taken to expand the scope of the college by the founding of a national university at the Seat of Government. Owing to the improvement in economic conditions and an increase in the population of the Territory, in the very near future the needs of the college will outgrow the accommodation that has been made available for its purposes, and that some special action will be necessary to provide larger and more convenient quarters It is suggested that this could best be effected by developing a section of the scheme for a national university and that, as some time would necessarily be involved in working out the preliminary stages of such a scheme, it is highly important that no time should be lost in deciding upon the general principle affecting the university and providing an adequate building plan suitable for progressive realization to meet growing needs. Signed by the chairman, Sir Robert Garran, it is the considered finding of a capable body of men. The Canberra University College has done remarkably well, and at the present time about 75 students attend lectures from three whole-time and five part time lecturers. Although it is doing exceedingly good work, this is only a beginning. The Minister will remember that when I brought this subject before him he was sympathetic with the idea of a Canberra university. Both he and the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) said that they realized the importance of the project. Before the report was made by the Canberra University Association, three committees had reported to the Government in favour of a university at Canberra. In his reply to me, the Minister referred to the fact that the Royal Military College was to be re-established at Duntroon and pointed out that as at that college there was a large instructional staff, it might he appropriate to consider the question of the utilization of the services of the two colleges to make a beginning with a university at Canberra. I think that the idea is a good one, and I hope that the Minister will be able to carry it out. A Canberra university should not be a duplication of any university in the States; its scope would be entirely different. Of necessity, part of its work would involve the teaching aspect of university life, but its principle aim should be research work. In its original conception, the idea of a university was limited. All of the Australian universities have grown from small beginnings and have reached a development of which the Commonwealth can be justly proud. Sydney University was created by an act of Parliament, in 1850. Three chairs were established in 1S51 and in 1852 24 matriculated students were admitted. Melbourne University had its beginning in an Act passed in 1853 and with four professors its instructional courses began in 1855, and were attended by seventeen undergraduates and sixteen other students who were matriculated without examination. When the Adelaide University was established in 1S74, it was attended by eight matriculated and 52 non-matriculated students, and it owed its origin to private munificence. The University of Tasmania was established under a statute of 1889, the Queensland University under an act passed in 1909 and the Western Australian University under a statute enacted in 1911. The men responsible for the establishment of these universities were men of vision and they anticipated what the development of this country would be. At Sydney in 1852, Dr. Woolley quoted Sir William Hamilton as saying - The idea of a university is two-fold: It is first as its name imports a school of liberal and general knowledge and secondly a collection of special schools devoted to the learned professions. The idea of a university has widened since then, until to-day it covers many of the main activities of modern life. Who in 1852 would have imagined chairs of agriculture, economics and veterinary science and teaching diplomas? In modern times, university life extends to the higher teaching in all the main callings of life. The early universities of Australia were established when our population was small. To-day Australia has a population of 6,750.000 and what it needs in addition to. the existing universities is the establishment at Canberra of a university whose activities will be devoted mainly to research. I trust that the Minister will give sympathetic consideration to this matter. 1034 KJQ 0 0 JAMES, Rowland Mr James - I draw attention to the state of the committee. The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Prowse).The Chair ascertained that a quorum was present five minutes ago, and at this juncture, I do not propose to hear a call for a quorum. Sitting suspended from 4..15 to S p.m. 1034 KHL Melbourne Ports 0 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY . - I was pleased to hear the honorable member for Darling Downs (Sir Littleton Groom) state quite definitely, that it is the duty of the Government and the people generally not only to maintain the present standard of living in Australia, but also to improve it whenever possible. In searching carefully through the budget, I cannot find any statement or even an indication which would justify me in believing that in drafting the budget, the Government had that desirable object in view. Regardless of political opinions, it would be foolish for any one to deny that from certain viewpoints this is a good budget. It is pleasing to find that the Government had an excess of revenue over expenditure, and that the figures for last financial year were a record. This should make the Government and the Treasurer (Mr. Casey) particularly happy, but we have to consider what effect the budget will have upon the poorer section of the community. Business men and primary producers should be particularly satisfied because, in disposing of the excess revenue, the Government has assisted those who have benefited by higher prices. The income received from the wool clip last year was £18,000,000 more than was received during the previous year. .Similarly, last year the wheat crop returned £6,000,000 more than it did in the previous year. Moreover, the general average price of all exportable commodities was 240 points higher than in 1928. These facts suggest that from the viewpoint of Australia generally the budget is a good one. I deny that, but I do not want it to be thought that because I propose to criticize some portions of the budget, I am displeased with everything the Government has done during the last two or three years. Last year's figures and the aggregate for three years constituted records, but whether that is due to Mother Nature and outside forces, or to good administration, I cannot say. In examining closely the figures presented by the Treasurer, we have to determine whether in distributing the revenue at its disposal the Government has taken every one into consideration, or extended consideration to only favoured sections. Is it a democratic or a class budget? At this juncture, I recall the statement made by the honorable member for Darling Downs that a fundamental principle of government was to lift up those on. the lower rung of , the social ladder by improving the standard of living. I have no hesi- union in saying that there is not a single line in this budget which suggests that the Government was determined to maintain the present standard, much less improve it. "We all are pleased that the prices of our exportable commodities have improved, because higher prices mean that, as there is more money in circulation, there is a larger field available for taxation, and a consequently greater opportunity for the reduction of the rate of tax. As a result of increased revenue from the sales tax and customs and excise duties, all records were broken, and a proper distribution of the money to those persons who would have spent it in a useful way would have enabled the conditions of the people to be improved. Business men, land-owners, company directors, and shareholders and others are satisfied, because taxes have been remitted, but in addition to the relief afforded in that way they are also getting additional benefits in consequence of increased trade. The Government has repealed the special property tax and, contrary to established principles of taxation, those in receipt of high incomes will obtain special relief. . The principle of lifting the load from those less able to bear it has not been followed. The land tax also has been reduced, and the Treasurer, who I presume speaks on behalf of the Government, has indirectly promised that next year this tax will bc wiped out. 1035 KXT 0 0 PATERSON, Thomas Mr Paterson - I am sure that the Treasurer made no such promise. 1035 KHL 0 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY - If the Minister will, refer to the budget speech, he will find, that the Treasurer said that he anticipated that the land tax would 1x3 abolished next year. I consider that an impartial reading of the budget will justify that statement. The land tax has been almost abolished already. This concession, and the reductions of the income tax which were made last year were not reductions of special burdens imposed under the financial emergency legislation ; they were in operation before the introduction of the Premiers' plan during the depression years. In my opinion it is quite improper for the Government to grant remissions of taxes to some sections of the community whose needs are not pressing, while other sections, with greater claims to consideration, are still making personal sacrifices as the result of the financial emergency legislation. The most disappointing feature of the budget is the Government's repeated repudiation of the promise made by all political parties that the reductions under the financial emergency legislation would be restored before any considerable remissions of taxes were made to the wealthier classes. Last year the Government had a surplus of £5,275,000, and it is prophesied that the amount will be even greater this year. Of last year's substantial surplus only £1.000,000 would have been required to wipe out all the remnants of the financial emergency legislation. But the only people who have not had complete restoration are those who are least able to bear the sacrifices imposed upon them. In my opinion there has beer a base betrayal of these people and a repudiation of the promise which was made by all political parties. I ask honorable members to consider what has been done for the pensioners. A sum of .10d. was due to them as a result of the introduction a couple of years ago of the automatic adjustment clause. In my opinion that clause should not have been introduced until the pension had been restored to its pre-depression figure. Then the insertion of such a clause to maintain the real value of the pension might have been wise. Actually the clause was introduced before the restoration of the pension was made, and thus hae become a means of cheating the pensioners, because it means that the amount which had been taken from them will never be restored. This year, however, the Government had so much money to distribute that, it had, out of very shame, to restore something, and so it restored the sum of 8d. to each pensioner: 6d, had already been paid to them through the cost of living increase, and another 4d. was due to them ; which left only Sd. co bring the pension up to 19s. That small restoration is the only consideration that the Government has given to this section of the community. If the country were still endeavouring to regain budgetary equilibrium and the Government were not in the position to make restorations to the pensioners, honorable members could not expect it to do much more for this section; but that is not the financial position of the Commonwealth at the present time. On this occasion the Government actually had much more money than it had last year, and ample means with which to wipe the slate clean of the financial emergency legislation without any fear regarding the future. If it had done so no harm would have been done to any section of the community and it would only have been keeping its promise which it made to the old-age and invalid pensioners and to the widows and wives of crippled soldiers married after the 1st October, 1931, and their children born after that date. It is a glaring anomaly that no returned soldiers' children born after 1931, or wives married after 1931, are eligible, for pensions, although pensions are payable in respect of children born or wives married perhaps a week before the 1st October of that year. In my experience those returned soldiers whose dependants do not now receive the pension are men whose physical condition has gone from bad to worse with the passing of the years. For a long time these unfortunate men, owing to their injuries, refrained from asking women to marry them, in the belief that they would ultimately recover. As it happened their physical condition did not improve, but there were women courageous enough to marry them. The Government made them a promise, when the pensions of their dependants were cut at the beginning of the depression, that it would reconsider the situation when making restorations, and a longer period would be fixed in order that the widows and wives of crippled soldiers who married after the 1st October 1931, and children born of those marriages after that date, would be eligible to receive pensions. It was said that the date after which these pensions should be payable could not be advanced indefinitely, but at least we could carry it forward for eight or ten years after 1931 so that the dependants of such returned soldiers should be eligible for the pension. I regret to say that the Government has not kept that promise although it has remitted the special tax on property, made a further reduction of the income tax, and handed back hundreds of thousands of pounds to well-to-do people. It is now suggested that the land tax should be remitted entirely. Before making these big tax concessions, the Government should first honour the promise which it made to the wives and children of crippled soldiers. I emphasize that £l,000,000 from the surplus shown by the Treasurer would have been sufficient to make the necessary restorations to this unfortunate section of the community, and to abolish all the sordid features associated with the Premiers plan. In my opinion the Government has acted disgracefully in this connexion. An individual who fails to keep his promise is dishonest, and in this regard a government is no different from an individual. It must be regarded as dishonest if it fails to keep its word. Another big failure of this budget is the fact that the Government has not included in its programme for the future any indication of a plan to deal with the problem of unemployment, and particularly the employment of youths. Nor has it taken cognizance of the reports of its Director-General of Health in connexion with malnutrition caused by the lack of an adequate standard of living for the people. Such reports have been submitted by a competent Commonwealth Government authority and supported by all the health officers of various States. The land-owners and company directors are well pleased with the budget, but the pensioners and the unemployed are far from being satisfied with it. Throughout the budget the Treasurer suggests that unemployment has been reduced so substantially that the problem is now practically non-existent. As I stated at the outset, the budget superficially considered, is satisfactory from an orthodox point of view. Because the prices of different commodities are increasing, it is said that the need to reduce hours of labour, and increase the basic wage and the standard of living does not arise; and that the Government is under no obligation to embark upon a public works programme in co-operation with the States. Next year it is proposed to spend less money on public works than was expended last year and in the previous year. In view of the situation in Australia, the absence of any planning for the future is a fundamental weakness of the budget. I draw attention to figures compiled by the Commonwealth Statistician and relating to the best-placed section of the workers of Australia. For many years I personally handled those figures, being the responsible representative of the Commonwealth department concerned, and I mapped out a plan for the sending in of the returns from organizations registered with the Commonwealth Arbitration Court. Those figures are now used by the Government to measure the extent of unemployment; but I emphasize that they represent only the financial members of those organizations which are registered with the Commonwealth Arbitration Court, organizations largely made up of skilled or semi-skilled workers. The great army of those who are unemployed in all kinds of miscellaneous callings is not registered in the court. Of the men who are registered, 12.S per cent, arc totally unemployed. In addition, as Ministers have repeatedly agreed, about 50,000 youths are in a similar category, and, as everybody knows, the number may be added to by those who are on State registers and do not come within the purview of the Federal Court. Each month there is a fluctuation of from 10,000 to 15,000 in the number of persons registered, showing that there is no permanency in the work that is provided. But let us assume for the moment that only 12.8 per cent, of the working people of Australia are unemployed. That means that one tradesman in every eight is still out of work. Surely, then, no Treasurer or government can suggest that all is well ! 1037 KXT 0 0 PATERSON, Thomas Mr Paterson - But the present ratio is a great improvement upon one in three. 1037 KHL 0 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY - I certainly agree that 12.8 per cent, is better than 15.7 per -cent., and that the percentage of unemployment is much lower to-day than when the Government that I supported was in office. But in view of the increased prices -of our commodities, the surplus of receipts over expenditure, and the abounding revenues from customs, excise and all other sources, it would be wrong for the Treasurer, the Government, the Opposition, or any one else to say that all is well, when one tradesman in eight is out of work. There is a further disquieting feature. The Treasurer has pointed out in his budget speech that last year there were 13,000 or 14,000 additional claimants for the old-age pension. Honorable members must know that tens of thousands of men who are now drawing the old-age pension would willingly forego it and work for years if they were able to obtain employment. There are men working on the waterfront and in other industries who are over 70 years of age. Am I to be told that men who, while in employment, earned £4 or £5 a week, are satisfied with a pension of 19s. a week? Thousands would throw up the pension to-morrow and accept work if they could obtain it. The yearly addition of tens of thousands of persons to the number of pensioners surely^, indicates that there is no chance of their finding employment! I shall now refer to the submission of the honorable member for Darling Downs (Sir Littleton Groom) that it is our duty not alone to maintain but as far as possible to raise the standard of living in Australia. I wish to disabuse the mind of any person who believes that the existing standard is all that it ought to be. . The minimum wage of the man who is regularly employed is less to-day than when Mr. Justice Higgins in 1911 fixed the minimum wage - which he said was totally inadequate - at 42s. a week. The index figure upon which that 42s. was fixed in 1911, and upon which automatic adjustments to meet rises of the cost of living have since been made, was 875. To-day, the index figure is 1,453. and that represents a minimum wage of £3 9s. 6d. Thirteen or fourteen years ago there was an agitation throughout the Commonwealth to prove to the Arbitration Court that the then basic wage was too low. Mr. Justice Powers and his colleagues agreed with that contention, and weighted the basic wage by an amount of 3s. For a period of twelve years, that was accepted by the judges who subsequently presided over the court. It was universally believed that the mental outlook of our people had been raised to a slightly higher level, and that that 3s. should be added to the wage. In 1934, however, the matter was reviewed by the three judges who at present constitute the court, and the, additional 3s. or its equivalent was withdrawn. Judge Beeby delivered a minority judgment, dissenting from the majority judgment of his two colleagues. In it he said that the reduction of wages was the wrong method to adopt to induce prosperity, and that the tendency ought to be to increase them. That 3s. ought to have been regarded as inviolable; indeed by custom over many years it had become a law. But leaving it out of account, the basic wage, adjusted according to the standard fixed in 1911 by Mr. Justice Higgins, is £3 9s. 6d. ; yet two-thirds of the nien who are on the minimum wage in Victoria receive only £3 6s. I have not the figures for the ( Commonwealth, but 1 have no doubt that they average about the same figure. Surely, then, no Treasurer or government, should suggest that all is well ! 1038 K6Q 0 0 CORSER, Bernard Mr Bernard Corser - No one has said that. 1038 KHL 0 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY - I have not charged the honorable member with having said it. My contention is, that the budget gives that impression. I arn replying to the honorable member for Darling Downs, for whom I have the greatest, respect and admiration. I emphasize the point that I make, because some Government members may be unaware of the exact nature of the existing situation, may never worry about the economic circumstances of Australia or study the cost of living figures, may never have beard of the basic wage fixed in the Harvester judgment of Mr. Justice Higgins, and' may not know that the court to-day automatically adjusts the wage to meet the rise or fall of the cost of living. The statistics are compiled by Commonwealth officers whose ability in this field is equal to that of any men doing a similar class of work in the world. I would never cast doubt upon any figures they supplied ; but they have a charter to work under, and cannot furnish any more information or adopt any formulae other than it allows. Surely it is a disgrace to every public man in Australia to have to admit that, notwithstanding international conferences for the improvement of social conditions all over the world, the unskilled labourer on the basic wage in Australia receives from 8s. to 48. below the standard fixed by the adjustment of the base figure of 1911 according to the rise which has taken place in the cost of living ! As an' Australian I am ashamed of this fact. The Government has made no suggestion in the budget in relation to the adoption in Australia of a 40-hour working week, nor has it done any extra planning for the carrying out of public works in the future. 1038 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - The application of a 40-hour working week would increase the cost of living. 1038 KHL 0 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY - To those who -are totally unemployed, it does not matter how high or low the cost of living may be, because they have nothing to spend. 1 have yet to be convinced that conditions in Australia wore not more prosperous when the cost of living was high than when it was low. About three weeks ago, I asked the Commonwealth Statistician to supply to me figures giving the total cost to the Governments of Australia, Commonwealth and State, of the provision of work and other forms of relief for the unemployed out of revenue and loan funds during the last ten years. I give the figures for seven years as they have been given to me. The totals were as follows : - I have given only the round figures. The total for the seven years was £210,000,000. The relief work was largely " made " work, to meet the unemployment situation. The adoption of a combined Commonwealth and States plan of public works would have enabled us to build a modern dock in every capital city of Australia, standardize the railway gauges from one end of the continent to the other, and provide regular employment at a wage of £4 a week for every week in each of the seven years for no fewer than 100,000 men. The rapid expenditure of that large amount would have restored this country to a better position than that which it occupies to-day. The money has been spent in dribs and drabs, work has been rationed, and hardly a single solid job has been done or a substantial asset created. We are still asking the Government at least to lay the foundation of a sound defence policy by the building of modern docks at Fremantle, Darwin and Melbourne, and by the standardizing of our railway gauges. I am glad that this work has at last been started, but for twenty years we have been told that the estimated coat of so many millions - the amount has varied from time to time - was too great. Yet in seven years an amount of £2.10,000,000 has been spent to provide relief work and sustenance for unemployed people. A continuance of that policy must inevitably lead to further trouble. Why should we require men to accept work under conditions which heap indignity upon them when by the formulation of a sound long range works policy we could provide them with employment under the conditions which normally apply to our citizens? The budget does not visualize a policy of that description. The old slipshod methods are being followed. No move is being made, for example, to constitute a Commonwealth Works Council representative of the Commonwealth Government and the State governments which could arrange a sound developmental programme. Actually the State governments will receive less help and cooperation this year than formerly, and less money is being provided this year for public works than was provided last year. The Government seems to think that things are righting themselves, and that no plans need be made. I do not wish to criticize the legitimate defence programme of the Government, but every one must realize that we cannot continue to spend a* much on defence works annually for the next five or sis years as we propose to spend this year. The time will come when the defence programme will be more or less complete. I fear that when we reach that stage the men engaged on defence works will be thrown out of employment once more, and then we shall find our circumstances just as bad as they have been recently. It is deplorable that one tradesman out of every tight in Australia is still out of work, that malnutrition is still complained of, that many of our youth are still unemployed, and that half the people who are returned as employed, are actually only working half time. In these circumstances the Government should surely plan a comprehensive works programme to meet adequately the developmental needs of this great, country. Although L believe that next year's budget, in the orthodox view at least, will he better than the one submitted to us this year, the sabotage of the inventor and the application of science to industry will still go on, with the result that sections of the workers will continue to agitate against the introduction of labour-saving machinery and the mechanization of industry generally. Some people will still think as did the men of Northampton long ago, that the machine should bo destroyed. It is proposed to put in operation a cotton-picker in America which will have the result of displacing 7,000,000 workers in the first season in which it is used. That, of course, is only one aspect of a subject which has tremendous ramifications. The great failure of this budget is its revelation that the Government has not looked to the future and not attempted to formulate a policy adequate to the needs of the situation with which we are faced. Why has it not given due attention to the report of its delegates to the International Labour Conference at Geneva last year? Why has it not regarded as important the speeches at and decisions of the conference held this year? Seeing that international efforts are being made to raise the standard of living, we should be attempting to effect a more equitable distribution of the wealth of this country and so equip our people with more reasonable spending power, particularly as we regard Australia as one of the few remaining democracies. As a democracy we should be endeavouring to spread the national income more uniformly over the whole of our people. I plead for some balanced programme to achieve that end. In the few minutes that remain to me T wish to direct attention to two or three subjects of a different character. It will be remembered that when the financial emergency legislation was introduced promises were made that when readjustments became possible owing to the improved financial condition of the country due consideration would be given to the claims of dependents of ex-soldiers. When certain of our social service payments were reduced it was resolved that though the pensions of returned soldiers should not be reduced, those of soldiers' dependents should be. The Financial Emergency Act provided that soldiers' wives married after the 1st October, 1931, and children born after that date, should not be eligible for pensions as dependants. It was pointed out at that time that some ex-soldiers had married later than the 1st October, 1931. and a request was made that when re-adjustments became possible this anomaly should be removed. An undertaking was given that that would be done, but I regret that no provision has been made for this long overdue reform. I ask the Government to see whether something cannot be done during this financial year to remove this injustice. Another serious matter that demands the most careful consideration of the Government is the position of the unofficial postmasters who are employed in numerous places throughout the Commonwealth. As honorable members are aware, in many small towns where, it is alleged, the business of the Postmaster-General's Department does not warrant the appointment of a full-time postmaster, unofficial postmasters are engaged. They have to work under conditions entirely out of keeping with the general standards of the community. In many cases their wives and children have to assist in the conduct of the post office, and sweating goes on to an extent that is probably unknown in any other sphere of life in Australia. These unofficial postmasters have to handle public money, conduct banking operations, issue money orders and postal notes, transact telephonic and telegraphic business and generally discharge all the duties that usually fall to the lot of a fully-paid postmaster. For this work they are paid only £3 a week. If they wish to go on holiday they are obliged to make provision for the conduct of the post office during their absence. They are not regarded as permanent officers, and their situation is most unsatisfactory. One consequence has been that the unofficial postmasters have formed an association, and the time is not far distant when this organization will be sufficiently strong to compel the Government to abolish the sweating conditions that at present obtain. Surely the Ministry does not intend to wait until it is forced to do the fair thing by these deserving people. The sweating that unofficial postmasters are subjected to is being talked about all over Australia. 1040 10000 0 0 CHAIRMAN, The The CHAIRMAN - The honorable member's time has expired. 1040 KYH Boothby 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE .- This budget debate has been conducted in a most unsatisfactory manner. In my opinion, when a budget debate is initiated it should be carried through to completion with the minimum of interruption. In this case, however, the debate has been interrupted frequently to permit of the introduction and passing of a number of sales tax bills and bounty bills, measures to provide grants to various State governments, and several other bills. This has seriously interfered with the budget debate, and, in my opinion, detracted from its interest and effectiveness. The honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway), who has just resumed his seat, usually speaks logically, but I cannot say that of his speech to-night. The honorable gentleman accused the Government of failure to plan for the future; he also said that its administration had been most ineffective. That, however, is very far from the truth, as all honorable gentlemen must realize if they allow their thoughts to revert to the conditions which prevailed in Australia in 1930-31 and 1931-32. A comparison of the financial affairs of the Commonwealth to-day with those of the years that I have mentioned gives us every reason to be proud of the achievements of the Government, and I heartily congratulate it upon what it has effected in the rehabilitation of our finances, industries and the improvement of our general conditions. 1040 KHL 0 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr Holloway - Does the honorable member recollect that the Senate rejected the proposals of the Labour Government for national rehabilitation? 1040 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - I remember that the hare-brained schemes proposed by the Scullin Government for financing our operations were rejected. The present Government has adopted a sound financial policy, and it is to be highly congratulated upon the success which has attended its administration. It gives me the greatest pleasure to compliment the Treasurer (Mr. Casey) upon the budget he has brought down. The honorable member for Melbourne Ports' said that nothing has been done, but such generalizations are not likely to mislead anybody. On the contrary, it has actually achieved a great deal but, unfortunately, it seems that some honorable members, simply because they are out of office, are prepared to run down the other fellow. I ask the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway) whether he was able, when he was a Minister in the Scullin Cabinet, to do any of the things which he now advocates should be done by this Government? I do not think so. I cannot allow a speech of the character just delivered by the honorable member to pass without pointing out that other factors, which he has not mentioned, prevent the Government from doing those things which he has advocated, just as they contributed to his failure to do them when his party was in office. This year's budget represents a great improvement on any introduced previously, and even the honorable member for Melbourne Ports has given some credit to this Government in this respect. To me a pleasing feature of it is the Government's intimation that it has every prospect of 'presenting an even better budget next year. Is it not most gratifying to find that, in introducing so favorable a budget on this occasion, the Government can hold out promise of even better things next year? That prospect will hearten the taxpayers of this country. This Government has been able to give genuine relief from which all sections of the community will benefit. Thus it can be truthfully said that it has the interests of the whole of the people at heart. Despite what has been said by honorable members opposite, it has not favoured any section of the community, but has given of its best in the interests of all. f have no doubt that, so long as it remains in office it will confer further benefits on the nation as a whole, and in view of its record, it should remain in office for many years to come. I propose to review some of its achievements. Provision is made in the budget for the remission of £5,275,000 of taxes. 1041 KX7 0 0 WARD, Edward Mr Ward - To whom? 1041 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - To the people as a whole. Every section of the community will benefit from these remissions. This Government has reduced the rate of sales tax from 5 per cent, to i per cent., which will represent a total remission of approximately £3,000,000 annually. When addressing myself to the relevant measures I stated that I did not favour the principle of sales taxation, and expressed the hope that in the near future sales tax legislation would be removed from the statute-book. The Treasurer pointed out, reasonably, I think, that, owing to its commitments, the Government was unable to abolish the sales tax completely. I. was hopeful, however, that the rate of tax would have been reduced to 3§ per cent., or 9d. in the £1, which would have been easier for the business community to calculate and pass on to the purchasing public. I am very pleased that remissions of income tax have also been made. The total remission of £2,105,000, will provide substantial relief to a very large section of the community. It is calculated that such concessions represent, in the case of individuals, a reduction of 10 per cent, of tax on income from both personal exertion and property. Last session this Parliament passed legislation to give effect to the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Taxation to establish uniformity of assessment and collection in respect of Commonwealth and State taxation, and to simplify taxation procedure generally. The various State governments also have passed similar legislation, as the result of which taxpayers will now make one return for both Commonwealth and State purposes. Among the liberal concessions made in respect of Commonwealth income tax is a deduction of £50 in respect of a taxpayer's wife; this will mean a loss of approximately £320,000 annually to the revenue. I mention these facts because some honorable members declare that this Government has done nothing to relieve the community as a whole of taxes. This Government can be proud of its achievements in this respect. Furthermore, provision is made for an annual reduction of £.170,000 in respect of primage duty. This should give a further impetus to industry which, to-day, shows unmistakable signs of progress. In the building industry, which can be accepted as a barometer of industrial prosperity, great improvement is evident in South Australia and in other States which I have visited. I have an intimate knowledge -of the building industry, and I am aware that it can prosper only when economic conditions generally are sound. In the streets of our capital cities to-day evidence of this prosperity is apparent on every hand : one hears the hum of the saw, the chipping of the chisel, and the ring of the trowel. [Quorum formed.'] One notices the happy faces of tradesmen and workmen as they go to collect their wages, and undoubtedly that happiness permeates family life. Although some honorable members endeavour to ridicule this evidence of economic recovery, it is nevertheless very real. I remind the honorable member for Melbourne Ports, who spoke at length on unemployment, that to-day there arc very many more men employed in that industry than there were in 1933 and the following years. 1042 KK7 0 0 JENNINGS, John Mr Jennings - There is a shortage of artisans in the industry. 1042 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - That is so, and I submit that we shall have te give greater attention in 'the future to the training of our youths as artisans. However, I merely mention that matter in passing. Much has been said by honorable members in respect of invalid and old-age pensioners, lt is regrettable that some honorable members present the claims of pensioners in this House in such a way as to make political capital out of them. The position of pensioners as a whole has not been overlooked in this year's budget. I am glad that the weekly payment to invalid and old-age pensioners has been raised from 18s. to 19s. ; those who have borne the heat and burden, of the day should be given the very best "that this country can afford in their declining years. Personally, 1 should like to see a full restoration of the pension to £1 a week, but, in view of all the circumstances, I consider that the Government has acted generously. Those who criticize the budget, and say that the Government is neglecting its aged citizens, should reflect that the total expenditure for invalid and old-age pensions is approximately £14,000,000 a year. Can it be said that that is an insignificant sum? Surely, it must be admitted that the Government has a genuine interest in these old people and is doing its utmost for them. The increasing burden of these payments to relieve penury makes imperative the early introduction of a scheme of national insurance, and, therefore, I am glad that the Government has brought to Australia from Great Britain Sir Walter Kinnear and Mr. Ince, two specialists in social and national insurance to advise it in this matter. I hope that before long those two gentlemen will submit a' report to the Government, and that the time is not far distant when Australia, like the Old Country, will have a scheme of national insurance in operation. Additional repatriation benefits, including service pensions, at a cost of an extra £162,000 a year, afford further evidence, not only of a generous Government, but also of increased prosperity and restored confidence among the people generally. A liberalization of the maternity allowance is also contemplated. The amount payable in respect of a first child is to be raised to £4 10s., with a further 10s. for each additional child. Moreover, the income limit of eligibility has been raised from £208 to £221 per annum in respect of a first child, with a corresponding increase throughout the existing income scale to a maximum of £312 per annum. The estimated additional cost of these concessions is £55,000 a year. Australia is greatly in need of population, and by granting a more generous maternity allowance, and widening the field of eligibility, the Government is giving practical expression to its belief that babies are our best immigrants. Financial assistance at such times is, indeed, practical help to those who are in receipt of small incomes. Nor have the primary producers of the country been overlooked. In 1931-32, the wheat-growers were granted assistance amounting to £3,296,465. In the following year £2,132,499 was paid to them. That amount was increased to £3,044,458 in 1933-34, and was further increased in 1934-35 to £4,072,666. For the last year the amount to be expended under this heading is estimated at £1,800,000. That makes a total of £14,300,000 provided by the general -taxpayer in five years. It is pleasing to know that the price of wheat has risen so considerably and that the wheat-farmers arc hopeful regarding the future. 1043 KLC 0 0 MAHONEY, Gerald Mr Mahoney - The price of bread has been raised. 1043 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - I hope that good prices for wheat will long continue. { Quorum formed.'] The absence of members of the Labour party from, the chamber indicates that they can find little fault with the budget. Further evidence of the satisfactory budgetary position of the Commonwealth is seen in the ability of the Government to grant remissions of taxes amounting to £3,868,000, notwithstanding heavier expenditure for the year estimated at £2,311,000. The total benefit for the year in this respect will be £6,179,000. The Treasurer has budgeted for a surplus of £45,000 on the year's transactions. I congratulate the Government on the excellent prospects before the country, and I anticipate an even better budget next year. I desire now to devote some attention to the subject of trade relations between Australia and Japan. On Friday last, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) sought to make party political capital out of the issue. Apparently the Labour party has become the advocate for Japan and other cheap-labour countries^ - a decided change of policy on its part. I take it of course that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition spoke on behalf of the Labour movement on Friday last. 1043 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - I can assure the honorable member that the party is behind me in this matter. 1043 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - Apparently it is a long way behind. There appears to be some misapprehension as to the reasons which actuated the Government in increasing the duties on cotton and artificial silk piece goods which served the purpose of pre venting heavy importations of these textiles from Japan. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has charged the Government with having acted hastily. As a matter of fact, the Government proceeded with every caution, and only after it had made, an exhaustive examination of the position. It acted only when it was convinced that restrictive measures were necessary in the interests of all sections of the Australian people. 1043 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - Why did not the Government take the opportunity to refer the matter to the Tariff Board? 1043 KZR 0 0 WHITE, Thomas Mr White - Because it was a revenue item of the tariff. 1043 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - The interjection of the Minister completely answers the honorable member's question. Personally I felt that the Government's action was too long delayed. On the other hand, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has taken exception to the steps taken. 1043 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - I take exception not to the protection of Australian industries, but to the diversion of trade from, one country to another at the expense of Australian wool-growers and primary producers. 1043 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - In the circumstances which existed, strong measures were necessary, and I am glad that the Government did something to rectify the position and stand by the Mother Country. Much has been said and written about Japan's unfavourable balance of trade with Australia. Let us examine the true position. Australian imports from Japan are made up almost entirely of completely manufactured goods, while on the other hand, Australia's exports to Japan consist principally of wool. 1043 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - Japan purchased £2,273,000 worth of Australian wheat last year. 1043 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - I have not overlooked that fact. As an instance of political somersaulting, the honorable member's speech in regard to this matter was interesting. Japan enjoys a far better trade balance with Australia than that of all our foreign wool-buyers. Will the Deputy Leader of the Opposition dispute that fact? There is another aspect of this question which should not be treated lightly : Australian manufacturers should be protected. Manufacturing is carried on in Japan under working conditions which make competition against its products almost impossible by any country enjoying what may be described as a western standard, of living. The honorable member knows that full well. He is always championing the cause of the workers of this country. 1044 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - I said that anything that the Government had done to protect the workers of Australia, has the full support of the party to which I belong. 1044 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - The Japanese cotton operatives receive wages expressed in Australian currency ranging from 8d. to ls. 7d. a day. Do honorable members opposite stand for these low wages in Australia ? 1044 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - Definitely not. That is why we have always stood for protecting Australian industries against the imports of other countries. 1044 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - Japan's constantly, increasing export of manufactured goods to Australia at extremely low prices is becoming a real problem to Australian manufacturers and all classes of Australian industry. I think the honorable member will agree with that. I have burned the midnight oil over this matter. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition knows these facts all too well. Some of the Labour members have addressed themselves to this question with their tongues in their cheeks. The honorable member for Cook (Mr. Garden) was the only member of the Labour party who supported the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. I am waiting with a great deal of interest to hear the views expressed by other members of the party. 1044 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - The Leader of the Opposition has made many statements in regard to this matter. 1044 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - If the Leader of the Opposition regarded this as an important matter, he should have dealt with it. 1044 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - He was chided by the Minister directing negotiations for trade treaties with championing the cause of Japan. 1044 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - Honorable members know that ordinary tariff levels are quite ineffective against imported goods from a country with industrial conditions such as are general in Japan. Already a number of Australian industries are suffering from this kind of Japanese competition. Had the Government not taken a firm stand on textiles and laid down a definite principle on the question of competition from Japan, Australia would have been faced in the near future with real industrial peril. 1044 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - The Labour party will support any increased protection of Australian manufactured goods, but it does not believe in the diversion of trade from one country to another at the expense of the Australian manufacturers. 1044 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - The Government's action protects the Australian workers and manufacturers, and I believe the great bulk of our people are behind the objective sought to be attained by the trade diversion policy. Great Britain grants to Australia a decided tariff preference as against all foreign countries. For instance, it has imposed most effective restrictions upon beef, mutton and lamb imports from Argentina and other South American meat producing countries. As the result of these preferences, Australia has been able to sell its primary products overseas and maintain national prosperity. Without British preferences and the British market, primary production in the Commonwealth would collapse, and ruin would stare us in the face. All honorable members are conversant with the facts. 1044 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - The honorable member is surely aware of the fact that Australia has given substantial preferences to Great Britain in return. 1044 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - We hope in turn that Great Britain will be lenient to us. It has been proved conclusively that just as the British market is valuable to Australia, the Australian market is valuable to Great Britain. So far as interdominion trade is concerned, our present trade policy seems to be formulated on right lines and we are doing everything possible to foster that trade. Australia pays a price for the concessions granted to it by the United Kingdom under the terms of the Ottawa agreement. When that agreement was first signed I did not think much of it, but in the light of recent experiences I must admit that it has done much good for Australia, and I offer my meed of praise to the Government responsible for the making of it. In return for the market it enjoys in Great Britain under the Ottawa agreement, Australia has agreed to give Britain, by tariff preferences, a reciprocal market in Australia for certain British manufactured goods - chiefly textiles. What is the actual position with regard to this trade? Japan had been making sensational headway in the Australian market for textiles. Owing to the standards of living and industrial conditions in Japan, competition in textiles by British and foreign countries had become increasingly difficult. Japan appears to have made a very special attempt to capture the British market for cottonpiece goods in Australia which is worth upwards of £4,000,000 to the United Kingdom. If this were allowed to continue, it would have completely upset our balance of sales and purchases with the United Kingdom. For the sale of our surplus butter, dried fruits, wine and frozen mutton, we depend on the British market. The Government took a wise step when it decided to place a check on Japanese imports. My desire is to see the Australian standard of living maintained and as the years roll on, I trust that it will steadily improve. I am one of those who believe that industry should pay the highest possible wages. I believe that countries can progress while at the same time continuing to pay high wages. I am tremendously concerned about the future standard of living in this country. I have no desire to see it reduced to that obtaining in some of the cheap labour countries of the world. 1045 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - We are all in agreement upon that. 1045 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - Australia will continue to progress. We can maintain our present standard of living. THE CHAIRMAN. - The honorable member's time has expired. 1045 KLC Denison 0 0 MAHONEY, Gerald Mr MAHONEY .- I have listened with great interest to the window-dressing speeches delivered by honorable members supporting the Government. It cannot be denied that the Government has made remissions of taxation to its wealthy supporters, because the wealthy people pay the highest taxes ; but considering the awful plight of the unemployed and the conditions under which they are forced to continue to eke out a bare existence, the Lyons Government has little upon which to compliment itself; it has failed absolutely in its obligations to that section of the people. In New South Wales a single man has to live on a dole of 6s. 6d. a week, and a married man with a wife has to live on a dole of 10s. a week. Do honorable members consider that that is fair treatment of the unemployed of this country? It may not be the standard of living to which the honorable member for Boothy (Mr. Price) referred, but I maintain that the Australian standard of living has declined because the unemployed have been forced to live under starvation conditions. Would any honorable member opposite care to maintain a wife on 10s. a week? The honorable member for Boothby has boasted of the wonderful action of the Government in relieving the people of this country of the burden of taxation to an amount of £5,000,000. Those remissions, however, have been enjoyed only by that section of the community which has never known the pangs of hunger and want. In Australia to-day we have the spectacle of want and misery constantly before us. All over Australia mothers are endeavouring to rear children and to suckle innocent babies on a dole allowance which does not permit them to purchase sufficient to nourish their offspring. It is a standing disgrace to civilization and to the Nationalist governments of this country that that state of affairs is permitted to continue. Thousands of unemployed in Australia are not concerned about the basic wage. They do not receive it. The payment to a mother of the maternity allowance is no remedy for the unemployment of her husband. The conditions under which mothers are asked to bring children into the world are disgraceful. Rickets are common because large numbers of children suffer from malnutrition. The Commonwealth Government has sole control in the Federal Capital Territory, and it alone must carry the blame for the wretched conditions under which some children have been reared in Canberra. It is not at all surprising that poor parents prefer not to raise families. 1046 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr Holt - Are not the conditions better now than they were in 1930? 1046 KLC 0 0 MAHONEY, Gerald Mr MAHONEY - In my opinion, the conditions of the poor in some of the capital cities are as bad as ever. "Would any honorable member ask a married couple living on the dole to bring children into the world? Honorable members opposite speak glibly about the importance of maintaining the Australian standards of living, but, in view of the cold facts of the situation, it is clearly seen that they are not prepared to assist in a practical way to overcome the evil of unemployment. [Quorum formed.] The improved conditions brought about among the unemployed in Tasmania are attributable to the activities of the Labour Government of that State, which has borrowed money through the Australian Loan Council, and put into operation schemes that have revolutionized the building trade. 1046 KV7 0 0 STEWART, Frederick Sir Frederick Stewart - The Commonwealth Government guarantees the repayment of loans to States. 1046 KLC 0 0 MAHONEY, Gerald Mr MAHONEY - The guarantee is that of the people of Australia. Tasmania, as part of the federation, is entitled to all the money that has been advanced. What has this Government done for the youth of Australia? The Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) promised at the last election that, if returned, he -would see that employment was found for the young people, but, on leaving school, they walk the streets without any hope of getting work. Have any schemes been put in hand to absorb them, in useful employment? They have been left to drift hopelessly, and some of them have married in order to obtain an increased dole. I was informed recently, in reply to a question, that in 1934 the overtime worked in the Patents Department in Canberra amounted to 5,761 hours, and that £1,496 was paid for it. In 1935, the overtime in this department fell to 1,567 hours, and the expenditure on that account dropped to £262. In 1936, however, the overtime rose to 9,446 hours, for which £2,S09 was paid. Yet at the time thousands of unemployed well educated youths were forced to sponge on their parents. I believe in a 40-hour week, but it is essential to abolish overtime. I shall tell the electors in my State that nien with " cushy " jobs in Canberra -were allowed to earn an extra £4.000 in. overtime in three years. What a wonderful example of administration! While members of this Government have been globetrotting and enjoying themselves at the expense of the taxpayers, thousands of men with wives and children have been unable to find any employment. The Government boasts that it has done well, and behaved charitably, by raising the invalid and old-age pension by ls. a week. The increase of house rents, disclosed by official statistics for the third quarter of this year, proves that the increase of ls. is now equivalent to only "i.0d., and I am quite sure that by the end of the year rents will have increased to such an extent that the benefit of the increase will have been wholly lost. Steps should be taken to prevent the increase of rents throughout Australia. I do not regard the pension, as a gift. Every member of the community in impoverished circumstances is entitled to it on reaching the age of 65 years. When a pensioner has the misfortune to enter a hospital or a benevolent institution, 13s. of the pension is paid to the institution. Of the latest increase of ls. a week 6d. is paid to the institution, but it should all go to the pensioner. Furthermore, I contend that upon his entering a hospital or other institution, the full pension should be paid to him for at least three months, to enable his home to be maintained until he is fit to leave the institution. I hn ve received a letter from the general secretary of the Pensioners League of Australia asking me to protest against the manner in which the Government has allowed pensioners in institutions to be deprived of the benefit of the increase of ls. a week. I am not satisfied that the Government is fully discharging its obligations to returned soldiers. I have recently had under my notice the case of an ex-soldier who has seven children. He took part in some of the biggest engagements in the late war, and is a physical wreck. I have a doctor's certificate, backed up by other medical opinion, to show that he was gassed. I submitted particulars of the case to the Minister for Repatriation (Mr. Hughes), who, to his credit, tried to obtain justice for this mau; but the policy adopted by the Repatriation Commission, and the medical men associated with them, is such that they are not prepared to give this unfortunate man fair consideration. Here is a medical certificate signed by a Dr. Arkins dealing with the case - This is to certify that C. Ford is suffering from fibrosis of the lungs, caused by the war, unci his condition is getting worse. That certificate is backed up by the opinions of four other doctors, who have stated that the mau is unfit for work. Notwithstanding this, however, the department has refused to give him a pension. If that certificate were submitted to the court in support of a claim under the Workers Compensation Act, it would be accepted without question, but it will not be accepted by the Repatriation Department. I say that that condition of affairs is a disgrace, and I will fight this case to a finish. During the war, I heard those who spoke at recruiting campaigns telling men that, if only they would go and fight, their grateful country would look after them upon their return, and if they were injured in health, they would he fully compensated. Yet to-day the State Government in Tasmania must keep this man and his seven little children, although the obligation to do so clearly rests upon the Commonwealth. The doctors who treated him in hospital for eleven months stated definitely that he was suffering from war disabilities. He i3 one of the many victims of the war, one of that vast army of men burnt out and broken in health as the result of the terrible experiences they endured, but the Repatriation Department now declines io honour the promise given to them before they went to the war. In another instance, a poor unfortunate soldier in Tasmania had to commit suicide before he was able to secure justice for his wife and children. 1047 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir Archdale Parkhill - He did not have to do it. 1047 KLC 0 0 MAHONEY, Gerald Mr MAHONEY - Yes he did; the Government drove him to it. That was the only way in which he could obtain anything for his wife and starving family. He had served four years at the Avar, his nerves wore shattered, and his health was broken, but the department refused to support him or his family. I know of another case in which a returned soldier named Davis, who had been drawing a pension for sixteen years because of defective eyesight due to war service, suddenly had his pension stopped. He had been discharged from the forces as medically unfit through illness not due to misconduct, contracted on active service and he had been granted a pension. During the succeeding sixteen years he was examined periodically by an eye specialist, and was certified as being qualified for a pension. When this specialist died, the man was sent before a medical board, and examined by a doctor who had never seen him before. This doctor stated that the man's sight had been defective before he joined the army, and his pension was stopped. I have brought this case under the notice of the Repatriation Commission, and have been told that the commission proposes to stand by its decision. 1 am glad that I declined to accept the invitation of those who, during the war, urged me to join the army so that I might go overseas and fight for them. Had I done so, I might now be ruined in health, and dependent on charity for support. I agree that the blame does not lie with the Minister for Repatriation, who has done everything humanly possible ' to help the interests of returned soldiers. When I spoke to him concerning the first case mentioned by m* to-night, he said that I. had made out a prima facie case, and promised to communicate with the Repatriation Commission with a view to obtaining a rapid and sympathetic review of it. Although it is composed of returned soldiers, the Repatriation Commission does not accord to other returned men the sympathy which they deserve. I am afraid that the returned soldiers who are members of the commission, having attained a position in which they have no struggle for a livelihood and have no worries, allow their sympathy for their comrades to wane. The Government is the final court of appeal on behalf of those men who are denied the compensation to which they are entitled. Tt is its duty to see that these men get justice. When 1 appealed for a charitable grant to the Tasmanian social service organization, which assists Mr. Ford to pay his rem and buy food and clothing for his wife and family, that organization, without hesitation, decided to increase his allowance by 15s. a fortnight. The doctor associated with it refused to allow Ford to undertake any work on the ground that, if he did so, he would die. Contrast his attitude with that of the Repatriation Commission, in denying the man sustenance! The Repatriation Commission is failing in its obligation to the returned men at a time when Australia, in common with other nations, is preparing for the next war. The Minister for Defence (Sir Archdale Parkhill) knows the extent to which this country is going in the matter of defence. He is appealing for the solid support of the people to preserve this great continent of ours from invasion. We on this side of the House have had levelled against us the unwonted charge that we stand for a lowering of the standards of living in this country. On the contrary, the Labour party stands for the maintenance of living conditions at the highest possible level. Far from encouraging the breaking down of the conditions of the Australian worker, this party would raise them. The statement has also been hurled at us across this chamber that we are un-British and disloyal. My loyalty is greater than that of any honorable member supporting the Government. I, with my colleagues, am fighting for the women and children of this country, whilst supporters of the Government fight merely in the interests of their wealthy friends. 1048 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr Holt - 'What are the conditions in Tasmania? 1048 KLC 0 0 MAHONEY, Gerald Mr MAHONEY - The conditions in Tasmania under a Labour government are the best in the Commonwealth. Single unemployed are receiving sustenance of 15s. 5d. a week. A man with a wife receives 22s. a week, and an additional 5s. 6d. is paid to a man and wife with one child. The scale of payments increases proportionately. Contrast that with what is happening to-day in Victoria and New South Wales. The Government of New South Wales is perpetrating shocking injustices on the unemployed, and it is no exaggeration to say that the plight of the dole workers in that State is the worst in the Empire. In England, for instance, the unemployed are 200 per cent, better off than the unemployed in New South Wales under the blight of the Stevens Government. Instead of attacking the police and the Communist party, colleagues of honorable members opposite who are members of the Parliament of New South Wales, should turn their attacks upon the Premier, Mr. Stevens. The honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Price) boasted that this Government had assisted the wheat-growers to the extent of millions of pounds, but wheat to-day is 5s. 2d. a bushel and, as the result, the basic wage workers, the sustenance workers, and those on the dole have to pay a higher price for bread. What treatment is it to mete out to the poor that the mothers of our future defenders are compelled to suckle their offspring on a diet of dry bread ! There are 'few honorable members opposite at the moment. Apparently their colleagues have left the chamber with their heads bowed in shame. I condemn the Treasurer for his refusal to entertain a recommendation by the Commonwealth Grants Commission that the Government of Tasmania should receive a greater amount of assistance, in order to enable it to provide work in the forests. That recommendation was refused because the State is controlled by a Labour government. The commission reported, however, that the Government of Tasmania, as constituted to-day, is the best, most honest, and most courageous government that that State has ever experienced. If the required grant had been made, the Tasmanian Government could have inaugurated a forestry policy by which the future fathers of the boys who will be called upon to become soldiers for the defence of this Commonwealth could have been placed in work and trained in an occupation which, later in life, would enable them to earn wages sufficient to keep them and their dependants in good health. It is astounding that, realizing Tasmania's need for this grant, this Government could refuse to make it, and at the same time distribute relief to its wealthy supporters to an amount of £5,000,000. The Tasmanian Labour Government has done a magnificent job. It has lifted the standard of the dole worker, increased prosperity in the building trade, and generally improved the conditions in the State. For instance, it is building hospitals. It has had erected a new wing at one hospital at which the future working-class mothers will have the best medical attention and the best nursing free of charge. The dream of my life is one of more and better hospitals for the mothers of the poorer classes, for it is they who are the most patriotic and the most conscientious in their desire to preserve a white Australia; they fulfil their obligation to their country by having large families of magnificent children, on whose shoulders will rest Australia's defence.. They are unlike the wealthy people of New South Wales and other parts of this Commonwealth who content themselves with poodle dogs. During a national emergency, the sons of the working classes will be expected to fight in Australia and not leave our country. The Government cannot contend that it has enacted legislation to benefit the Australian people, and particularly the unemployed, the mothers and the youths of Australia. When an appeal is next made to the people, the electors will show their dissatisfaction with the present Administration by placing a Labour government in power. During the six years an anti-Labour Government has been in office nothing has been done to improve the standard of living, which in many instances is far too low. Every effort should be made to care for the mothers and to find work for the deserving youth of this country, who should have the right to become useful citizens. 1049 10000 0 0 CHAIRMAN, The The CHAIRMAN - The honorable member has exhausted his time. 1049 JPN Bourke 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN . - During the discussion on the budget reference has been made to the defence policy of Australia, and I take this opportunity to contribute to the discussion on that subject. It seems to me that Australia should first make up its mind whether it has a defence problem of its own - whether it has a danger of its own, or whether it is only exposed to a danger' common to the world. If Australia has a danger of its own, it is obvious that it can come only from Japan. 1 do not think that it can be seriously believed that there is any desire on the part of Japan to annex Australia. The experience of the world shows that prudent nations, seeking aggrandizement, develop along a contiguous line of territory without outlying provinces detached from the main body. These would lead to considerable embarrassment of the metropolitan countries unless they wereprepared to proceed upon principles which Great Britain developed, mainly by accident, of letting dominions go on in their own way with a great measure of autonomy. The experience of the United States of America, Russia and Japan indicates thai the successful method of building up an empire is by annexing contiguous or practically contiguous territory. Japan cannot, of course, escape the limitations imposed by the sea, but its empire is very much what Canute's' English empire might have become. A Danish monarchy, with its head-quarters in Eng'.and, embraced much of Scotland and Ireland, Scandinavia and the islands north of Britain, and it isquite conceivable that, in course of time, it would have extended to the continent, where there were Scandinavian settlements in Normandy and Italy. Japan is extending so far as it can into contiguous territories, and making itself the centre of an empire, all of which will be. close at hand. It seems to me that there is no real likelihood of Japan engaging in a war of aggression with the object of annexing Australia. What is now happening will eventually lead to the independence of the Philippines - territory nearer to Japan than is Australia. If Japan requires an outlet foi its increasing population, it has the Philippines in which to settle migrants, and, in fact, is now making considerable settlement there. 1049 KOC 0 0 HAWKER, Charles Mr Hawker - Is there no restriction upon Japanese settlement in the Philippines ? 1049 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - One city in the Philippine Islands consists of practically all Japanese. 1050 KOC 0 0 HAWKER, Charles Mr Hawker - I think that there is some restriction now. 1050 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I am guided by statements in Judge Malcolm's book, published only this year, in which he does not appear to refer to restrictions. To-day there are 20,000 Japanese in the Philippines, 13,000 of whom live in the City of Davao. There can, of course, be no effective exclusion of the Japanese from the Philippines, because the United States of America has given a great measure of self-government to that territory. 1050 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - The forecast is that the act giving a measure of self-government will be repealed. 1050 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I think that the forecast is wrong. 1050 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - It is not mine. 1050 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - A great many who desire the United States of America to continue with the imperialist policy adopted in the late 'nineties consider that this abandonment will mean the abandonment of America's interest in China. I am inclined to think that many Americans are pacifically inclined and feel that America's interest in China may involve the United States of America with Japan. The United States of America does not want to engage in a war with Japan, and does not want to be responsible for the administration of the Philippines, where the people are racially allied with the Japanese. The area of the Philippine Islands is about the same as that of Japan. The population of Japan is seven times greater than the population of the Philippine Islands, which are only 61 miles from the nearest Japanese island. It seems, therefore, that if there is to be any Japanese expansion, it will be in the direction of the Philippines, and thereafter Indonesia, rather than in the acquisition of an outlying island continent. It is, however, quite reasonable to expect that some action by Australia might arouse the enmity of Japan. Some references have been made to regional pacts. I do not propose to engage in a discussion of the merits of the tariff policy of the Lyons Government, but it is unfortunate that we should, with one blow, have antagonized two of our most powerful neighbours, and that action will require much explaining. I cannot understand why any government of this Commonwealth should, just before an election of the President of the United States of America, hold a pistol to the head of the government of that continent and say : " You must make concessions to us ." It is perfectly obvious that the party now in power in the United States of America is the one which is most partial to reciprocal tariffs, and if it cannot do anything because it fears that the people of the United States of America will not approve of it, we are not likely to get it to do, in the last year of the presidential term of office, what it might be able to do in the first year. But that is by the way. Leaving that which appears to be Australia's special problem, I consider that the external dangers which await Australia are dangers of a world war; that is to say, a war arising not from disputes in the Pacific Ocean, but from the general world situation. There is a danger of Australia being involved in a world war which will involve most countries, and may even divide individual nations upon party lines. There are three ways in which Australia can approach the 'problem of war and its own defence : first, from the viewpoint of those who advocate imperial defence, which implies that Australia's preparations should be integrated with the general Imperial preparations; secondly, the isolationist viewpoint; and thirdly, what I shall term the internationalist viewpoint. The proposal that Australia's war preparation) should be integrated with Imperial preparations is closely connected with the advocacy that the Empire should be one economic unit; that there should be a closed Empire, the different parts of which must trade with one another to the exclusion so far as possible of other countries. I have always believed that such is not only a dangerous policy, but is also wrong in principle, and experience convinces me that it is even more dangerous than I originally believed. The tariff should be used only to develop one's own industries, and not as a means of offence or aggression against any other nation. If a country is prepared to make trade arrangements with other nations, it should make them without discrimina- tion. It should not grant to any one country, no matter how close may be the ties of kinship and affection, concessions that it denies to others. That is my view of the matter, but it does not affect the argument which I am endeavouring to present. When we consider the scheme for integrating Australia's defence preparations with Imperial preparations we discover that it will mean much more than we care to admit. We must realize that the position of Great Britain, especially as to its control of waterways, is not what it was a year or two ago. If we regard the waterway which we have known, ever since the opening of the Suez Canal, as the spinal column of the British Commonwealth of Nations, we must confess that the spinal column is fractured, and that there is no likelihood that Great Britain will ever be able again to rely on the Mediterranean Sea or the Red Sea as secure waterways. 1051 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - That would depend upon its control of the Mediterranean. 1051 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir Archdale Parkhill - Certainly. 1051 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - And also on its control of the Red Sea. Italy not only holds an important position on the African side of the Red Sea, but it has also acquired the Island of Dumerab, which occupies an effective strategical position in the Red Sea. As the Minister for Defence (Sir Archdale Parkhill) and the honorable member for Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron) have stated, the matter is one more concerning the Mediterranean than the Red Sea. 1051 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - There is no power in the Red Sea which is not a Mediterranean power. 1051 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - That is so. Still, even if the Mediterranean Sea were open, the Red Sea would still present a problem. But the Mediterranean Sea itself is the principal problem. It is very close to becoming an Italian lake. If the Mediterranean Sea falls into the hands of another power, it is immaterial to Great Britain who controls it, because all powers at the present time are potential enemies of Great Britain; everything depends upon the alliances in which the powers group themselves. Italy, by developing what was the small base of Pantellaria into a big base has closed up the centre of the Mediterranean Sea. 1051 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - That base is dominated by Malta. 1051 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - That is not so; many people are beginning to realize that fact. Malta is dominated from the air, and Pantellaria is becoming a base of vast strategical importance, and a rival to Malta. 1051 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - Pantellaria is small in comparison with Malta. 1051 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - It is assuming considerable importance in the strategy of the Mediterranean Sea, being almost mid-way between Tunis, which Italy has always regarded as its own, and out of w hich it considers that it was swindled 60 years ago, and Sicily which is Italian territory. Further on, Italy has a base in the Aegean Sea, the Dodecarese Islands which controls the entrance to the Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea. 1051 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - Turkey controls them. 1051 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I do not agree with that; but no matter who controls them, the important fact to Great Britain is that these positions are in the hands of nations which are potential enemies. It seems to me that Britain's free control of those waterways, the Mediterranean Sea and the Red Sea, is impaired and, that in future the British Navy will be divided into one force for the Atlantic region, and another for the Pacific. Very active Imperial preparations for war will be made in the Pacific Ocean. 1051 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - For defence purposes. 1051 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - If Australia allows its preparations to become part of that Imperial preparation, it will be committed to a very great deal. The great change in the status of the self-governing units of the Empire is significant in this respect. The Statute of Westminster, with its concession of almost complete nationality and self-government to the various parts of the Empire, is in my opinion, the prelude to a re-organization of the Empire by devolving upon the dominions a part of the responsibility now resting upon Great Britain itself. I ask honorable members to consider upon whom the responsibility for the defence of the Pacific Ocean will devolve under the Imperial scheme. Obviously, it must be upon Australia and New Zealand. It cannot devolve upon South Africa, and it is not likely to devolve upon Canada, which would probably not accept the responsibility. Canada's position is one to be envied. It has whatever security attaches to it as a part of the British Empire, but also has the much greater measure of security which attaches to it as a part of the American continent, protected as it is by the considerable power of the United States of America as well as by the sentiment that exists on the American continent against foreign interference. Whatever is to be done in the South Pacific will have to be done largely by Australia and New Zealand. The second possibility is that Australia should engage in what is described as an isolationist policy of defence; that it should prepare for defence without in any way subordinating its preparations to those of the Empire, or incorporating or integrating them in those preparations. I do not think that that is really possible. I should say that as what in time of peace is referred to as the danger of war grows nearer and nearer, the preparations made by a dominion will become a part of the imperial preparations. There is a precedent for that in Australia. The preparations for war that were made by Australia in the first decade of this century and in the first half of the second decade, although intended to be isolationist preparations, became slowly and imperceptibly merged in those of the Empire. I believe that an isolationist policy of defence can but involve this country in a great deal more than it conceives to be the case. A policy of defence cannot be pursued by any country except at very great cost. It seems to me unthinkable that reliance should be placed upon the enthusiasm of levies raised when war is at hand. The experience of every country seems to condemn that policy. There is a very interesting examination of it in a fairly old book, C. H. Pearson's National Life and Character. The author of thatwork discredits the traditions that the revolution in France was defended by armies raised adhoc, and that the revolutionary war in the United States of America between Britain and America was fought by the colonists in the same manner: If preparations for war are to be made by Australia, they will have to be made on such a scale that very considerable cost will be involved. Nations that so prepare naturally tend to become what is called Fascist nations; that is to say, the form of government, and the organization of nations preparing for war is naturally that which subordinates every interest of the country to its warlike needs, and which suppresses every minority opinion. After the debacle of the League of Nations in connexion with the handling of the Abyssinian situation, nations that were supporters of the League were transformed into Fascist nations almost overnight. The Fascization of Rumania is an interesting illustration of that. Small nations which find that they cannot rely upon collective security are naturally driven to prepare for war, and this preparation forces a nation to curtail costly social services, to suppress minorities that might weaken the will to war, and to try to present a united front to the rest of the world. It seems to me that if Australia were seriously to undertake its defence on an isolationist basis, its dangers would be as great as on an Imperial basis. Should it make preparations on an Imperial basis, it might be called on to suppress popular movements in China, in India, or in Farther India; and should the preparations be on an isolationist basis its social services would be slashed, because the country would not be able to afford them and at the same time bear the cost of a large defence bill; and minority opinion would be suppressed in order that a united front might be presented to possible foes. Consequently, tremendous danger to Australia is associated with both of those policies. It seems to me, therefore, that the people of Australia should endeavour to secure what has been sought for so long, namely collective security. 1052 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - We have collective insecurity at the present time. 1052 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - That, in my opinion, is largely due to the fact that nations are animated and dominated by the spirit of fear. Each nation fears every other nation. Some little while ago. the people of Japan were being led to fear Australia. During the earthquake in that country, Australia sent a cargo of wheat to ease possible famine. The approach of the vessel to Japanese shores filled a number of Japanese children with fear. The thought in their minds was, " Now that we are in trouble, the people in Australia have sent ships here to make war on us ". 1053 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - Where did the honorable member learn that? 1053 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I have previously mentioned it in this chamber. The statement was made by a Japanese delegate to an Australian delegate at a conference held in Honolulu. 1053 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir Archdale Parkhill - Would the honorable member regard it as authoritative? 1053 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I would, because I know the woman to whom it was said. The Japanese delegate was a lady school teacher. She had a school of children out on the cliff. As the ship approached, she drew their attention to it and asked them if they knew anything about it. As soon as they heard that it had come from Australia, they expressed the fear that it waa going to attack them. The war spirit is kept alive between nations by appeals to fear. 1053 KVU 0 0 THOMPSON, Victor Mr Thompson - The Government of Japan thanked Australia for that consignment of wheat. 1053 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - Naturally it did. So did the Japanese people who benefited from it. 1053 KZF 0 0 LANE, Albert Mr Lane - The fear of the children had its genesis in their imagination. 1053 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - That is so. But nations are merely children of larger growth. The honorable member was once a child, and he still cherishes the prejudices that he imbibed at school. Nations are animated by fear of one another. The peoples of the world are not really filled with the desire to attack one another. 1053 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir Archdale Parkhill - Where is the collective security to which the honorable member referred a little while ago? 1053 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - The League of Nations failed. Why? There are very many reasons which one could suggest for its failure. I advance as the real reason, that the big nations who are partners in the League of Nations were more concerned about preserving the status quo for themselves, than about collective security. It is obvious to me that, so long as the League of Nations merely strives to preserve the world as it stands to-day - big nations and little nations, nations that are satisfied and nations that are hungry for expansion - there will be no form of collective security. It is of no use to sit down and say " We pinned our faith to the League of Nations, putting all our hopes' in it. It has failed, and, therefore, it is no good. We will not worry any more about collective security ". 1053 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr Holt - It is only a league of some nations. 1053 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - That is so; but ic failed largely because it was distrusted. Countries like Rumania, Czechoslovakia, Finland,- Latvia, Esthonia, and other small nations of the world, cannot do much towards the achievement of collective security. 1053 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - No nations are more desirous to maintain the status quo than the nations mentioned by the honorable member. 1053 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - The honorable member for Barker has not yet got my point. The smaller countries of the world cannot do anything effective to achieve collective security, but the great nations of the world, and particularly the British Commonwealth of Nations, of which we are a part, can do a great deal. Britain has an enormous colonial empire, of which the self-governing dominions are only a part. Below these self-governing dominions in status is a great and rich territory mainly inhabited by subject peoples. I believe that Great Britain could do a great deal by means of these territories to achieve collective security, and that Australia should endeavour to influence it to do what it can in this regard. Until a few years ago Britain kept for all the nations of the world practically an open door to these territories. It could not be said, up to a certain period, that Britain had exploited these countries solely in the interests of British people, but to-day it dees so exploit them. It may be said that the sentiment of Great Britain is approximately that of France and the Netherlands, which countries also have great colonial empires. 1054 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - But with very different sentiments. 1054 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I do not think go. The sentiment of the peoples of France and the Netherlands approximates to that of the people of Great Britain. What I am about to suggest is not merely my own idea, although I have thought along this line for some time. It is an idea that has recently been enunciated by Sir Stafford Cripps. The proposal is that Britain should take the initiative by offering to place its non-self-governing territories under international control, and invite the other nations of the world to co-operate in developing them. 1054 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - Britain did that at the 1933 economic conference. 1054 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I do not think so. The plan that I am now advocating Las never been actually tried. 1054 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr Holt - But all those territories are under some measure of self-government. 1054 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - That is not so. Even Newfoundland has reverted to the status of a Crown colony. It cannot be said that either the Great African or Oceanic possessions of Britain have any real form of self-government. Even Fiji is without real self -government. Australia should exert its influence with Great Britain to have these territories placed on a basis quite different from that on which they now stand, so that the prime interest in them should be. the cultural and material well-being of their inhabitants. That should be the first consideration. Secondly, no nation should have superior rights over other nations in access to the raw materials of these territories. If Britain would adopt that attitude in respect of these particular territories, it is probable that France, and almost certain, that the Netherlands would adopt a like attitude in regard to similar territories under their control. Each of these countries, it must be remembered, is exposed to considerable European risks. Britain should invite the Scandinavian countries, and also any other countries that are willing, to associate in an international trust empowered to develop these territories along the lines I have suggested. 1054 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir Archdale Parkhill - And that would constitute our defence? 1054 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - It would constitute an attempt to realize collective security. 1054 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - That sounds like the policy of the English and the Danes before Alfred the Great, when the Danegeld was imposed. 1054 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I think the honorable member's history is a little astray. The Danegeld was first imposed under Ethelred, the Unready. It seems to me that the adoption of an imperialistic policy of defence will ultimately make the Australian people responsible for the control and, in the end, the suppression of the Asiatic people. 1054 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir Archdale Parkhill - Not necessarily. 1054 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - This must obviously be so. An isolationist policy in Australia will mean that Australia will ultimately become a Fascist country in which the social services that mean so much to us will be either discontinued or cut to the bone, and minority opinion will be entirely stifled. That is the natural outcome of either an imperialistic or an isolationist policy of defence. 1054 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr Brennan - The imperialistic policy certainly. 1054 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir Archdale Parkhill - There seems to be some difference in the honorable member's own party on this subject. 1054 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - A defence policy such as the Government envisages must have the results that I have mentioned. I think, therefore, that Australia should not be involved in preparations for defence until all the possibilities of maintaining peace on the basis of collective security have been exploited. The attempts so far made to keep the peace by collective security have failed, because the nations have not been sincere in their expressed desires. If the nations really desire to achieve collective security they must be ready to make sacrifices. They must be prepared to bring into existence, not a. confederacy such as the League of Nations more or less is, which requires unanimous decision before any- thing can be done, but an authority which will be above the nations and to which will be committed the exclusive power to exercise military force - if military force should be exercised at all. If Britain does not take the initiative in encouraging the adoption of a policy such as that suggested by Sir StaffordCripps and other people, it will be impossible to maintain peace for either itself or its dominions. 1055 KZF 0 0 LANE, Albert Mr Lane - Has not Britain already taken the initiative? 1055 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - It did so at both the disarmament and the economic conferences. 1055 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - I am glad that the honorable gentleman made that interjection. It reminded me that the initiative that Great Britain took with the object of maintaining peace was not so completely disinterested as has been suggested. Great Britain said in effect, " We have as much of the world as it is possible for us to have under any arrangement that can be made. Our dominions are as large as it is possible for them to be. We are, therefore, prepared to stop at this point. We will disarm on this basis, for it will let us keep what we have." That seems to me to be the great weakness of all the proposals that Britain has so far made for disarmament. Such proposals would, in fact, leave Great Britain, France, the Netherlands and Portugal, and, in fact, all the nations of the world which now hold large undeveloped territories, in full possession of those areas, and the other nations would not have access to them. 1055 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr Brennan - That would apply even to the mandated territories. 1055 JPN 0 0 BLACKBURN, Maurice Mr BLACKBURN - In my opinion, the so-called mandates over certain territories are only another form of annexation. They are a camouflaged form of annexation. The mandated territories are, to all intents and purposes, actually the possessions of the governments which hold the mandates. I am inclined to think that the mandate scheme was devised in order to allow the allied nations practically to annex the countries over which they were given mandates. That of course, is the attitude taken up by Japan. It says, in effect, "I let you call them a mandate so long as it suited me, but you were under no illusion about my attitude towards them, nor was I". It seems to me that if the Australian people, and the British race as a whole, are prepared to continue as they are now doing, the future is dangerous. Much time is wasted over discussions as to the actual form of defence Australia should adopt, whereas the chief thing any nation should be trying to do now is to minimize the risks of war and the necessity for defence, and these can only be minimized if great nations - not, as I said before, small nations like Latvia or Esthonia, but nations like Britain or France - make a real gesture for world peace and collective security. If Britain is not prepared to do that, I cannot see anything ahead but Australia and Britain becoming involved in a war which would prove to be the end of the British Empire. It is all very well to talk as if the Empire could never come to an end. It is only one of a chain of colonial empires which have existed throughout history. Holland built its colonial empire on the ruins of the colonial empires of Spain and Portugal. In turn, Britain built its Empire mainly on the ruins of the Dutch colonial empires. Upon what ruins is another colonial empire to be built? Progress reported. 1055 adjournment 1055 Motion (by Sir Archdale Parkhill) proposed - That the House do now adjourn. 1055 009FQ Fremantle 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr CURTIN I am astonished at the vagueness and the generally unsatisfactory nature of the replies of the Minister for Defence to-day concerning the proposed overseas air mail agreement. Although the country has not been told that the basis of the negotiations contemplates a fifteen-year period, it now appears that that is the case, and the Minister did not deny the substance of my interrogation on this point. He said that the Government had not accepted the fifteen year period, hut he did not say that the Government would not accept that period. I also understand that overseas air mails addressed to Perth, on arrival at Darwin, instead of proceeding by the most direct route to the Western Australian capital, will have to be taken to Sydney before being re-despatched. It is difficult for the Opposition to glean the facts in connexion with this proposed agreement, but sufficient has been learned to suggest that its general purport ties the Commonwealth up to a long-term agreement for a service which must be at present experimental and whose general value to the Commonwealth is exceedingly doubtful. The Opposition can only hope that the Government in its eagerness to accept some agreement with Great Britain on this point will resolutely stand out for a short-term agreement - certainly not longer than three years - so that its general principles may be revised in the light of a reasonable experience, and, in any event, that those parts of the Commonwealth now in receipt of mails by air from London will not, as the result of the change, find the service slower instead of faster. A more authoritative assurance on these points should at once be given by the Government. In view of the fact that these negotiations have been carried on for some time, and that a great deal of speculation must inevitably be entered upon regarding the ultimate nature of the agreement, the Government owes to this Parliament some more authoritative assurance than it has yet given in respect of Australia's retention of control over its internal air services. I cannot allow the occasion to pass without intimating most definitely that the possibility of a fifteen-year agreement would be regarded by the Opposition as entirely reprehensible. Such an agreement would take from not only this Parliament, but also several futureParliaments, authority over a major matter of national importance. If the Government intends to enter into an agreement with the Government of the United Kingdom or any British authority in respect of air mail services, that agreement should be subject to review within a reasonably early period. In other words, after it has been in operation for two or three years at the most, there ought to be available to the successors of this Government, an absolute freedom to review the entire situation. This is too experimental a matter at this stage for the country to be committed to an agreement based upon uncertain data. 1056 KXQ Warringah UAP Minister for Defence 1 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL . - in reply - The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) has just referred in more detail to a matter upon which he asked me some questions to-day. The information which I gave him in reply substantially covers the references which he has just made. I pointed out in the debate when the adjournment of the House was moved in connexion with this matter, that the negotiations were proceeding and that it was difficult to explain to the House from period to period, the progress that had been made because in all such discussions the outlook changes from day to day. I also stated that when the final details had been settled and an agreement which the Government considered to be in the interests of this country was reached, the matter would be referred to the Parliament for its approval. As to the term of fifteen years, I said clearly, and I reiterate the statement now, that that period is contained in the proposal. But I said with equal clarity that the Government had not agreed to that term, and that all the factors, many of which occur to members of the Government as well as to the Leader of the Opposition, will be taken into consideration before a final decision is made. My personal view is that provision for a review of the contract will form part of any agreement entered into. There may, however, be advantages in a long term, particularly from the point of view of finance. I repeat that all these considerations have yet to be settled. Not only the views expressed this evening by the Leader of the Opposition, but also those voiced in an earlier discussion on this subject, will receive the consideration of the Government before it makes its final decision. The honorable member for Fremantle suggested a review of the agreement every few years. 1056 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - I suggested that the first review should take place within three years. 1056 KXQ NAT; UAP from 1931 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL - I can only repeat that a term of fifteen years is contained in the proposal, that nothing has been done by the Government which would commit either it or the Parliament to that term, and that the fullest consideration will be given to all factors before a decision is arrived at. 1057 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - Is the Minister prepared to give an assurance that a term of years approximating fifteen years will not be agreed upon? 1057 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - I should not like to give that assurance on behalf of the Government until all the facts have been fully considered. I can only say that the Government will do, in relation to this matter, what it thinks best in the interests of the country, and will bring its proposals before Parliament. 1057 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - Will not any agreement have to come before Parliament for confirmation? 1057 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - It will then be too late, especially when the Government has so many docile followers. 1057 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - In this matter every member probably has his own definite opinion. The honorable gentleman referred to the distribution of the mail after arrival at Sydney. I remind him that the mails from Europe now arrive at Fremantle, and that distribution takes place in Western Australia at an earlier date than in any of the eastern States. 1057 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - The Minister is referring to mail which arrives by sea. 1057 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - Before the air mail was established, the only method of bringing mail was by ships which called first atFremantle. 1057 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - That was geographically inevitable. 1057 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - The same applies to Sydney in respect of mail arriving by air. 1057 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - That is ridiculous. 1057 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - For many years before the establishment of the air mail, Perth received substan tial benefit from the distribution of the mail in that city before it reached the other capital cities of Australia. The mail for Sydney had to travel overland by rail from Perth. Now the honorable member appears to object to the mail being distributed first at Sydney, and that for Western Australia sent by rail instead of by air. 1057 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - Why cannot the mailbe landed at Darwin, and despatched from there to various destinations in Australia by inland air mail services? 1057 KXQ 0 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL - That is an aspect which will certainly be considered. Whilst not expressing a definite opinion on this subject on behalf of the Government, my own view is that the honorable member's suggestion is not unreasonable. This subject has involved a great many considerations; the main principles have practically been decided upon. The modifications asked for by the Commonwealth Government, to which I referred in a previous speech, have been considered by the British Government, whose reply is now to hand. That reply has not yet been fully considered by the officers of the Civil Aviation and Postal Departments. Until that consideration has been given to it - and in this connexion I can give an assurance there will be no undue delay - I ask the House to believe that the Government desires to come to a final conclusion speedily regarding this subject, and will bring it before Parliament at the earliest opportunity. Question resolved in the affirmative. House adjourned at 11.7 p.m. 1057 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS The following answers to questions were circulated: - 1057 1057 C7E CP 0 0 PAGE, Earle Dr Earle Page e. - On the 9thOctober, the honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Price) asked the following questions, upon notice - What was the quantity and value of all kinds of dried fruits imported into the United Kingdom for the year ended the 30th June, 1936, from (a) foreign countries, and (b) the dominions ? What was the quantity of (a) raisins, (b) currants, and (c) other dried fruits, imported from Australia to the United Kingdom during that year? What was the value of the driedfruits imported into Australia during that year? What was the quantity and value of dried fruits consumed in Australia during that year? I am now in a position to furnish the following information : - The imports from Australia of " other dried fruits " for the period under review are not shown separately in United Kingdom statistics. The exports from Australia to the United Kingdom for the year 1935-36 were as follows: - Imports into Australia of dried fruits for the year 1935-36 were valued at £69,000 (sterling). Practically the whole of these importations are comprised of dates imported from Iraq. Figures showing consumption of dried fruits for the year ended the 30th June, 1936, are not available. Consumption of sultanas, currants and lexias in Australia is approximately 13,200 tons, having an estimated value of £664,640, and of other dried fruits 800 tons, the estimated value being £295,000. 1058 1058 JTY CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON n asked the Minister for Repatriation, upon notice - What avenues of employment, methods of making a living, or avocations are open, in practice, to soldiers who are declared to be permanently and totally incapacitated? 1058 DQC UAP 1 0 HUGHES, William Morris Mr Hughes - The term totally and permanently incapacitated is defined in the Australian Soldiers' Repatriation Act as meaning " incapacitated for life to such an extent as to be precluded from earning other than a negligible percentage of a living wage ". No avenue of employment, method of making a living or avocation is open to members so pensioned - the amount of pension being in fact adequate for their support - but some such members do, in fact, occupy themselves by engaging in casual light selective occupations in which their earnings are negligible. In such cases war pensions paid are as follows: - Member, £8 a fortnight; wife, £1 16s. a fortnight; each eligible child. 15s. a fortnight. 1058 1058 KVU 0 0 THOMPSON, Victor Mr Thompson n asked the Assistant. Minister for Commerce, upon notice - Will he obtain from the various State authorities administering the Commonwealth farmers' debt relief scheme a report showing (a) the number of farmers in each State who have availed themselves of the scheme up to the present; (b) the total amount of Commonwealth money made available in each State; (c) the total number of persons in each State who have been refused assistance under the schemes; and (d) a general review in each State of the procedure appliedby the authorities to deal with applications, and the conditions specifically applied in each State; 1058 KWC CP 0 0 THORBY, Harold Mr Thorby - The various States are being approached with a view to obtaining the information desired by the honorable member. 1058 1058 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr Beasley y asked the Minister for Commerce, upon notice - Will he state what changes, if any, are being made in the administration of the Marine Branch of his department? In the event of any changes being made, will he see that the convenience and safety of shipping is made the first consideration when deciding transfers of the staff of the Marine Branch to Canberra? 1058 C7E CP 0 0 PAGE, Earle Dr Earle Page - The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows : - It is proposed to transfer to the Depart ment of the Interior the responsibility for lighthouse construction work, and to transfer to that department certain lighthouse engineers whose services are required for general works construction activities. A senior lighthouse engineer will be attached to the Marine Branch Secretariat, which it is proposed to transfer to Canberra at an early date. Yes. The necessary technical navigation and lighthouse staffs to ensure the convenience and safety of shipping will be available in all States. SouthAustralia Grant. 1058 F4O UAP 1 0 LYONS, Joseph Aloysius Mr Lyons s. - On the 7th October, the honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Price) asked me a question without notice regarding an application received from the Premier of South Australia for additional financial assistance on account of losses due to droughts and frosts which had been experienced in that State. I now desire to inform the honorable member that the matter has been given full consideration, but that the Commonwealth Government has been unable to see its way clear to assume financial responsibility for such losses. It has been pointed out to the Premier that this is necessarily a State responsibility and that it is closely wrapped up in other phases of State policy over which the Commonwealth Government has no jurisdiction or control. Missing Monospar Croydon Aircraft. 1059 KXQ UAP 1 0 PARKHILL, Robert Sir Archdale Parkhill . - On the 8th October, the honorable member . for Flinders (Mr. Fairbairn) asked the following question, without notice: - In view of the fact that within 2,000 miles of Darwin there is no Australian civil or military aircraft capable of going out in search of the missing Monospar or any other machines which may be lost, will the Minister for Defence state whether consideration has been given to the suggestion that I made in this House a year ago that the Royal Australian Air Force Flying Boats should be stationed at Darwin for the patrol of the north coast of Australia and for use in an emergencysuch as that which has now presented itself. If no, what steps have been taken by his department? I am now in a position to inform the honorable member that in October last year I advised him of the proposal to station a sea-going power launch at Darwin primarily for the purpose of proceeding to the scene of any enforced descent of a Qantas Empire Airways' plane in t he Timor Sea, between Koepang and Darwin. I stated also that the stationing at Darwin of a Royal Australian Air Force Seaplane (necessarily of long range) would be a further contribution to the safety of airmail operations across the Timor Sea and would be desirable from a defence point of view, but that neither the equipment nor the funds to provide same were then available. The Government patrol boat Larrakia is, as the honorable member is aware, now operating in the Timor Sea. In regard to the question of maintaining Royal Australian Air Force aircraft at Darwin which might be available for searching for missing aircraft in that vicinity, I am now able to advise the honorable member that the provision of a Royal Australian Air Force Squadron at Darwin ranks high in the priority in any future expansion of the Air Force. The priority of the formation of squadrons is at present receiving the consideration of the Defence Committee, and I shall ask it to consider the honorable member's representations in conjunction with the defence aspect. Tick Eradication. 1059 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr Menzies s. - On the 9th October, the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. R. Green) asked whether the question of the validity or otherwise of the New South Wales Stock Diseases (Tick) Act 1901 had been submitted to my department for advice, and I promised to make inquiries. The Stock Diseases (Tick) Act 1901 of the State of New South Wales was repealed by the Stock Diseases Act 1923 of that State. It is not the function of the Attorney-General to advise as to the validity of State acts in reply to questions. The question of the validity of any State act is one which concerns the persons required to comply with that act. It is noted that owners of stock have been advised to refuse to comply with certain requirements under State law. Their non-compliance may result in the question of the validity of the State law being decided by a court.