1940-05-01 15 2 1 REPS 409 0 House of Representatives. 1940-05-01 Mr. Speaker (Bon. G. J. Bell) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers. 409 Questions 409 409 KXB 0 0 WATKINS, David Oliver Mr WATKINS - Has the Minister for Commerce any knowledge of the fact that a wool-broking firm has been refused a licence to operate in Newcastle by the Central Wool Committee notwithstanding that it proposes to expend £60,000 on the erection of a store for the handling of the wool? In view of the fact that Newcastle has already been proclaimed a wool appraisement centre, will he state tie reason for this refusal, and give reconsideration to the matter ? 409 JTY CP 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - The matter referred to by the honorable member is at present receiving the consideration of the Government. As soon as a decision is arrived at the honorable member will be notified. . 409 409 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr HOLT - Can the Minister for Air give any information to the House as to the frequency of the air service between Australia and New Zealand, -the number of flying boats participating, and the sub; sidy payable annually by the Commonwealth ? Further, will he say whether any such subsidy will involve a review of the subsidies now paid to shipping interests in the Pacific? 409 KEM UAP 1 0 FAIRBAIRN, James Mr FAIRBAIRN - There is to be one trip each way each week. The journey from New Zealand to Australia will, in future, be on Mondays, and the return journey to New Zealand on Thursdays, in order to allow as much time as possible at both terminal points for replies to correspondence thereby gaining the maximum value from the service. Two flying boats will be used. I cannot yet state the exact amount of the subsidy- to be paid. by the. Commonwealth, but it iB in the vicinity of £25,000 a. year. I do not know that that subsidy has any relation to the subsidies now paid in respect of shipping in the Pacific. 409 409 K6Q 0 0 CORSER, Bernard Mr BERNARD CORSER - Can the Minister in charge of External Territories say whether an appointment has yet been made qf an Administrator of Papua, to succeed the late Sir Hubert Murray? 409 K4X CP 0 0 NOCK, Horace Mr NOCK - No decision has yet been arrived at as to the appointment of a successor to Sir Hubert Murray. 409 409 KOQ 0 0 MCCALL, William Mr McCALL - Is it true, as reported in a section of the press, that the Government proposes to ration petrol? 409 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - My attention has been drawn to a press report this morn? ing, on this subject. Unfortunately it is true - that many injurious reports are appearing in the press in relation to therationing of petrol. The facts are that the Government called a conference of those directly interested in the supply and use of petrol,, and had the advantage of a prolonged discussion - with them. The matter is now under consideration .by the Government, but no decision has yet been arrived at. Therefore, any press statement on the subject represents a mere speculation on the part of that section of the press as to what may, or may not, be done. It is most unfortunate that the business community should be disturbed, and anxiety created in various quarters, by reports of this kind, which have no foundation other than in the imagination of those who write them. 410 KIX 0 0 HUTCHINSON, William Mr HUTCHINSON - I ask the Prime Minister whether the statements that have appeared in the press, and have also been made over the air, to the effect that petrol imports may have to be rationed by as much as 50 per cant, are accurate? Will the right honorable gentleman also say whether the 60 per cent, mentioned should be regarded as the ultimate or the immediate objective If the ultimate objective, what is the immediate objective .likely to be? 410 N76 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - When I addressed the Petrol Conference last week, I intimated that the ultimate objective was a 50 per cent reduction of petrol consumption in Australia. That immediate objective is now under the consideration of the Government. No announcement has been made in relation to it, nor can any be made at the moment. 410 410 KZX FLP; ALP from 1936 0 0 LAWSON, George Mr GEORGE LAWSON - Tor several years the defence authorities have made available surplus military clothing to the unemployed. Will the Minister for the Army ascertain whether there is at present any surplus military clothing available in Brisbane and, if so, will he have it distributed before the winter? 410 KVN UAP 1 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr STREET - I shall have inquiries made, and let the honorable member know. 410 Dental Treatment: Recruiting from the Militia Forces 410 KK7 0 0 JENNINGS, John Mr JENNINGS - In view of the fact that recruits for the Australian Imperial Force are accepted without a dental standard, and that dental defects have to be remedied during their period of training, and also that it is reported that an examination of the men "of the 16th Brigade has disclosed that an average of five fillings in addition to extractions and other treatment, are needed, will the Minister for the Army make inquiries from dental authorities in Australia with a view to increasing, if necessary, the dental personnel? 410 KVN UAP 1 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr STREET - I am not sure that the figures mentioned by the honorable member are correct, but it is a fact that the dental standard of members of the Australian Imperial Force is not particularly high, necessitating a good deal of dental work in order to make the men dentally fit. The question of increasing the dental staff in order that such matters may be attended to prior to the embarkation of the men, is now under consideration. Already the staff has been considerably increased. I understand- that the Australian Dental Association is to meet this week in Victoria, and that, following the meeting, recommendations will be forwarded to the Government. 410 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr BRENNAN - Has the Minister for the Army received any complaints regarding the -methods adopted to persuade, Or coerce, . trainees under the compulsory provisions of the Defence Act to join the Australian Imperial Force? If so will he say whether he approves of such methods? 410 KVN 0 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr STREET - I am unaware of any coercion being applied to members of the Militia Forces in order to get them to join the Australian Imperial Force. ' I am opposed to coercion of this kind, and if the honorable gentleman can supply me with specific instances of which he has knowledge I shall be glad to make inquiries, and to take steps to ' prevent a repetition of such occurrences. 410 410 KMZ 0 0 MARTENS, George Mr MARTENS - I have received the following telegram from Mr. W. T. Conn, electrical contractor of Townsville: - Understand my tender lowest for reticulation section electrical installation aerodrome Townsville. Understand contract being given to Brisbane contractor who did not tender for this section.' Local contractors would appreciate you investigate. Will the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior have inquiries made in this matter? 411 K4X CP 0 0 NOCK, Horace Mr NOCK - I shall have the complaint inquired into and let the honorable member have a reply. 411 411 JPT 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN - Last session I made representations to the Minister for the Army that a brigade of men be sent to New Guinea for the defence of that territory against the dissemination of Nazi propaganda by persons in the guise of missioners. Will the Minister now consider sending such a brigade to New Guinea under the command of an experienced wartime general? 411 KVN UAP 1 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr STREET - I shall give consideration to the honorable member's suggestion. 411 411 JWT 0 0 FRANCIS, Josiah Mr FRANCIS - Will the Prime Minister inform me whether the Government has given any consideration to the advisability of holding a secret session of both Houses of the Parliament, as has already been done in Great Britain, so that members may be fully informed of developments that are taking place on all fronts and of any possibility of an extension of the present war activities, in view of the present trend of events? 411 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - I shall take the honorable member's suggestion into consideration. 411 411 L08 0 0 ROSEVEAR, John Mr ROSEVEAR - I draw the attention of the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior to an advertisement which appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald last Saturday to the effect that an enemy subject, born in Berlin, Germany, and resident in Australia for one and a half years, intended to apply for naturalization. I should like to know whether in any circumstances, an enemy subject may obtain naturalization at present? 411 K4X CP 0 0 NOCK, Horace Mr NOCK - One qualification for naturalization is that the applicant must have resided in Australia for at least five years. 411 L08 0 0 ROSEVEAR, John Mr ROSEVEAR - Will the honorable gentleman inform me whether it is possible, at present, for an enemy subject, having the requisite residential qualification, to obtain naturalization? 411 K4X 0 0 NOCK, Horace Mr NOCK - An enemy subject of military age would be entirely ineligible. If he were above military age, his application for naturalization may be considered. 411 411 KYH 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE - I ask the Minister for Commerce whether he has any knowledge of a request made to South Australian senators and members of the House of Representatives by a deputation of apple and pear growers in Adelaide during the week-end, with reference to the acquisition scheme and with respect to the damage to the apple and pear crop by a hailstorm and by the extreme heat wave in March? If so, does lie intend to do anything in connexion with it? 411 JTY CP 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - The matter has been brought under my notice. I shall consider it thoroughly and advise the honorable member later if I intend to do anything about it. 411 KZF 0 0 LANE, Albert Mr LANE - Is the Minister for Commerce aware that the Apple and Pear Board -cannot clear Tasmanian fruit from the wharves in Sydney until Friday, and that consequently chaos and confusion has been caused? Will he also bear in mind the report that certain members of the board are selling agents, and endeavour to allow all selling agents licensed by the New South Wales Government to participate in the handling of this fruit in order that it may be cleared more expeditiously? 411 JTY 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - No confusion has been caused on the wharves in Sydney as suggested by the honorable member. The other points which he has raised will be given consideration. 411 KZF 0 0 LANE, Albert Mr Lane - There is chaos on the wharves. 411 JTY 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON - I visited the wharves last Friday and Saturday. 411 KIX 0 0 HUTCHINSON, William Mr HUTCHINSON - Has the Minister for Commerce seen the report in the Melbourne Age of Monday last of st statement said to have been made in Sydney to fruit-growers by the Postmaster-General, who promised that payment for this year's apple and peaT crop would be on a State varietal basis? He was also reported to have said that the Government had paid ls. 4d. a case in advance on millions of cases of apples that did not exist, and that he would see that this money did not become a charge against any pool. Is that report correct? 412 JTY 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE CAMERON -1 have not seen the report referred to by the honorable member, but it is fairly safe to say that ls. 4d. a case has been paid on a great many cases of apples that do not exist. If there is any further information that 3 can supply to assist the honorable member, I shall be pleased to do so. 412 412 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - Will the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs inform me whether the Government has yet considered the Townsend report on the shipbuilding industry, and, if not, when it expects to deal with the subject? I should also like to know when the report may be circulated to honorable members ? 412 KUG UAP 1 0 SPENDER, Percy Mr SPENDER - The Government has not yet completed its consideration of the report. I shall endeavour to have the other information for which the honorable member has asked conveyed to him later. 412 KXB 0 0 WATKINS, David Oliver Mr WATKINS - Will the Prime Minister state whether it is a fact that the main features of the Townsend report on shipbuilding have been reported in the daily press ? If the press was allowed to see the report, what objection is there to printing it and supplying honorable members with copies? 412 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - To the best of my knowledge the press has not seen the report on shipbuilding made by Mr. Townsend for the Cabinet. If the press has seen it, it could have done so only by an abuse of trust on the part of some officer, and I do not believe that happened. 412 412 KZF 0 0 LANE, Albert Mr LANE - In view of statements which have appeared in the press, I ask the Prime Minister whether it is the intention of the Government to put in hand the building of a graving dock large enough to accommodate capital ships ? If bo, will the right honorable gentleman indicate when the work is likely to be commenced ? 412 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - I welcome the opportunity presented by the honorable member's question to say that when decisions are made by the Government on matters of first-class importance* they will be promptly announced by the Government. In the meantime, speculative accounts, such as that to which the honorable member has referred, should be disregarded. 412 412 KXB 0 0 WATKINS, David Oliver Mr WATKINS - Will the Minister for the Army inform me whether the Government has further considered the proposal to establish wet canteens in military camps throughout the Commonwealth ? If so, what decision has been made? 412 KVN UAP 1 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr STREET - The honorable member's question involves a matter of policy and it is not customary to deal with such matters in reply to questions. 412 412 KA9 0 0 JOLLY, William Mr JOLLY - I ask the Minister for Air whether he will have a statement prepared for honorable members showing the subsidies paid in respect of aerial services in Australia, and the conditions that apply thereto? 412 KEM UAP 1 0 FAIRBAIRN, James Mr FAIRBAIRN - I shall be pleased to make such a statement to the House as early as possible. 412 miscellaneous Mr. SPENDER, for the Minister for Trade and Customs, laid on the table reports .and recommendations of the Tariff Board on the following subjects : - Electroliers; gasaliers; chandeliers; pen,dants; brackets. Bugs, n.e.i. and rugging. Spectacle cases of the snap type. Spoons and sticks for ice cream. Ordered to be printed. 412 Questions 412 412 KZX FLP; ALP from 1936 0 0 LAWSON, George Mr GEORGE LAWSON - Will the Minister for the Army inform me whether it is a fact that serious charges were made by an officer of the Defence Department in Brisbane respecting the supply of building materials by contract to the military camp at Redbank? If so, was an inquiry held early this year into the subject? If such an inquiry was held, will the honorable gentleman inform me of the nature of it and of the decisions arising from it? 413 KVN UAP 1 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr STREET - I have not heard of any such inquiry, but I shall make an investigation and, if an inquiry was held, obtain a report of the proceedings. I shall then be able to discuss -the matter with the honorable member. 413 413 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr HOLT - I direct the attention of the Prime Minister to reports which have appeared in the press to the effect that he had an interview on Sunday night with representatives of the coal-mining unions. In view of the undertaking given to the House last week, that action would be taken this week to make coal available for essential services, I ask the Prime Minister to inform us of the result of his discussions with the miners' representatives. I should also like to know the immediate intentions of the Government ? 413 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - It is true that I saw representatives of the combined mining unions, and of the Australasian Council of Trade Unions, in Canberra, on Sunday night and again on Monday morning. I did so at the request of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin), who has been quite active in negotiations in relation to the strike, in an endeavour to dispose of it. I felt that it was proper for me to accede to the request of the Leader of the Opposition to grant the interviews. As a result of the discussions, into the details of which I am not at present at liberty to go, I was informed by the Leader of the Opposition that the representatives of the combined mining unions and of the Australasian Council of Trade Unions proposed to go to Melbourne to see the Chief Judge of the Arbitration Court. It seemed to me, and I think that the House will agree with me, that it was undesirable for the Government to introduce any drastic regulations while the possibility of a prompt settlement of the strike existed, because, after all, the view of the Government has been that this matter should go back to the court, and should cease to be dealt with by direct action. An interview took place yesterday between the representatives of the unions and the Chief Judge of the court, at which, I understand, the Chief Judge indicated that there must be a resumption of work before the court would entertain any application from the unions, but that after work had been resumed, the hearing of an application would be expedited. That having been reported to me- 413 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr Brennan - Has the right honor-r able gentleman been in communication with members of the court? 413 N76 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - No; but I understand from the officers of the court and from what I have been told by the Leader of the Opposition, who has been in communication with the unions' representatives, that that is the position. He will correct me if I am summarizing the position wrongly. Then the representatives of the unions were to return to Sydney in order to confer with the executive of the unions which are on strike. The Leader of the Opposition once more saw me and pointed out that no finality could be properly attached to the attitude of the unions until their representatives had reported to them their discussions with me, and with the Chief Judge. I indicated to him that in order to permit that to be done - because I did not want to prevent any return to work by any unnecessary government action - I should be prepared to defer the passing of the regulations necessary for the opening of the mines until Thursday morning. 413 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr Curtin - The hour was not finalized. 413 N76 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - I made it clear to the honorable member that I was not haggling over an hour, but that the regulations could stand until Thursday morning in order to enable a decision to be taken. I now tell the House that none of the delays which have taken place this week has arisen from any uncertainty in the mind of the Government as to the course it should pursue. It has its regulations ready and its plans prepared. The delays have arisen because I should have regretted, as all honorable members would have regretted it, if any precipitate action, even at this stage, prevented the unions from going hack and placing their case before the court. 414 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr CURTIN . - by leave - I feel that there ought to be, on the part of every section of the Australian community, more particularly on .the part of those holding -responsible offices .and who have had .a very considerable experience with matters which relate to the capacity -of die country to carry on essential .services, a desire to avoid making statements or even putting forward interrogatories which, until final answers can be given to thom, merely prejudice the kind of answers which I am quite sure the people of this Commonwealth would desire to have made to them. I am a little disappointed that a more hopeful result was not obtained although - and I say this with very great deliberation - I still believe that the unions who are concerned with this matter are prepared to go to conference, and, furthermore, that, immediately a conference is arranged, they will make the requisite arrangements for their members to meet in order to enable work to be resumed. "Without asking any questions of the Government I say this to the Parliament and to the country, in the light of .all I have attempted to do and all the information I have gained during the past week, that there is no insurmountable obstacle preventing a resumption of work. I say that the men would be willing to meet those who have the capacity to settle this matter, and I would recommend to them that, once that conference was arranged, there ought to bo a recommendation to the men to resume work. I know that that recommendation would not receive universal support. I recommend to the Government and to all who have influence in this matter that this trouble will be settled by the holding of .a conference. Immediately that conference is arranged-- 414 KZF 0 0 LANE, Albert Mr Lane - A conference on what? 414 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr CURTIN - I merely :say that the men should be able to show that -admitted errors in the award should be wiped out. I thank the Prime Minister for his invariable consideration and courtesy to .me during the past week. I believe that the delay which has marked the carrying into effect of the Government's policy is a delay that has been of service to the Commonwealth. 414 414 JPT 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN - In view of the improved air-mail services -now operating to the Northern Territory, will the Minister for the Interior take steps in order -to ensure that polling in connexion with the next federal general elections will take place in the Northern Territory on the same date as in the southern States? 414 K4X CP 0 0 NOCK, Horace Mr NOCK - The honorable member's suggestion will be considered. 414 414 KK7 0 0 JENNINGS, John Mr JENNINGS - Has the .attention of the Prime Minister been drawn to the suggestion put forward by the Sydney County Council that the Commonwealth Government .should bear the cost of £3,'00O incurred in connexion -with blackouts in Sydney ? If so, what is .the attitude of the Government .towards that suggestion.? 414 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - My attention has been drawn to that suggestion at an interview with me this morning, and my attitude was one of restrained interest. 414 414 L07 0 0 LAZZARINI, Hubert Mr LAZZARINI - Has the Attorney-General -made any progress in the Cabinet with his proposal for the abolition of slum .areas in Sydney? If not, will he persevere with the good work ? 414 DQC UAP 1 0 HUGHES, William Morris Mr HUGHES - I .am afraid that that -question is neither important nor urgent, so far as it is directed to me. There are some .questions that I could address to the honorable gentleman limself that would, I think, embarrass him not a little, but K shall refrain from doing that. 414 414 KLC 0 0 MAHONEY, Gerald Mr MAHONEY - In view of the strong representations made to the Minister for Air concerning financial aid to gliding clubs throughout Australia, will the Minister state whether the Government intends to grant that assistance-? 414 KEM UAP 1 0 FAIRBAIRN, James Mr FAIRBAIRN - Numerous letters have been sent to me by honorable members .supporting a request by the gliding clubs for .financial assistance in the coming financial year. Consideration will be given to the request when the Estimates, of the Civil Aviation Department are being prepared. 415 415 009FQ 0 0 CURTIN, John Mr CURTIN - Referring, to the inquiry I made last week regarding allegations contained! in, a. leaflet which had been circulated and which reflected on officers of the Postal Department, has the Postmaster-General made the inquiries he promised to undertake, and if so, with what result?' 415 KWC CP 0 0 THORBY, Harold Mr THORBY -! have made- certain inquiries, but the information received does not throw very much light on the matter. I am making further inquiries and' shall continue to do so. 415 415 KK7 0 0 JENNINGS, John Mr JENNINGS - Will the Treasurer state whether the Government has in contemplation a proposal for financial assistance to the States in connexion with the scheme for the technical training; of artisans for the purpose of increasing the war effort?' 415 KUG UAP 1 0 SPENDER, Percy Mr SPENDER - At the conference in Hobart recently of the .Australian Educational Council this, matter was discussed, and certain proposals have been submitted to the Government on behalf of the council. The Government indicated that, to the extent it could avail itself, of the technical services of the States for war purposes, it would do so. That policy is, I believe, being carried out. 415 415 JVJ 0 0 MULCAHY, Daniel Mr MULCAHY - In view of the statement by the Prime Minister that many reports appearing in the daily press are not entirely reliable,, can the Attorney-General verify the report published in the Sydney press last week to the effect that lie- had- received' a deputation from the Australian. Workers Union asking him to introduce legislation- to enable the union to refuse nominations for' official positions in connexion with that union? If SO, does, the' Attorney-General intend' to introduce such legislation to meet the wishes-- of the union? 415 DQC UAP 1 0 HUGHES, William Morris Mr HUGHES - It is' a fact that the representatives on the central- council of the Australian Workers Union waited on me and made that- request. I shall shortly- submit it to the Government for consideration, when- the- Government, no doubt, will .take appropriate action. 415 415 L1L 0 0 WILSON, Alexander Mr WILSON - In- view of the new and optimistic interest, that has recentlybeen aroused, among, tobacco-growers- in Australia, based on the hope that the necessity- for conserving, dollar exchange will give an impetus to their industry, can the Minister/ for Commerce furnish any information to guide the growers indeciding whether- to increase their plantings? 415 JTY CP 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr ARCHIE' CAMERON - The matter ha3, I believe been referred to- the Tariff Board quite recently. If the honorable member approached me personally I could supply him with further information. 415 Operations in Scandinavia. 415 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - Will the Minister for External Affairs state whether the Government is in. receipt of authoritative and reliable1 information regarding the conflict in Scandinavia? Is the. report true that the United States of America has better sources of reliable- information on this matter than have the Allies? If so, can the Minister explain the- reason for this situation? Is his department able to convey to the House any information of a more reliable nature than that which we have -been accustomed to read in thepress' from day to day? 415 009MB CP; LCL from 1940; CP from 1943 0 0 MCEWEN, John Mr McEWEN - The Government, through the medium of the Department of External Affairs, is kept apprised from day to day, and, when the occasion arises, as often as several times a day, of the development of military affairs in Scandinavia. The reports. ' that come from the United' States of America concerning military operations in Scandinavia are not to be taken as accurate It is not believed by the Government to be in the interests of the Allied forces to- announce- details of the operations and engagements there, as this could only re-act to the advantage of the enemy, which is constantly seeking to gain information as to the effect of its own operations. 416 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr Beasley - Was it not argued that the failure to obtain information was one of the causes of the defeat of Finland? 416 009MB CP 0 0 MCEWEN, John Mr McEWEN - I do not think so. 416 416 KOQ 0 0 MCCALL, William Mr McCALL - I desire to ask you, Mr. Speaker, under what conditions the censorship operates with respect to Hansard? Is it necessary for the reporting staff to obtain permission from an honorable member before it deletes any of his remarks? 416 10000 0 0 SPEAKER, Mr Mr SPEAKER - There is no censorship of Hansard. An occasion arose last week when the Minister for the Navy directed the attention of the Principal Parliamentary Reporter to some remarks made by certain honorable members, and he was asked by the Minister if the remarks could be deleted. The Principal Parliamentary Reporter informed the Minister for the Navy that that could be done only on. the authority of Mr. Speaker, and with the consent of the honorahle members concerned. The consent of the honorabie members was obtained, and the remarks were deleted. There will be no censorship of Hansard without the authority of the House. 416 416 KZF 0 0 LANE, Albert Mr LANE - Have you, Mr. Speaker, been notified of the formation of a new political party on the Opposition side of this chamber, and, if so, has a leader been appointed? I desire information on the subject so that honorable members on this side of the chamber may know exactly where they stand with respect to the newly-formed party? 416 10000 0 0 SPEAKER, Mr Mr SPEAKER - I have received no information of the nature mentioned. 416 Birth Certificates 416 KRE 0 0 SHEEHAN, Thomas Mr SHEEHAN - Will the Minister for the Army state whether the defence regulations provide that before wives of members of the Australian Imperial Force can obtain separation allowances they have to produce separate birth certificates for each child? If that is so, can the regulations be amended so that the State authorities can issue a single certificate covering all of the members of a soldier's family? 416 KVN UAP 1 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr STREET - That suggestion is already under consideration. 416 miscellaneous Address-in-Reply. Debate resumed from the 23rd April (vide page 406) on motion by Mr. ScHOLFIELD- That the following Address-in-Reply to the Speech of His Excellency the Governor-General be agreed to: - May it please Your Excellency: We, the House of Representatives of the Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia, in Parliament assembled, desire to express our loyalty to our Most Gracious Sovereign, and to thank Your Excellency for the Speech which you have been pleased to address to Parliament. 416 KFE Swan 0 0 GREGORY, Henry Mr GREGORY . - I congratulate the honorable member for Wannon (Mr. Scholfield) and the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) upon the speeches which they delivered in moving and seconding the adoption of the Address-in-Reply to the Governor-General's Speech. I was pleased with the tenor of their remarks, which confirm the opinion which, I believe, is generally held, that we should do all we can to assist in the successful prosecution of the war, and also that we should endeavour to get all political parties to unite in this great effort. During the last few years I have been very disappointed with the policy adopted by this Government and the governments which preceded it, particularly with respect to defence. It would appear that until recently the Defence Department and particularly the Ordnance Department have not done all that was necessary to prepare for our effective defence. I do not blame only this Government or the government which preceded it, because the Lyons-Page Ministry was also responsible for the position in which we now find ourselves. The late Mr. Lyons and some of his colleagues who visited Europe at different times had every opportunity to ascertain the preparations for war which Germany has been making over a period of years. When they returned to Australia they should have had the courage to. take the people into their confidence and tell them of the menace with which we would eventually be confronted. Possibly such a declaration would have resulted in a change of government; but it was the duty of responsible Ministers of that day - some of whom had visited Germany and Russia - to tell us that there was danger ahead and that every effort should be made for the effective defence of Australia. Mr. Berriedale Keith, in a foreword of a book which he has written on international affairs since the signing of the Treaty of Versailles, said that on two occasions Mr. Baldwin admitted that he was fully aware of the danger which confronted Great Britain owing to the degree to which the nation had disarmed, but that he was afraid to tell the people because the Conservative party might lose the next elections. It would appear that a similar policy has been adopted, in Australia, because Ministers have not had the courage to tell the people of the dangers ahead. Universal training should have been introduced years ago, but because such a policy was considered to be unpopular nothing was done. A short time ago I was asked to address a women's conference in Western Australia, and at the conclusion of my speech I informed the gathering that I had learned that their organization had passed a resolution opposing universal training. I was told that it had. I then asked those present whether, in the event of Australia being invaded by a foreign nation, they would like the Australian people to have to submit to the horrors experienced by the Czechs, Poles and the Chinese, or whether they would prefer Australians to fight. Assuming that they would say that we should fight, I said that no more deplorable crime could be committed than to ask untrained men to lake the field against trained soldiers. To do so would be like sending 0 boy who had never used a pair of boxing gloves to fight a trained boxer. 417 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr Brennan - That is a good story for ladies and old men. 417 KFE 0 0 GREGORY, Henry Mr GREGORY - It may interest those who are always disloyal to the Empire. We have heard of the Labour party's defence policy. No matter how the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) tries to disguise the fact in the many statements that he makes, we know, without the aid of the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan), whose speech the other night frankly admitted it, that the policy of the Labour party is definitely opposed, not only to sending troops outside- Australia to assist the Empire in its time of stress, but also to the re-establishment of universal training in this country so that we might have trained soldiers to meet trained soldiers within our shores should occasion ever arise. 417 JXL 0 0 FROST, Charles Mr FROST - What is the honorable gentleman's party's policy? 417 KFE 0 0 GREGORY, Henry Mr GREGORY - Preparation ; every sacrifice necessary to enable us effectively to play our part in this war, and to obliterate the regret that we must feel at the attitude that we have adopted in the past. We are a peaceful nation. None could claim that our preparations were designed as a menace against other countries, but the history of the last few years should force the realization that we must be prepared to defend ourselves if any enemy seeks to conquer us and reduce our people to pagan servitude. In the acquisition of our primary products too much regard was given to the rights, if any, of agents and business people and too little to that of the producers. The producers take all of the risks of production and they should have at least a majority on every board appointed to control and sell the fruits of their labour. The action of the Government in proposing to establish the motor-car industry and to grant a monopoly was the severest test of all to those supporting the Government. Personally, had it persisted in that policy, I should not have given it any further support. I have to congratulate the Government on the great improvement that has taken place during the last six months, both in nol icy and in administration in relation to the war; and I still more heartily congratulate it on the formation of a composite government, which must be of material advantage in the carrying out of its policy. It is to be regretted that we have not a national government comprising members of all parties. I recognize the difficulty of Labour leaders, especially at the present time when communism .seems to have .got control in so many trade amiens.; but when, we note the dreadfully vile conditions that have become the lot of many small nations and recognize the possibility of many " Quislings who would sell this country as that scoundrel Quisling sold Norway, I would urge them to take their courage in both hands and place Australia and the Empire before all other considerations. The Leader of the Opposition admitted .that if England falls, Australia also falls. Let ais examine the facts. Probe into them as we like we should find that with our small population and limited means of defence it would be impossible for us successfully to resist the aggression of any of the major powers but for England's might and navy. Had Germany's antiComintern pact continued there would have' been little doubt of the value and of our need of Empire support. One hears too much of the senseless egotism of those who bawl " Hands off Russia ", and swear by the 'Southern Cross, and too much of similar Communist propaganda. The Government has been too lenient with communism, and I urgeits absolute repression, at least during the waT. There can be no question that many Communists have taken control in a large number of important unions, that the trouble in the coal-mines, in the railways and on the sea front is clearly the criminal work of these people. One has reason to fear that it may penetrate to our munitions factories where opportunities may present themselves for these sneaking renegade traitors .to injure the efforts we are making to preserve the liberties of our people. Drastic action should be taken against any who, taking advantage of 'the liberties which .our -constitution provides, seek to frustrate owe efforts and assist the enemy. We are at war and those who are not with us are -against us. The honorable member for Batman in one -of his characteristic speeches overflowing with animosity against Britain, declared that Britain was fighting .a capitalist war .and then sarcastically quoted Mr. Chamberlain as 'having said that the war was a religious crusade. Probably Mr. 'Chamberlain an one of his very many speeches anay have made such a statement. If he 4id so, was lie without justification? Probably he was 'actuated by the reports from the Vatican of the vile and -cruel 'actions of the Germans in Poland, in addition to that information supplied -in the British Government's White Paper. Had the honorable member for Batman desired to be impartial, he could have made some references to the Vatican -reports of the monstrous atrocities on the people and the churches by the Germans and the Russians throughout Poland. This, for instance - Vatican. Before our eyes passes a vision of mail horror and gloomy despair a multitude of fugitives and "wanderers, adi those who no longer have a country and a home; to us mount the tortured sobs of mothers and wives crying for those dear ones who have fallen in the battle-field. We hear the desolate lament of so many aged and infirm, the cries of the wounded -and the death rattle of the dying who were not all combatants. The .New Year brings us from Warsaw., Cracow, Pomerania, Poznan and Selesia an almost daily tale of destruction, destitution and infamy of all! .kinds which one is loth to credit until established by the unimpeachable testimony of eye witnesses that the horror and inexcusable excesses committed upon a helpless people are not confined to the districts under Russian occupation, heartrending as the news from that quarter has been, even more violent and persistent has been the assault upon elementary justice and decency on thatpart of prostrate Poland which has fallen into Gi.er.man administration. After referring to administrative decrees relating to religious worship, it states - Ml mi is represents a tremendous responsibility and one more grevious -affront -to the moral conscience of .mankind, one .more contemptuous insult to the law of nations one more open thrust at the heart of the father nf -the Christian family. The Apostolic Delegate, Dr. Panico, in Perth recently, said - They must love their church and love their country. Those two loyalties must always go together. As they learnt to give, if necessary, their blood for their faith, so also .must -they be prepared to shed their -blood for their country. Surely these extracts should make our people realize that, unless we become united in our efforts for defence and are prepared to ma;ke the fullest sacrifices to preserve our liberties, we .deserve the fate that has -befallen other countries But, above all, these quotations show that, notwithstanding the animosity of the honorable, member .for Batman to anything British, there was justification for the statement attributed- by the honorable member to Mr. Chamberlain that * the war could- be deemed a. religious crusade. The- honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) referred in his speech to- profiteering. The honorable gentleman mentioned the: Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited, General Motors-Holden's Proprietary Limited', and Australian Consolidated Industries. I ask honorable members opposite: Who have- helped more than they to develop the monopolies? Whenever we have moved to restrict the operations of these monopolies, the Opposition- has been against us. I do not know whether honorable members of the Opposition realize the dreadful influence that big business wields through the press,, and-' even in Parliament and in- every other way, in obtaining concessions that are absolutely unreasonable. The establishment of monopolies, it seems to me, has been the policy of this country for more than twenty years, but at the- end of this war we shall' be compelled to retrace our steps and to engage in freer international trade. The honorable member for Hunter (Mr. James) described the distress in the coal-fields, but what about the distress in other districts for which the coal strike is directly responsible? The coal strike has thrown out of work thousand's of people. In earlier days there was no greater or finer industry than coalmining. We had a magnificent coal export trade, which we lost as the result of the continuous coal strikes. Similarly with- shipping, owing to the continuous strikes and inability to obtain coal, shipping companies were compelled to convert their ships to- oil burners. The unions themselves- are apparently not prepared to undertake any responsibility in this connexion.. They have had many opportunities: in the. past to undertake control of mines, and themselves produce coal from which they allege huge profits are being obtained by the owners.. But they have taken no such- action. So far as this strike, is concerned, it is my view,, and that of all. honorable members on this side of the. House, that the law should be observed. If the law is in. urgent need of amendment, then it is the duty. of this; Parliament to see that, it is amended. I. concede that, when, tha Labour party Was in power under Mr. Scullin^ it. did amend the Arbitration Act in some directions' but it did not attempt to' give the unions the power or right to defy the decisions of the Full Arbitration Court. In the. present dispute the miners are undoubtedly outside the law, and if de,mocracy, and democratic institutions are to- be preserved, it is essential that laws should, be adhered to. If we fail to insist on that, particularly in matters such as this coal dispute, we are then assisting a class of people who are prepared to- take all risks to secure their own. ends. To show that honorable members' on this side, of the House: are not alone in their desire that the. law should be observed I call, attention to some remarks- made by the honorable member for Batman. Speaking on the- 21st September last he. said - That policy, I repeat, envisages' obedience ft> the law, once, the law has been made by Parliament. It holds that the law, having- been made, should be subscribed to and obeyed until changed in accordance with the well-known methods, that are appropriate1 to a democratic institution-, such, as this Parliament. The Labour party, as. and when a. government,, exacts swift obedience to its laws. I suggest that the honorable member's advice should be taken by this Government. While I concur with the action taken by the Prime Minister today in regard, to the coal dispute, even at this, late stage, I urge that he should follow the advice given by the honorable member for Batman and enforce the. observance of the law. We have been careless! in. the past, but in this time of war. Ave must be insistent. During this debate mention has. been made of the official organ of the Miners Federation, the Common Cause.. I go further.. Circulars, which I have, received indicate clearly that the whole industrial agitation in connexion with this strike, is due to- the influence of Communists in their endeavour to injure Australia and the Empire in this time of war.' The Communist party is an. alien party, and. its. object is. to destroy all that we- value-. It seeks to undermine democratic institutions and to demoralize forces that, stand for justice- and reason.. It takes its- orders- from Moscow. There should be no hesitation in dealing with such a menace. Legislation to declare the Communist movement an. illegal organization should be passed at once. We should then know just where honorable members of this House stand in this matter. With regard to general matters of policy, I say it is imperative that the Government should, make an early declaration of its plans with regard to finance, the primary producers, and the Australian economy in general. I do not propose to discuss the fantastic ideas propounded by the honorable member for Corio (Mr. Dedman), who suggested that prosperity could be achieved by the giving of unlimited credit by the Commonwealth Bank. Ample opportunity for such discussion will be available when the Commonwealth Bank Bill is- brought before this House. But I emphasize the vast importance of primary production in Australia's economy. Its great value lies in the export trade for which it is responsible, and without which Australia would be absolutely bankrupt. Without the extensive credits created by those exports, the secondary industries would not be able to obtain the necessary raw materials and other requirements from overseas. Our manufacturers create little or no credit overseas. They are wholly dependent on the export of wool, wheat and other primary products which create sufficient credit .overseas to enable the secondary industries to carry on. Those who regard the primary industries as a huge reservoir of wealth to be drawn upon at will should realize that those industries are drifting into serious financial difficulties, and possibly bankruptcy. Costs of production are increasing, and valuable markets have been Tost owing to the absurd policy of economic nationalism adopted by this country. Prices of primary products have also dropped considerably, and the primary producers are having a very lean time indeed. In Western Australia many thousands of farmers have been forced to relinquish their holdings owing to economic conditions. The Treasurer (Mr. Spender) must realize, not only the vital need of those export credits, but also the need for the immediate elaboration of a definite policy for the war years. It will be difficult indeed for the Government to expect a continuance of the support from country members - not only members of the Country party hut also those representing country constituencies - unless it is prepared to see that the export trade is not carried on at a loss to the producers. The Government has arbitrarily acquired the production of thu farmer and the grazier, and there has been much dissatisfaction in this regard. 1 contend that when boards are created in connexion with matters so vitally affecting primary producers as the compulsory acquisition of their crops, those primary producers should have a majority of the representation on those boards. Admittedly it is necessary to have the services of business men, and for that, reason consideration must be given to their inclusion, but the men who stake their all on the production of their crops should hold a majority on .whatever boards are appointed to deal with the disposal of their products. I believe that the price at which the Australian wool clip was sold to the United Kingdom was a little low. This sale, of course, was rushed, because the Government was anxious to secure credits overseas immediately, and the disposal of our wool established credits in Great Britain amounting to £50,000,000 or £60,000,000. I understand that under the agreement with the United Kingdom prices may be amended, and no doubt the price of wool will be reconsidered. The agreement made for the sale of wool should be placed - before Parliament at once so that we might judge what amendments should be demanded. It has been stated by Ministers that no decision has yet been arrived at. Now with regard to appraisement, and speaking mainly on behalf of Western Australia, although I do know something of conditions existing in the other States, C contend that the primary producers cannot be regarded as incompetent in their judgment of values. I have received thousands of letters in which the writers expressed the belief that they would receive 2d. or 3d. per lb. more for their wool than they had been receiving in previous years, but instead they received 2d. or 3d. per lb. less. Two growers whom I know purchased jointly one flock of sheep. One of them sent his wool to one agent, and the other sent his to another agent. There was a difference of od. per lb. in the appraisement price of the two consignments. I believe that in the early stages of the appraisement, in Western Australia at least, prices were kept down to ensure that the appraisement would come out right at the end. There is, of course, no possibility of amending the price for the wool that has been sold. It has been sent away and cannot be re-appraised. So far as I can judge the board has been most incompetent in its appraisement. I urge, .first, that there should be. a more adequate representation of that industry, and, secondly, that in the event of a dispute in regard to appraisement there would be no difficulty in obtaining an umpire appraisement, thus giving the producer a fair deal. The price of wheat has been low for a long time, and many farmers find themselves now in a difficult position. Therefore, I appeal to the Government to announce immediately that it will make a further advance on wheat, so as to enable farmers to get the new crop sown. Such sales as have already taken place show that the Government would be running little risk in making such an advance, and it is imperative that the farmers should receive this assistance if they are to get the new crop in. Costs of all commodities which the farmer needs are rising steadily, and only the other day an increase of 10s. a ton on the price of superphosphates was authorized. This brings me to the matter of price fixation. With a view to preventing profiteering the Government appointed Professor Copland as Prices Commissioner. I have nothing to say about him personally; he may be very learned, and may know how to write nice little articles about economics, but the job of price-fixing is one that requires the services of at least three men - a couple of accountants, and a business man with sound training. This body should hear evidence in public, and on oath. The other day, a Melbourne building contractor told me that when he complained to his timber merchant regarding flic high price of timber, he was told that the price had been fixed, and that the merchants had to keep to it. The prices of timber and paints had been increased by 25 per cent, and 14 per cent, respectively. The prices of other commodities had also been increased. As things are now, it is only necessary for the sellers of any commodity to put up a case, perhaps to a clerk in Professor Copland's department, and a price increase iB sanctioned. Before the Tariff Board was required to take evidence in public, and on oath, tariff making was one of the greatest ramps in Australia. The same kind of thing can happen in connexion with the fixing of prices. I do not say that it is happening, but it can happen. I want to be satisfied that every time a price increase is sanctioned it is justified. More than anything else, the farmers need to be given some security for the future, and to achieve this it is necessary that they be assured of a reasonable price for their products. In an economic sense, we are dependent entirely upon the wealth created by those producing wool, wheat and other primary products. Under the Constitution, the States enjoy complete control over agriculture, but the time has come when there should be more cooperation between the Commonwealth and the States for the purpose of bringing about a greater measure of stability in the primary industries, particularly the wheat industry. The Commonwealth has advanced large sums of money to the States for the assistance of. primary producers, and this justifies it in expecting the cooperation of the States. I urge immediate action to ensure a scheme of stabilization of the wheat industry so as to give the farmer some real stability and a certainty of at least a payable price. A mistake was made in levying the gold tax on all gold produced, instead of on the profits earned by the companies concerned. Some mining companies working low-grade shows are earning very low profits, others are making no profit at all, while some are even working at a loss. The Bow Bell mine in Western Australia employs a great deal of labour, and £1,000,000 has been expended on the purchase of machinery. It is treating 3-dwt. ore, and is making little if any profit. At Mount Magnet, low-grade ore is being treated at a loss. The tax should be levied on profits, the same as is applied in every other industry and then only when those profits are distributed. I hope that the Treasurer will give effect to this suggestion when framing his. legislation for this session and also pay for gold at its full value. Our greatest task at the present time is to prosecute the war to a successful conclusion. We must remember that we have to contend with an enemy who, for the last five years, has devoted himself entirely to preparation for war. We know how ruthless, relentless and barbarous he can be, how vile his atrocities even, upon non-combatants, how worthless his given word. It behoves us all,, and especially those, who believe in a democratic form of government, to make every effort to assure victory for the Allied Forces. But a lasting peace will never be achieved until the fatal policy of selfcontainment adopted by so many countries has been abandoned. Nations, like men, need a fair share of the earth's natural resources, and it is the better part of wisdom for all concerned to make those resources available to all through the peaceful channels of trade. The nations of the world1 will not fight for the things they need if they can get them peacefully by trade; but if the channels of trade are closed, and men are denied by a policy of isolation, their right to plenty, they will turn to force in a last desperate effort to satisfy their needs. Our immediate, concern, however, is to secure victory, and to this end we must be prepared' to make great sacrifices. For the last 15.0' years- we in Australia have been free to develop our democracy as we saw fit, never fearing that a foreign foe would dare to set foot on our shores. We enjoyed this security because of the protection, afforded, by the British navy,, which, has always been a bulwark against aggression and. a. protection of the peace and. progress of. the nation, giving to. us the priceless heritage of a. free and, I 1101)e. united people. Let us show that we appreciate the value of this protection by giving our full, support to the Empire in this struggle. 422 JXL 0 0 FROST, Charles Mr FROST . Today we- have iip.perm.ost in. our minds the need for- fighting this war to a successful conclusion. I regret to say; that honorable, members, opposite have left no. stone- unturned in their efforts to link honorable members on this side of the House with the Communist party. They have spared no effort to convey the impression that we are disloyal, and that is not in the best interests of the country. If there was ever a time when we should be united in our efforts to achieve a common goal it is. now, when we have need of the services of every man and woman in Australia, and throughout the whole Empire,, to defend our freedom. We have all heard the claims of the Communists in Russia, and the Nazis in Germany, that the people in those countries enjoy freedom, but any one who has visited those countries knows different. Any man who has lived under the governments of those countries: for even a few weeks has felt a great deal safer when he has again placed his feet on British soil. The whole of the press of Australia is making every effort to link up the Labour party with enemy countries. The honorable member for Swan- (Mr. Gregory) and I were members of a delegation which on one occasion visited Great. Britain. At a dinner that was tendered to us we met a number of . the leading pressmen of England. In conversation with ono of them I said, "I notice that you are not- always, linking, up the Labour party of Great Britain with the Communists, Bolshevists, Nazis and Fascists ". He. replied " No, we have no. occasion and do not wish to do so; such action would be against the interests of the Empire ". 422 KFE 0 0 GREGORY, Henry Mr Gregory - They are quite- emphatically of that opinion to.-day.. 422 JXL 0 0 FROST, Charles Mr FROST - The press of Australia, in endeavouring to malign; the Labour party- in this: way, is doing: a great disservice to this? country.. I have- been a. Labour man all my life, and- shall always fight against such tactics: If I believed that the.- Labour party- was allied, with, disloyalty, I should leave it. I believe that that view is held- without exception, by honorable, members who sit, on this side 0£ the- Ho.use.. I. have not heard anydisloyal utterance in- the-- party rooms.. We- may differ from honorable; members: opposite in the methods that we: adopt, but we all have the- one objective and: the onegoal. The Acting- Minister for- Information (Sir Henry Gullett)) said the other day that he- was- glad' that there- was a. split in the ranks of the Labour party. We who sit on this side of the House derived no pleasure from the division which until quite recently existed in the ranks of honorable members opposite. I defy any honorable member opposite to deny that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) has been of great value to the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies), whom he has assisted in every possible way without additional remuneration. The 'Country party openly stated that its price for taking a part in the government of the country was five portfolios, which at £1,000 a year each, represented £5,000 a year; and it was paid that price. A few years ago the Government of. the United Kingdom issued the warning that it was necessary for the whole of the Dominions to become self-supporting. The leading people of Great Britain were fully aware that if ever that country became embroiled in another war it would be kept fully occupied, and would not be .able to give much help to the Dominions. I recall Mr. Anthony Eden saying that the greatest service which the Dominions could render was to become self-supporting. He added, " If a war broke out we should not be able to come to your support in time. It would be a great deal off our minds if we knew that you were able to support yourselves ". We have endeavoured to become self-supporting, but we have made very slow progress \n that direction. We did not commence many of the projects which we could have commenced until the war had actually broken out, when difficulty was experienced in obtaining the necessary machinery and other supplies. During the last war, no carbide was manufactured in Australia, with the result that the price in this country rose to £80 a ton, and' at times supplies were unobtainable. After the termination of the last war, the Government of Tasmania installed a plant for the production of carbide^ and now it is able to supply the whole of. Australia's requirements of that commodity, at a. lower price nhan that at which it can be imported. A good deal of what is produced is shipped to adjacent islands. I believe that Tasmania is the only State in which carbide can. be manufactured economically. Then there is- the newsprint industry. During the last war, because of a shortage of -newsprint, newspapers in Australia were reduced to half their normal size, and their price was raised. Again on this occasion, the leading newspapers of Australia are making a big reduction of size, the price has been raised by id. a copy, and the advertising rates are inclined to rise. There is in Tasmania a forest capable of furnishing the necessary material to meet the whole of Australia's requirements of newsprint. It has been proved beyond doubt that Tasmanian hardwood makes the .best class of paper. The Government did not have sufficient funds available to assist companies which were prepared to begin production; but at the present time there is in course of erection & factory which it is estimated will -begin production at the end of this year and there is also at Burnie a factory which is now producing about 20,000 tons of the finer class of paper, thus benefiting materially the whole of Australia. The factory that is being erected in the Derwent Valley, in my electorate, will, it i3 believed, produce 100,000 tons of newsprint a year. The first unit of it will produce about 40,000 tons. That company experienced difficulty in commencing operations, and, but for the foresight of the late Premier of Tasmania, Mr. A. G. Ogilvie, who guaranteed it power and financial assistance to an amount of £250,000, conditionally upon its expending £1,250,000, it would not have been able to make a start. No encouragement was given to the venture by the Commonwealth Government. Honorable members of this- House who come from' Tasmania had to put up a long fight to obtain a bounty on newsprint. The Government said that newsprint could be imported at a cheaper rate than that at which it could .be- manufactured in Australia, with the result that, in order to meet our; requirements, the haphazard method of getting what we could from other countries was resorted to in peacetime.' We- are now unable- to procure sufficient supplies to meet our requirements with the result that the money that Gould" have been saved' will go out of- this country and we- shall be a!t the beck and call of »ny country that cares to- exploit us.- Had the Government not neglected its opportunities and- wasted so much time in seeking information about fishing conditions in Australian waters, the fisheries industry could have been established by this time. Although there is a greater quantity of edible fish in territorial waters of the Commonwealth than in any other part of the world, tinned fish to the value of hundreds of thousands of pounds is imported annually. Now, as one result of the war, the Government has placed restrictions on imports and we are receiving letters urging us to persuade the Government to ease the restrictions, because tinned fish constitutes a considerable part of the diet of the average Australian working man. One man has told me that he can only obtain one third of his requirements of this commodity. The Commonwealth Government has been too apathetic in it3 attitude towards this industry. It seems to have held the view that, so long as Australia could import fish, no one need bother about developing the country's resources. Now, because we are unable to obtain our requirements, prices have been increased. Australia has had 20 years of peace in which the industries that I have mentioned could have been placed on a sound footing. Mr. Anthony Eden has admitted that the British Government would have been relieved of a great deal of worry about Australia's economic resources if the Commonwealth Government had pursued an energetic policy of industrial development. Although Tasmania has one of the greatest hydro-electric schemes in the southern hemisphere, local manufacturers have not been given a chance to take full advantage of this source of cheap power, because contracts for the manufacture of woollen goods, boots, and other wartime needs have been placed mainly in New South Wales and Victoria. Many valuable factory sites are available in Tasmania, but this Government has never encouraged the establishment of new industries in that State; nor has it given Tasmanian firms a fair chance to compete for munitions contracts. None of the Government's defence works annexes has been set up in Tasmania. The annexes have been established mainly in Victoria and New South Wales, which will secure the greatest benefit from Commonwealth wartime expenditure. In addition to a supply of cheap hydro-electric power, Tasmania possesses good shipping ports and climatic conditions which make the State a perfect location for factories. The Commonwealth Government should have taken greater advantage of these facilities. Last year the Government appointed a board to take control of the apple and pear crop. When that legislation was introduced last session to authorize the establishment of the board, honorable members from Tasmania believed that a poo] was to be formed for all apples and pears produced in the Commonwealth, and that there was to be no discrimination between States. We now learn that, although the quantity of fruit grown in Tasmania far exceeds the total production of all the other States of the Commonwealth, the Government intends to establish a separate pool for each State and for varieties of apples. The Minister stated, when the bill was under discussion, that growers would be paid 2s. a bushel for harvesting their apples and would receive extra payment to cover marketing costs and that, the board would take charge of the shipping problem. Then the whole matter was handed over to the board which has now sold approximately 2,000,000 bushels of apples and pears in Great Britain. The growers, however, have been unable to learn what prices were received by the board, although we have heard rumours from a number of reliable sources. I want to know who made the contracts, and under what conditions they were made. I understand, that some of the fruit was sold in London at prices lower than the growers obtained last year in competition with, growers from other parts of the world.. "Usually, a little more than 4,000,000- bushels of fruit are sent overseas from Australia each year, but I understand this year the quota is to be 2,000,000' bushels. Great Britain is expending- £6,500,000 a day on war services and it. stands to reason that the British public will be prepared to pay higher prices for fruit this year than they did last year.. Yet, as I have said, Australian growers. are receiving lower prices than they obtained last year. Certain varieties of apples were picked early this season but, because shipping space was not available, that part of the crop became a total loss. 1 have been informed by the Tasmanian Department of Agriculture that growers have lost 120,000 bushels of Cox's Orange Pippins. Under ordinary conditions, that variety of apple would be worth from 12s. to £1 a bushel, and this year the price in Great Britain would have exceeded £1 a bushel. The board has also altered the grading of fruits. In past years, growers have been able to ship apples measuring from 2 inches to 2-^ inches; this year the board has decided to export only those measuring from 2-J- inches to 2-J inches. Because of that decision, 120,000 bushels had to be left on the ground. I understand that free-on-board prices for Sturmer apples, with exchange, amounted to approximately 7s. 5d. a case. I have here an account sales for some fruit, of the same variety which I sold last year - A/r. Sales of 100 Coses of Apples ex. b.s. "Sydney Star " Sold on A/o of Port Hoon Fruit-growers, Co-operative Association Ltd. Davey-street, Hobart, Tasmania by J. O. SIMS, LTD., LONDON, ENGLAND biggest producer of apples. I also desire to know the price received for the fruit sold in England and the quantities grown in the several States. The fruit distributors at Orange and elsewhere in New South "Wales wanted to fight the acquisition scheme and said that they would not comply with the regulations because their fruit was of better quality than Tasmanian fruit. Last week I visited the Sydney fruit market and saw there some fruit from, the Orange district. During my lifetime I have seen some poor fruit; but what I then saw was the worst fruit that I have ever seen offered for sale. Some of the pears on one stand were so wilted that they must have lain on the ground for days; their quality was such that no inspector in Tasmania would have dared to pass them for sale. I saw some 2^-in. Jonathan apples of very poor quality riddled by codlin moth. Yet the people who grew that fruit have been loudest in their complaints against the pool. I asked the Minister a question as to the quantities of apples and pears grown in each State, and received the following reply, giving the assessment of apples and pears in each State: - That fruit returned to me at my shed about 8s. 5d. a case; to-day's price for the same variety is 7s. od. a case. The Department of Commerce should look into these matters in order to ensure that the growers are treated fairly. It may be said that 7s. 5d. a case f.o.b. is a good price, particularly as in some seasons the fruit has not realized more than 4s. 6d. a case. In ordinary times, 7s. 5d. a case would be a good price; but it is not a good price under existing conditions, when costs are greater and shipments overseas much smaller than in normal times. I hope that before the Government decides to establish separate pools in the several States it will take into consideration the claims of Tasmania which is the The figures in respect of pears grown in Victoria do not include pears grown in the Goulburn valley, as most of those are used for canning purposes. The figures speak for themselves and show clearly which State carries the burden of the industry. Weather conditions this year in all of the States were most unsettled. There was cold weather at times when warm weather was necessary to produce the best fruit. In the middle of January, and again in February, snow fell in part? of Tasmania, and in March there was a heat wave. Similar unseasonable conditions existed in the other States. To-day the Minister was asked whether it was intended that fruit which would never be marketed would be paid for. This year millions of bushels of apples and pears which were included in the assessment figures will not be harvested because of adverse' climatic conditions. Recently, the Postmaster-General (Mr. Thorby) visited the Orange district in New South Wales, where the producers of fruit have had so much to say, and his visit was reported in the press in the following terms : - The Postmaster-General (Mr. Thorby) has assured complaining fruit-growers that this season's apple and pear crops will be pooled according to variety. Each pool would be financially independent of the others. About 100 growers at Orange complained to the Postmaster-General on Saturday that apples produced in certain areas brought higher prices than some produced elsewhere. Secretary of the Producers' Co-operative Society in Orange (Mr. F. Brand) said last night, that in future any losses suffered by other States would- not have to be made up by New South Wales. T made inquiries as to the quantity of fruit grown in the Orange district and was informed that the assessment was 1.22,000 bushels. Because of adverse climatic conditions, the growers there will be lucky if 'they harvest 60,000 bushels. The .assessment for Tasmania was over '6,000,000 bushels of apples. The growers at Orange claim that their fruit brings from 3s. to 5s. a. case more than the price realized for Tasmanian fruit. That is true in respect of a portion of their crop, but the higher price can be easily .explained. Ill the first place, the producers at Orange have a big market close at hand, whereas Tasmanian fruit has to be shipped overseas in order to reach the Sydney market. Secondly, growers at Orange pick out special grades and market them as such. At the Covent Garden market, in London, selected fruit - peaches, apples, pears, grapes and other fruits - which is displayed in small-boxes, always brings better prices than the average. There is a bigger market for special grades of fruit in England than in Australia and those growers who supply .that market naturally .get 'higher .prices. I commend the growers' at Orange for marketing special .grades of apples for which they receive better prices, but in .doing so, they lower the general grade of the fruit. I have -been informed by reputable agents in New South Wales that some of the poorest fruit offered for sale in the municipal market of Sydney comes from the Orange district. The fruit from that locality which I saw in Sydney last week bears out that statement; it was a disgrace to the growers. Another agent showed me some fruit of which he would not take delivery because of its poor quality. As I have said, the assessment for the Orange district was only 122,000 bushels. In my electorate one orchard produces more than that quantity of apples. The apple. and pear acquisition scheme did not come into operation until the 1st March, and growers at Stanthorpe and other fruit-growing districts of Queensland were thus able to dispose of most of their crop privately. At that time ships were available to take fruit overseas and they obtained good prices for it. [Leave to continue given.] Notwithstanding that Tasmania is the biggest producer of apples, as the figures which I have cited show conclusively, that State did not receive shipping space in proportion to its greater production. Figures supplied by the Minister for Commerce show that the shipping space, made available for fruit from the several States for February -was - It -will be seen that, whereas South Australia was assessed at only '8.50,000 bushels compared with 6,000,000 bushels for Tasmania, the former State was given more 3'hipping space for its fruit. It may be said, in .explanation, that some vessels which .called at Tasmania were not filled,., but the true .explanation is that the growers of apples in that State did -not know whether they were free to ship fruit before their orchards were assessed. They were granted only 10 per cent, of the space -for which they applied ; a .grower who applied for space for 500 bushels was allotted space for about 50 bushels. If the matter had been left to the Tasmanian Government, or the -Shipping Board, things would have been mU right, a:nd. we should have been able to use all of the space allocated to us. In past years we have never allowed boats. to go away with space unused. I trust that there will be only one pool for apples. I disagree with the policy of dealing with varieties. Discrimination in this respect has been most unfair to Tasmania. A good deal has been said at different times about the Sturmer. It is an excellent apple, hut it lias been kept out of competition with the Jonathan and the Delicious. Nevertheless, the Sturmer is one of the best canning apples in the world. Nearly all canneries speak highly of ' it. We have a fruit-juice expert in Tasmania at present, and he has 'told us that the Sturmer is also one of the best apples for juice. Some other varieties are too sweet. The Sturmer is also highly regarded on the London market. Moreover, it is a fine apple for storage purposes. I regret, therefore, that it has been put in a disadvantageous position compared with the Granny. Smith and the Delicious. It has been said that the Government will lose money because of the advance of 2s. a bushel that has been made, on apples, but, in my opinion, the fact that so many apples have been put into cold storage in Tasmania will have the effect of preventing any loss. More than 1,000,000 bushels of Tasmanian apples are in cold store and when these are brought on to the market in the next six months the price realized will undoubtedly help to make good the losses incurred in consequence of the great quantity of fruit that was not harvested in Victoria and in New South Wales, as well as in some parts of -Tasmania, because it was so damaged by the excessive heat or else by unseasonable gale3. However, the Government would be well advised to have only one pool1 for apples, as it intends to have only one pool for pears. I sincerely trust that my representations on this point will be carefully considered. 427 KXB Newcastle 0 0 WATKINS, David Oliver Mr WATKINS .- I. listened with great interest to the Speech delivered at the opening of this session of Parliament by His Excellency the Governor-General. The policy of the Government, as- outlined in that deliver.ance, has evoked some praise but also a grout deal of criticism. I propose to criticize it, but I trust that my observations will be both just and helpful. I do not agree altogether with the view expressed in the Speech concerning the Government's war efforts, and I certainly do not agree with the Government's policy in respect of social services, the living standards of the people, and other kindred subjects. It appears to me that the Government has shown a serious lack of interest in the shipbuilding industry, which should be one of the major enterprises of this country. Numerous reports on shipbuilding have been prepared for successive administrations over a great number of years, and recently this Government had presented to it the Townsend report. I regret that so far honorable members have been denied access to that document. In view of the present overseas position and the fact that, week after week, Great Britain and its Allies are losing ships of one kind and another on the high seas, it seems to me to be little short of criminal negligence that the Government has not done a great deal more than it has done to stimulate activity in the building of sh:ps in Australia. In past years, many .valuable ships have been built here. with credit to all concerned. A number of - these vessels are still plying on our coast. We have facilities for shipbuilding at Cockatoo Dock and, particularly, at Walsh Island, at Newcastle. The equipment at Walsh Island should be utilized to the fullest possible extent. Unfortunately an antiLabour government ceased operations there some years ago. Previously many of our young men had obtained valuable training there in shipbuilding and allied industries. I have not yet learned of any real reason why that plant was rendered idle. Seeing that we have expert craftsmen in Australia and also the requisite technical knowledge and raw material to develop a valuable shipbuilding industry, the Government should . give, immediate attention to the matter. I cannot understand the attitude of the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited in this connexion. It has decided, at the invitation of' the Government, I believe, to establish shipbuilding works at Whyalla, in South Australia. Yet the equipment at Walsh Island is available to it and is adjacent to known steelworks and to ample coal supplies. I urge the Government to re-introduce the Shipbuilding Bounty Bill without delay and to provide for more liberal assistance to this industry than was contemplated in the bill that was before the last Parliament. Every possible encouragement should be given to companies which desire to engage in shipbuilding operation. Shipbuilding should be one of our foremost industries, for it is vital alike to our industrial development and to the welfare of our primary producers. While the Australian Commonwealth Line was in operation years ago it was instrumental in saving our primary producers approximately £18,000,000 per annum in freight charges, mainly by preventing the imposition of increasedfreight rates by private companies. Unfortunately, the Government of the day sold the ships and, more unfortunately still, this Government has not yet been able to collect the money which the purchaser agreed to pay. Australia and the Empire are to-day engaged in a lifeanddeath struggle. It is essential that all our surplus primary produce should be shipped to the British market, but difficulties are being encountered in regard to tonnage. For this reason I contend that the time has gone by for the Government to confine its attention to reports, and the time has come for it to act promptly in establishing the shipbuilding industry on a firm and permanent basis. I wish now to refer to another matter of special interest, to Newcastle. One of the old-established firms of the city, which has been engaged for many years in the hide and skin industry, has been repeatedly refused permission to appraise hides and skins. So far as I can gather, the only justification for this refusal is that the appraisers would have to travel between Newcastle and Sydney, a journey of two and a half hours by train. It is also said that .the, skins were previously sent to Sydney because there were no tanneries in Newcastle. That may be true, but if the Government really believes in the decentralization of industry it should grant this firm a licence. We are told that we must make our best effort iri order to bring the war to a successful conclusion. In my opinion, it is only by utilizing alb of our resources to the fullest degree that we shall succeed, and the Government is not acting wisely in boosting the activities of a .few monopolistic companies in the capital cities to the detriment of smaller, but very important, enterprises in provincial centres. We shall have to break down this sentiment which favours monopoly. According to press reports, the Attorney-General (Mr. Hughes) recently expressed himself as being greatly concerned about the existence of slum areas in our cities. Unless men are given decent standards of living they are not likely to be very enthusiastic in responding to appeals to go to war for the defence of Australia or the Empire. The first duty of the Government it, to promote the welfare of the citizens for whom it is responsible. We should do everything possible to make our people contented with their lot. If the general public were really satisfied with their conditions there would be no difficulty about getting recruits. As it is, I understand that the Government is " scratching " for recruits for the next division of the Australian Imperial Force. 428 KVN 0 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr Street - That is not so; recruiting has scarcely begun. 428 KXB 0 0 WATKINS, David Oliver Mr WATKINS - I believe that if a proper housing scheme were put into operation the outlook of the people would be altered somewhat. I urge the Attorney-General to do his utmost to get the Government to act in this important matter. I wish now to deal for a few moments with the dispute in the coal-mining industry. This, unfortunately, affects not only the men engaged in coal-mining operations but also men engaged in , numerous 'other industries. In the Newcastle district, for example, it has been '^responsible for the displacement 1 from their employment, of between 12,000 and 15,000 men not, directly connected with coal-mining. It is of little, use for the Prime Minister to tell me that the Government is doing its utmost to settle the dispute. I have been present at many conferences in connexion with this dispute, and I am quite satisfied that the Prime Minister is influenced by the views of the mine-owners. He has said that, the miners must return to work and then apply to the Arbitration Court for a variation of their award. As a matter of fact, the miners 'obtained an award from Judge Drake-Brockman with which they were satisfied ; but the mineowners, upon an appeal to the full bench of the Arbitration Court, had the award varied to the detriment of the miners, who, in my opinion, have shown the utmost patience since 1938 in trying to obtain the redress of their grievances. The leaders of the miners' organizations did their best to hold the men in check, but the time came when they could hold them no longer. Any action which holds tip the country's war effort is to be deplored but, at the same time, I protest against any attempt of the Government to browbeat men in any industry merely on the ground that its war effort must be carried on. If the Government wishes to obtain the greatest response from every section of. the community it. must maintain a sense of proportion. I hope that even at this late stage the Prime Minister will take the advice given to him by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) to-day. I can speak from personal experience of the effects of the introduction of free labour in an industry. Such action invariably makes enemies of friends, and practically causes civil war in the districts concerned. I dispute the Prime Minister's statement that he has taken every possible step in order to bring about a settlement of the strike. He could have called the parties together weeks ago. The issues involved in this dispute are not very difficult of solution. To me it appears to be simply a case of the mine-owners sitting pat and saying to the miners, " You must go back to work, and then apply to the Arbitration Court again for a variation of your award ". The owners totally disregard the fact that they themselves refused to abide by the decision given by the single judge. Like the overwhelming ma jority of Australians, I am loyal to this country and I am an ex-digger. I think, however, that the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) will agree that since the outbreak of war much confusion has been caused by bungling in not only his own department but also the Department of Supply and Development. Men who meet with injury while undergoing train ing in camp are obliged to wait for weeks before any compensation in respect of their injuries is made available to them. I cannot understand the reason for such delays. 1 also draw the attention of the Minister for the Army to the fact that no protection is now given to men who enlist for overseas service which would enable their wives, in their absence, to cope with liabilities which have been incurred in respect of the purchase of property, furniture, or other articles on the instalment system. Such protection could be provided by a moratorium. 429 KVN 0 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr Street - A good deal of protection is now provided in that respect by regulation under the National Security Act. 429 KXB 0 0 WATKINS, David Oliver Mr WATKINS - I understand that that is not the case. The Government should legislate in order to enable these men during their period of service to hold intact property or articles which they were purchasing on the instalment plan at the time of their enlistment. If such protection be not given to these men many of them, owing to circumstances over which they have no control, will lose much of such property. So much has been said in commendation of the Government's war effort that I cannot understand why the Government has not gone ahead with the project for producing oil from coal in this country. It must be obvious to every honorable member that any hold-up of our shipping which would interfere with our supplies of oil would very quickly cripple not only our mechanized army but also our transport generally. Our air force would be rendered useless without sufficient supplies of fuel. The statement made by the Prime Minister to-day concerning the rationing of petrol reveals lack of foresight on the part of the Government in dealing with the problem of oil production in this country. I urge the Government to give immediate consideration to this problem, and to go ahead at all costs with any reasonable plan for the production of oil in this country. Considerable hardship is caused to many young men who are apprenticed to different trades when they enter camp for the training period of three months. This break seriously interferes with, their technical studies. I do not dispute the importance of military training for these young men, but it should be possible to enable them to continue their technical studies while they are undergoing military training. This, could be done by sending them to camps which are situated as near as possible to the colleges which they attend. They could then be granted leave at night to attend their classes. I repeat that the present system under which these young men are forced to break off their studies entirely is causing considerable hardship to them. I have repeatedly brought cases of this kind under the notice of the area officer at Newcastle. I hope that the Government will give serious attention to my suggestion. Honorable members opposite have said that the Labour party is under the influence of Communists. The responsibility of ridding this country of Communists attaches to the Government. We are not the Government. However, if the Government were really serious in its efforts to rid the country of Communists it would have taken effective action in this direction long ago, because it possesses the requisite powers to do so. I again charge the Government with criminal negligence in failing to call the parties together in an endeavour to settle the coal strike.. In view of the misery which the strike is causing to thousands of people - and we have also been told that it is holding up the Government's war effort - I can only come to the conclusion that there is much truth in the suggestion that the Government has no desire to settle it, but prefers to see the position aggravated in preparation for an early election. 430 KLM Melbourne 0 0 MALONEY, William Dr MALONEY .- A strike in any industry is infamous, although in his admirable work entitled The History of Strikes for Fifty Years, Frost shows definitely that the majority of strikes have conferred many benefits on the public at large. George Bernard Shaw once declared that strikes, should be prevented. He maintained that industries in which strikes occurred should be socialized. Coal is too valuable a product to be left to the control of hucksters. We know that some mines are more easily worked or richer than others. Shaw suggested that only, the good mines should first be worked,, and that when these were exhausted those less rich could be developed. Coal is an essential' commodity in our daily life. It is almost as indispensable as waterTherefore, its production should be removed from the control of private enterprise in the same way as essential services,, such as our postal services, are removed from private ownership. In this way, strikes could be avoided in the coaL-mining industry. I do not know much about the conduct of the industry, but I do know a good deal of the misery which is caused in the community when the supply of coal is held up. Such interruptions invariably cause unemployment and misery which should not be permitted in any circumstances. J Just as we have a Postmaster-General we should have a Coalmaster-General to supervise the coal industry as a Government department. Much has been said concerning what I maintain would be a pogrom against those who call themselves Communists. Communism is a school of political thought, and it should not be obliterated. Like other political theories and ideas, communism is of varying shades. There is no colour of which there are not varying shades. So it is with communism in the realm of thought. To my mind the ideal of communism is represented in the teaching of Christ and His twelve apostles. On one occasion when Christ and His apostles were obliged to pay a Roman tax, Christ told Peter to go to a lake and catch a fish from which he would extract a gold coin. Peter followed his Master's instructions and secured the coin, with which the tax was paid. It is an interesting fact that the fish- which Peter caught on that occasion was the John Dory. Today, two marks are to be found on the John Dory, and tradition has it that those marks were caused by Peter's fin.gers when he secured his gold coin. Society to-day is composed of a variety of human beings. We have, for instance, the Prussian variety which, unfortunately for humanity, dominates the German people to-day, and has persuaded that great nation to wage the present terrible war. In my opinion there is no more praiseworthy body than the Society of Friends. I hate pogroms. These have been carried out against the unfortunate Jews by Russia, and by Germany in Czechoslovakia and Poland. Perhaps the greatest brain that France has produced was Voltaire, who said to Rousseau - I do not believe in a word that you say, but I will defend with my life, if need be, your right to say it. T.f a pogrom were declared against the Communists, I should be very sympathetic towards them. They are, perhaps, leading the advance guard of political thought at the present time, but even the Labour party has been known to startle the world with its opinions. In l9a6-7, Russia had 124 universities; iu 1927-S the number had increased to 137; and in the following year it was 134. I have been informed that these universities are free. The British Empire can. boast of only one free university, which, I ain glad to say, is to be found in Australia. I am pleased to add that a Labour Premier, Mr. John Scaddan, is deserving of credit for its establishment as a free institution. The late Sir Winthrop Hackett left the sum of about £350,000 to the Government of 'Western Australia for the establishment of that university, and Mr.. Scaddan, who was then Premier of the State, proposed to his colleagues that admission to the university should be free. Some time ago T endeavoured to obtain information in this House as to whether this boon was provided in other countries, apart from Russia. but I could obtain no report as to the existence of free universities in Europe or the United States of America. In Japan, which has 25 universities, the charges are low, being 120 yen per annum, which, calculating the yen at ls. 6d., represents about £8 or £9 a year. Compare that charge with £500, which is the cost of a five years' medical course at the Melbourne or Sydney universities. In Melbourne the dental course costs £550. One of the aims of my life has been to malco education free, even through the universities. Another matter in which I have taken a deep interest, is the care of women and children. Two of the greatest men medical science has produced are Sir Arthur Newsholme, K.C.B., M.D., formerly Principal Medical Officer of the Local Government Board of England and Wales, and John . Adams Kingsbury, LL.D., secretary of the Milbank Memorial Fund, and formerly Commissioner of Public Charities for the City of Nev, York. Any Australian who reads their book, Red Medicine, which deals with socialized health in Soviet Russia, will wish that health measures similar to those in operation in Russia were adopted in this country. I lent this book to one of the greatest medical men in Australia, and. after reading it carefully, he informed me that he earnestly wished that Australia had adopted a similar system to that of Russia. Dr. Suzanne Abramovich one of the most briliant women Australia has produced, is now practising in Sydney. She secured the degree of Bachelor of Arts in Perth, and in Sydney she became Bachelor of Medicine and Master of Surgery, the latter degree involving one of the most difficult examinations that a medical man or woman can be called upon to pass. This lady visited Europe on a holiday, and, being able to speak both Russian and 'German, she decided to visit Russia to see for herself how women and children were treated in that country. She intended to remain there for only a few weeks, but she stayed for months. She became so interested in the work being done there that she applied to the Soviet Government for an appointment and obtained it. Tn Russia there is no such thing as an " illegitimate " child. Al my suggestion the late Mr. Andrew Fisher asked government officials to refrain from using that expression, and at the instance of the late Sir George Knibbs, official approval was given to use the term " ex-nuptial ". During the years that have passed since that time, only one department made the mistake of using the word " illegitimate ". I brought this matter under the notice of the Government, and, as far .as I am aware, the term has not been officially employed since. God never made an illegitimate child, and Russia be it said to the honour of that country, lias abolished the use of the term. Where possible, every working-class mother in Russia bears her child in a hospital. Two months before the birth of the infant, the mother gives up all work, but she is paid full wages, which are continued for two months after the birth. 1 wish that similar provision were made in Australia. Near the large factories are creches for the care of children, and medical supervision is provided. I have been trying for many years to have milk supplied to all children who are unable to obtain it. Dr. Dale, of Melbourne, has pointed out that a large percentage of children, particularly in industrial areas, are undernourished. This infamy should not be permitted to stain the fair escutcheon of this country. When I was on a visit to England, I expressed a desire to see Russia, and the professor whose guest I was in Surrey, referred me to two volumes in his library by Sidney Webb. He added that his wife and daughter had visited Russia, and regarded those two volumes as a reliable guide to conditions obtaining there. The good lady who married Sidney Webb had for some time held the position of secretary to Herbert Spencer, but as Spencer did not approve the marriage, he dispensed with her services as his executrix. I commend the publication which I have cited to honorable members who take an interest in the subject. I believe that I have said sufficient concerning Russia to show the degree to which civilization has developed in that country. A great American educational authority, in criticizing the statement of a Melbourne professor, that the centre of education is drifting towards Russia, said that the statement is entirely wrong as the centre of civilization is actually in Russia and that no other country possesses educational facilities equalling those of Russia. The following paragraph which appeared in the Sydney Daily Telegraph several days ago, may interest some honorable members : - POGROM v. COMMUNISTS. Hit at Jew-Baiters. Official Moscow radio'* attack last night on Jew-baiters is regarded as evidence that the Kremlin is planning to change the Russian attitude to Germany. " Racial intolerance and oppression, that disgraceful offshoot of Western capitalism, is not known in the Soviet." (said the announcer. " We do not tolerate the spirit which oppresses and denies liberty to mcn because they happen to be born Jews. "Nations in which this barbarous spirit is prevalent are sub-human." The broadcast was made ill Russian and in German. Uneasy about Germany's plans in the Baltic, Russia lias taken steps to guard against the possibility that the Germans might seize Swedish or Finnish positions strategically vital to the Soviet, As a number of my friends read my speeches in Ilansard, I wish to place on record the following brief history of the coal strike in New South. Wales: - in September a general coal strike was called by the Combined Mining Unions' Committee, comprising representatives of the following organizations: - Miners Federation ; Amalgamated Engineering Union; Federated Enginedrivers and Firemens Association ; Federated Colliery Mechanics Union; Blacksmiths Society; Electricians Union After six weeks' general strike the New South Wales Government proposed a formula for the settlement of the dispute which provided that "social claims" covering Safety and Health Regulations, Compensation Act Amendments, and claims for pensions for mineworkers at 00 years of age, would be heard by Royal Commission ; and that the economic demands should be referred to arbitration. Other State Premiers agreed to the formula and to give effect to the findings of the various commissions, and the strike was called off. Most of the social claims have been dealt with and the unions are pleased with the progress made. The arbitration case (Judge Drake-Brockman) started on the 3rd November, 1938, and the first hearing lasted without a break till the 20th April, 1939. Voluminous evidence, oral and documentary, was submitted by the unions and the employers, and in a judgment delivered on the 20th June. 1030. His Honour decided that the hours of employment for all workers should be 4.0 per week, to be worked in five days, Monday to Friday, of eight hours. These hours to be inclusive of crib time for underground workers and exclusive of crib time for workers on the surface. The award also provided that the members of the Craft Unions should receive an increase of 20 per cent, on the daily rate to compensate them for loss of earnings occasioned hy the reduction of the number of working days. The Miners Federation was invited to claim the same adjustment of daily rates. Two weeks' annual" leave was also granted. In making his award, Judge Drake-Brockman stated : *' I have given careful thought to the arguments of the unions for the introduction nf a 30-hour week: I have come to the conclusion that this is a matter for the Full Court." This award operated in Wonthaggi as from the commencement of the first pay period in July, and should have operated as from the 16th August in New South Wales, but prior to the latter date the employers filed an application to review the wage rates - which had been correspondingly increased. - and also in regard to the hours of employment, which they con- tended should bc determined by the Full Arbitration Court and not by a single judge. In consequence of these applications, which were discussed in Sydney, on the 8th August, it was decided by the court to postpone the date of operation of the award in New South Wales. The Full Court proceedings commenced in Melbourne on the 21st August, and without hearing any evidence decided, in a majority judgment, delivered on the 4th October, 1939, that the hours . of underground workers and employees engaged on the surface handling coal from the pit top to the wagons should be 40 per week, five days of eight hours, inclusive of crib time, but that the hours of other workers, including engineers and enginedrivers, should be those operating prior to the dispute occurring. (Judge Drake-Brockman dissented from the K nil Court decision.) Having been down coal mines I know the way miners have to work, and although the conditions have improved, I would not allow one of my sons, even if I had twenty, to work in a coal mine. The statement which I have read shows that because the coal-owners possess great wealth, they are able to go from court to court until they get a decision which suits them. There is no record of employers as a body having ever voluntarily increased wages or reduced hours. I now wish to deal briefly with the subject of finance which is claiming the earnest attention of the governments of belligerent nations. It is deplorable to realize that huge sums of money are being raised in order to prosecute this accursed war which is bringing so much misery upon humanity. I suppose money has to be raised for defence purposes if we are to avoid atrocities such as those which have occurred in Poland, China and even in Norway where women and little children have been slain. Does any sane man believe that the national debt of Great Britain which has now reached the colossal figure of £8,000,000,000 or Australia's national debt of £1,'200,000,000 will ever be repaid ? Huge sums of money can be raised for war purposes, but in times of peace governments say that finance is not available to provide work for the unemployed. In view of the financial crisis which is approaching thoughtful men are now advocating that war loans should be free of interest. So they should be. Interest is the curse of humanity, and had I my way money lenders would he licensed and no one would be allowed to lend money at a rate of interest in excess of 5 per cent. Great Britain has not paid the money which it borrowed from the United States of America during the last war. I was surprised to learn from an answer to a question I asked in this Parliament, that the payment of £100 in interest in the United States of America on an Australian loan cost £169 through having to be paid through London. It seems incredible, but it is a fact. I stand with Voltaire on the subject of freedom of speech. To put free labour in the coal-mines would be to commit a pogrom no less criminal than the pogroms of the Czars of ancient Russia. If a pogrom is waged against the Communists I shall try to get justice for them. It is infamy for any Australian to support a pogrom. 433 KYH Boothby 0 0 PRICE, John Mr PRICE .- My contribution to the Address-in-Reply debate will be the shortest speech that 1 have ever made in my political career. I place on record my appreciation of the splendid war work which the Menzies Government has accomplished and which, I believe, will be continued. During the duration of ,the war I want to see as much unanimity as possible between the political parties, and I should like to see a national government formed. All sections will agree that our Empire is up against tremendous odds, but we must win this war or become a second-class nation. It is necessary, therefore, that we should be united in our efforts to prosecute the war to a successful issue. What is wanted is action, not words. I support the adoption of the Address-in-Reply with the fervent hope that tie Allies may bo successful and peace restored to the world. 433 KMZ Herbert 0 0 MARTENS, George Mr MARTENS .-] congratulate the honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Price) on his suggestion for the formation of a national government. On one occasion the honorable gentleman supported an attempt to bring about a national government, but the effort, did not get very far. I am pleased that the Prime Minister, (Mr. Menzies) has given the coal-miners further time in order to allow them to make the fullest investigations before they report to their executive as to the possibilities of ending the coal strike. I know from my experience of the industrial world that no good purpose could be served by trying to browbeat the coal-miners. I appreciate the Prime Minister's action, and I trust that it will have the result that every one desires. There can be only one government, and if the coal-miners are not prepared to obey the law they must accept the penalty, but I hope that, given further time, the men will go back to work in the mines and that the conditions under which they work - they are not what they should be - will be improved. I have a keen appreciation of the shortcomings of the body which deals with industrial matters. The miners were incensed when the Full Court of the Arbitration Court altered the judgment of His Honour Judge Drake-Brockman, who, after having investigated the union's claim for five months, gave his award, to which he adhered on the subsequent appeal to the Full Court. Judge Drake-Brockman heard the evidence, saw the demeanour of the witnesses, learned the facts of the industry from A to Z, and gave his finding. It could not be suggested either here or by any intelligent man outside that Judge Drake-Brockman would be sympathetically inclined to the miners. Before he gave them anything they would have to prove their case to the satisfaction of one who is not in sympathy with the working class. When I came to this Parliament he was a nationalist senator and president of the Employers Federation. With such a background, he would have to be convinced of the justness of the claims of these men and he would determine only on the evidence adduced before him as to whether their claim was justified or not, The Prime Minister cited Common Cause in order to show that some of the conditions granted by the full court were better than those granted by Judge Drake-Brockman. That is a specious argument. I know more than the Prime Minister about these matters. The Prime Minister complained about the filthy language that some of the men at Kurri Kurri had used; some of the language that the Prime Minister used about the miners was not only undeserved, but also very unbecoming a man in his position.- The right honorable gentle- man said in this House that he had generally been successful- when he had appeared before the court on behalf of industrial unions, but very few men in the legal world know much about industrial undertakings. They do not waste their time in court as advocates for the unions because the income would not be high enough for their liking. Judge Drake-Brockman gave the mine- workers an award. The Prime Minister now says that all the men want 40 hours a week inclusive of crib time. At no time in mining history has that existed. Chief Judge Beeby was reported in the press as saying that while this war lasted it would be futile for workers to approach him for an increase of wages or a reduction of hours. A man who makes a statement like that is not an impartial arbitrator for men to appeal to. Judge Piper said that he would not know a coalmine if he fell down one. Those are the men- who deliberated on the facts which had been adduced by Judge Drake-Brockman after five months' careful thought and investigation. Those bushrangers known as the coal-owners are responsible for the state of affairs to-day. They are the unfortunate people whose interests the Prime Minister said that the unions could buy. They are men who will spend from £6,000 to £2-0,000 on a race-horse on which to squander their money, but they cannot afford to pay t:> the miners a living wage. In order ' to further their profit-making the employers do everything possible to minimize the employment of man-power. Such a policy does not assist either at this time or any other time. Great stress is laid on the need during the war for all to make equal sacrifices. It is stupid to talk about equal sacrifices to intelligent men, who know that vested interests never make sacrifices. But if this war were lost what would the vested interests get out of it? When they are asked to invest in a war loan at a low rate of interest they refuse to do so if it is possible for them to get a higher rate elsewhere. I saw in the newspapers that the Sydney Water Board is calling for applications for a £250,000 loan at 4£ per cent. I venture the opinion that that loan will be oversubscribed in ten minutes, because all that the Commonwealth, loan returns is £3 18s p:er cent. I do not object to that. If I were lending money I should probably do the same thing. In the last war what sacrifice was made by the vested interests? None, as compared with the sacrifices that were made by those who did the fighting, and the great mass of the workers. We are told now that at this time the workers should not be asking for better conditions. We are told also that thi1' Government is keeping down the cost of living. I deny that. The price of the majority of the items which figure in the wage-earner's daily diet has risen, in some cases, by more than 100 per cent. Does the Prices Commission think that that is fair or that that helps the people of this country? 435 JLZ 0 0 ANTHONY, Hubert Mr Anthony - Not on goods manufactured in Australia. 435 KMZ 0 0 MARTENS, George Mr MARTENS - It does not matter where the goods are manufactured. This Government says that the cost of living has been reduced; the Commonwealth Statistician says that it has been reduced. That is wrong. I saw in a Sydney newspaper about a fortnight ago a list of prices of staple items of the worker's diet and every item showed a definite increase. The Prices Commissioner agreed to the price of tea being increased by 3d. per lb. in spite of the fact that stocks of tea sufficient to last six months were already in the country. " A further rise of Id. per lb. was sanctioned. Afterwards the price was reduced by Id. per lb., but the price of tea is still 3d. per lb. higher than it was before the Avar. Admittedly, freights are now higher and the cost of insurance has increased, but an extra 3d. per lb. is not warranted. 435 JLZ 0 0 ANTHONY, Hubert Mr Anthony - Tea would bc the only item on the worker's table which has been affected. 435 KMZ 0 0 MARTENS, George Mr MARTENS - That is not so. The price of almost everything that the worker and his family eat and drink, including tea, coffee and cocoa, has increased. Possibly the increases would not affect the tables of honorable members opposite to the same degree. The Government has failed in its expressed intention to keep prices down. At the beginning of the war the 'Chief Judge of the Arbitration Court, Judge Beeby, said that while the war continued, he would not grant Id. increase in the rates of pay, or any shortening of working hours, of the workers of this country. It has been suggested that the Labour party is disloyal^ and that it is mixed up with Communists. As several Ministers know well, my views are by no means favorable to the Communists, but I emphatically object to the Communist party being declared an illegal organization. No government has the right arbitrarily to suppress whole organizations. Such action is as impolitic as forcing strikers to go back to work. If there is a subversive element in the community it becomes infinitely more dangerous when it is driven underground. 435 JLZ 0 0 ANTHONY, Hubert Mr Anthony - What alternative is there? 435 KMZ 0 0 MARTENS, George Mr MARTENS - There are in existence laws which can be enforced to deal with dangerous or treasonable individuals. If these laws are not sufficiently stringent, they, can be strengthened by amending legislation. Many people in this country who to-day are alleged to be Communists are actually nothing of the kind and, in fact, they hardly understand what the word means. But some of them have been made desperate by the starvation conditions which exist in Australia to-day, and by the sufferings which have been caused by neglect on the part of governments - particularly the Governments of the Commonwealth and New South Wales. Coming to this House to-day, I was stopped by a young man who asked me for enough money to buy a feed. That young man is quite as good as those who have been responsible for his degradation, but he is given no opportunity to work. More than 20 per cent, of recruits for military service to-day, are rejected because of physical unfitness resulting from malnutrition. Too many parents do not earn enough to provide nourishing food for their children. I read a statement in the press recently that the Attorney-General (Mr. Hughes) was astonished to know that there were such shocking slums in the City of Sydney, and he asked why action was not taken to alleviate the distress. It is remarkable that a gentleman with his wide experience of industrial conditions did not know of the existence of the slums. Perhaps he had forgotten, because as secretary and later president of the Waterside Workers Federation he must have been aware, that these conditions existed then. I assure him that the slums are even worse now than they were in those days. When the honorable member for Werriwa (Mr. Lazzarini) asked him a question in this connexion, he replied that he could ask that honorable member questions which would embarrass him also. Rotten living and housing conditions are responsible for the poor physical condition of our young men, as disclosed by the examination of recruits. The Labour party is charged with being disloyal because it does not agree with the sending of troops overseas. In that opinion I heartily support my party; 1 am against sending troops overseas, and I think that in the very near future this Government may find that it has gone much farther than some of its supporters thought it should go in this direction. I remember the late honorable member for Wakefield, Mr. Hawker, warning the Government to be very careful, and to consider the position fully before sending troops out of this country. He suggested that the Government should not send even a small number away without first being assured of the future. My own opinion is that, in the present circumstances, we cannot afford to send men away. I do- not think the men are required overseas, and if they are, thi3 Government should tell us something more than is contained in the meagre information which has been given to the Australian public to date. We know nothing except what is told to us in the daily press, which, unfortunately, contradicts itself three times a day. We hear by radio that such and such is occurring, and that the news is given by courtesy of the Australian Associated Press. In effect, the Government allows the Associated Press to tell deliberate lies, because the newspapers contradict themselves day after day. Very little real news is given, and statements are re-hashed over and over again. We are expected to believe that something frightful is happening, and that the Allies are "up against it". Are these things true? Are the people of this country not entitled to know at least as much as is"1 told to the people of Great Britain? Cannot we be trusted to the same degree as the people .of Great Britain can be trusted? Apparently not, because when we seek additional information from the authorities we are told that nothing can 'be added to the statements already made. When we ask questions about what appears in the press, we are told not to believe what we read in the press. 436 K0D 0 0 COLLINS, Thomas Mr Collins - We should be told the exact position. 436 KMZ 0 0 MARTENS, George Mr MARTENS - I agree with the honorable member for Hume. I do not want it thought that I would be prepared to assist any person whose activities are not in the best interests of the British Empire and of Australia. Nothing is farther from my mind. Whether such persons be Communists or any other such dangerous individuals, they should be dealt with. No doubt there are insidious influences at work in this country just as there are in almost every other country. A retired magistrate in New South Wales who returned recently from America said that the Nazi spy system that has been exposed in America is also at work in this country. Whether the Government believes it or not, I am satisfied that there are many people in Australia engaged in espionage for the benefit of the enemy. Men were interned, and the Australian public knew nothing about it until they were released. If sufficient justification existed for the internment of these men in the first pla.ce, they should not have been released. The Government should not be allowed to intern or release people haphazardly. Honorable members will recall that in 1915 the Industrial Workers of the World were considered to be a terrible menace to this country. Some members of that organization were imprisoned on the flimsiest of evidence for having inflammable materials in their pockets. I say without fear of contradiction that that evidence had been diliberately placed in their pockets in order to get them convicted. Bob Besant was sentenced to fifteen years imprisonment on such a charge. I saw him when he was released, and I asked what he had had in his bag. He said that he had nothing more than he had when he was arrested, namely the ordinary rags and material which as an engineer he used for cleaning his hands. Other unfortunate men were given long terms of imprisonment because they were regarded as dangerous individuals. Their organizations were declared illegal, but did that end their activities? The Government knows that it did not. I have no sympathy with Communists or with those who declare themselves to be Communists. Questions have been asked regarding the activities and attitude of the Australian Workers Union. I know that organization well, having been associated with it for a number of years, and I still support it 100 per cent. I do not think that the Australian Workers Union should be compelled by law to endorse for election to official positions on its executive, men who admit that they are Communists. There are some such men in Queensland to-day, and in Western Australia recently a man who admitted that he was a Communist was expelled from his position of secretary by a general meeting of the union. I repeat that the Australian Workers Union should not be compelled to endorse men who might secure control of key positions in order to spread their insidious propaganda with the object of disrupting that organization. It should be allowed to accept only those men who are prepared to advocate Australian working conditions, and to conform to constitutional procedure. I know something of strikes; I recognize that they have won some benefits for the workers, but I am sure that a great deal more has been achieved by conciliation and arbitration. To that I add that had the arbitration courts of the Commonwealth practised more conciliation and less arbitration, it would have been better for the country generally. In my opinion disputes should be and can be settled by round table conferences between employers and employees. Such discussions between men with first-hand knowledge of the industry concerned, can speedily investigate a dispute, and get down to the points at issue. Conferences are much more capable of arriving at decisions than are courts composed of legal men who do not understand industrial conditions. Also, by that method employees are able to secure much more from employers. With all due deference to the arbitration court judges, I say that they know nothing whatever about many of the matters brought before them. That is true of every arbitration court in Australia, although in Queensland the system is better than elsewhere. There the court is composed of two laymen who have a thorough knowledge of the industry concerned, and a presiding judge who merely determines legal questions and arbitrates between the two representatives. Fully 92 per cent. of the awards in that State are by consent. Because of that, there is more industrial peace in Queensland than in any other State. Many agreements are made as the result of round-table conferences without any intervention by the court. I remember that when the late Judge McCawley visited Rockhampton on one occasion a large number of cases had been listed for hearing. It was estimated that the hearing would last eight or ten days, but before the sittings of the court started conferences were held, and agreements were arrived at on so many points, that the hearings lasted for only three or four days. Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 8 p.m. [Quorum formed.] 437 KMZ 0 0 MARTENS, George Mr MARTENS - When I referred in an earlier part of my speech to price increases which had already taken place, the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) interjected that such increases were unimportant. I have here a list of prices compiled by the Housewives Association of New South Wales, showing the increases which have taken place on some standard items in everyday use. They are - Those articles are used every dayon the tables of the workers. Since that list was compiled, there have been some further increases in what the butchers are pleased to call prime cuts of beef. Some time ago I sent a letter to the Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) in connexion with the application of Dr. Rigano for naturalization. Dr. Rigano is an Italian doctor practising in Innisfail, and his application for naturalization has been before the department for some time. When it was refused, I took the matter up with the department, but the only explanation forthcoming was that the application could not be granted. On previous occasions, and in regard to other cases, the excuse given for refusal was that the applicants did not have a sufficient knowledge of the English language. That could not possibly apply in the case of Dr. Rigano. so the department stated baldly that it would not grant naturalization. I know nothing of the political opinions or affiliations of Dr. Rigano, but I know that he is a very likeable man who is highly thought of in the district. My request to see the file dealing with the case has also been refused. I think that the department might very well let me see the file, not that I want to disclose the contents to any one, but simply that I may be able to say that I have seen it, and am satisfied that the department has a legitimate reason for refusing the application. I have been permitted to see the files dealing with other cases, and I cannot see why my request should be refused on this occasion. Another Italian, who has been refused naturalization, is Mario Tardiani. I know nothing about him except that he is a good-living citizen, who recently bought a sugar farm at a place called Pleystowe, near Mackay. As an alien, he cannot obtain a title to the farm, which must, therefore, be held in the name of some one else. In this case, also, I am told that the Defence Department has refused permission to make the file available. I have been given to understand that there are difficulties in the" way of granting naturalization to applicants who are of military age. I can understand that, but that consideration does not apply to the two cases I have cited. Except in respect of men of military age, applicants who are not fit to be naturalized, are not fit to be in Australia at all. I have made that statement in this House before, as well as in the district I represent, in which a great many Italians are resident. Dr. Rigano lias a large practice in Innisfail, and has his own private hospital. He is the trusted associate of other medical men in the town, and is spoken of highly by police and citizens alike. In several instances in which naturalization has been refused, I have learned upon inquiry that the police, in whose district they live, know nothing whatever against them. I do not think that the department is justified in refusing applications for naturalization to men of good character without assigning any reason. This afternoon, I asked a question, without notice, regarding a contract which had recently been let at Townsville, and the Minister (Mr. Nock) representing the Minister for the Interior said that he would look into the matter. Since then, I have received another telegram from a contractor named Connolly, of Townsville, dealing with the same subject. In it he states that he was the lowest tenderer for the job, but that the contract was given to a Brisbane contractor who did not even tender for that particular section of the work. That is a strong statement to make, but Mr. Connolly is a reputable man. I should like to know why, if his tender were the lowest, it was refused, and why the work was given to an outside contractor who had not even put in a tender ? Is the department aware of any reason why the contract should not have been given to him, provided he was capable of doing the work? I have no reason to doubt that he is. I trust that this matter will be investigated with a view to having it remedied if a mistake has been made. It has been alleged by honorable members opposite that members of the Labour party are the associates of Communists. I throw that accusation back in the teeth of those who make it - those who are continually asking questions which suggest that we are allied with the Communist movement. I have no use for the Communist party, and I have had no use, in general, for individuals who are associated with it. Some of them, I know, are reputable men who really believe what they say, but there are others to whom I would not give breathing space in Australia. I maintain, however, that the Government has all the power it needs to deal with Communists, but it ought to deal with them as individuals, and not en masse. There is a section of the Labour party now which calls itself " nonCommunist ", thereby implying, I suppose, that the rest of us are Communists and " Reds ". The leader of this section has written a book,. Why I Fight, and in it he now makes accusations, by implication, as do members of the party who sit opposite. Those who accuse us of being the associates of Communists, and of sympathizing with their doctrines, know very well that the charge is untrue, but they are prepared to make it simply for political purposes. Their attitude is the same as that of the late Sir George Reid, who., when he was in Queensland, talked about defending the sanctity of the marriage tie, saying that the Labour party believed in free love, and was prepared to break up the homes of the people. He knew it was untrue when he said it, but he made the charges, nevertheless, simply in order to achieve his political ends. Those who are. now charging the Labour party with Communist sympathies are ill-advised and do little honour to themselves in their attempt to attach this label to us. by suggestion and innuendo. We are not associated in any way with the Communist party, and the triennial convention of the Labour party has stated our position in relation to it very clearly. When we attempted to prevent members of the Communist party from holding executive positions in the Australian Workers Union, the late Chief Judge of the Arbitration Court, Judge Dethridge, told our union that , unless we allowed the candidature of these persons the union would be deregistered. The secretary of the union, Mr. Grayndler, has been accused of trying to prevent Communists from obtaining membership in the union. That is not true. He sought an amendment of the law which would enable the union to prevent Communists from standing for executive positions. The attitude of the unions is that it is not prepared to pay men £500 or £600 a year to preach doctrines in which its members do not believe. It may be said that it is undemocratic to prevent such person? from going for election, but once candidates have been officially accepted, and their names submitted for election, the tendency is for people to assume that there is no reason why they should not be elected. Communists, as private members of the union, can do little or no barm, but their admission to executive positions is a vastly different matter. We do not believe that Communists should be denied the right to earn a living, but we cannot agree that they have the right to become officials of an important organization, because, in executive positions, they can do a lot of harm. Therefore, I hope that it will be possible to obtain an alteration of the act in order to enable us to prevent Communists from standing for election. I am one of those who believe that the stand taken by the Australian Workers Union in this regard is right. Believing that, I shall not be a party to the endorsement of any person who definitely admits that he is a member of the Communist party, that he accepts instructions from the Comintern, that he is instructed by the executive in Sydney as to what action he shall take, and that he and others are working to a beautifully laid down plan - as was stated in a letter alleged to have been written by Mr. Orr, the general secretary of the Miners Federation, the other day. The police of New South Wales now say that that letter was a forgery; and I have no doubt that it was. That letter had a political motive, and was written for the specific purpose of leading the public to believe that its author wa? Mr. Orr, and that the communication was in accordance with instructions he had received from Russia. It was in accordance with what these persons themselves admit when they go on to jobs and become representatives of an organization, namely, that it is their intention to undermine that body and to bring about such a state of discontent in its ranks that ultimately it will break up. They live on discontent, and have a clearly-laid plan. Any person who desires to know what that plan is can easily satisfy his curiosity. They do not hide it, nor do they whisper what they intend to do; they publish it in their newspapers and in their other literature. They tell the world what they stand for. As one who is opposed to their purposes, I shall not be a party to, any of them becom ing an official of an organization that I hold very dear. I have stated in as plain terms as I can command what I feel to be right. I sincerely trust that sufficient time will be given to the representatives of the coal- miners to satisfy those workers of wha"t is the best course to take. I believe that, in the long run, that would be in the best interests of Australia. 440 L1L Wimmera 0 0 WILSON, Alexander Mr WILSON .- In making my contribution to the Address-in-Reply to the Governor-General's Speech, I do not propose to traverse the ground that has been covered so well by many previous speakers, in connexion with the war. Let it suffice for me to say that we are still engaged in a grevious and tragic struggle which, at the moment, according to the information in our possession, appears to be expanding. Where it will end, we do not know. I shall merely add that, whatever doubts any of us may have had in the early stages of the struggle as to the part that Australia should play, we are gradually coming to the conclusion that we cannot do other than our very utmost. I make this statement after looking at the matter from all angles, because I have come to realize that this is perhaps the final struggle between the democracies of the world - exemplified by Great Britain, the United States of America and France - and the dictatorships of the world - exemplified by Russia, Germany in particular, and possibly other countries which may yet become involved. In a time such as the present, it is necessary that we should all pull together and make a united effort to bring this ghastly struggle to an end. I would not say that, even at this juncture, we should close the door against rapprochement, by means of which peace might be negotiated, because, when all is said and done, if the struggle should continue - as many persons think that it will - for many years, with the loss of millions of lives, nothing will have been resolved; therefore, the sooner the representatives of nations get round a table and negotiate suitable terms of peace, the better it will be for the world. I have said that democracy is fighting to-day for its very existence, and I sincerely believe that to be the case. But if democracy is to survive, and if it is to deliver the goods to the people of those countries which have embraced that form of government and believe in it as we do, then it will have to produce better results in the future than it has produced in the past. I am not casting any aspersions on governments in particular, although I be lieve that responsibility in that direction rests largely with them; but in the final analysis the greatest responsibility for the lack of fuller results rests with the people themselves. I realize that our people have not perhaps been educated to the stage at which they can avail themselves to the full of the privileges which democracy offers. In this respect, governments can be of material assistance; but, as I have already said, the people themselves must become active democrats, and not passive democrats as they are to-day. The initiative has largely passed from the rank and file of the people, to the privileged few. Examples could be cited to show that the main sources of information and of propaganda are largely controlled by big vested interests which, by means of their organs of publicity, are able to mould the minds of the people in the way that they desire, and thus the people are unable to discover who are their real friends in public life, and exactly what they want and whither they are heading. I say to the people of this democracy, that it is up to them to take a more active interest in these matters than they have taken in the past if they wish to obtain the results that should accrue from true democracy. I have studied the accomplishments of dictatorship countries, and have envied them. The spectre of unemployment has been practically abolished in them and primary industry has been stabilized. That is something that we have not yet accomplished. When we have achieved that much under our democratic system, we shall have reached the democratic millennium We have heard a good deal in recent times concerning the activities of Communists. I had intended to make some reference to the industrial trouble with which we are afflicted a.t the present time, but in order that I may not by any remark prejudice in any way the reaching of a settlement which will prove agreeable to all the parties, I propose to pass the subject by. I believe, however, that the bogy of communism has been considerably magnified. As I view it, communism is a political doctrine, and so long as those who expound it, while accepting the privileges and the protection of a democracy such as ours, do not preach revolution and the overthrow of government by force, then we as democrats are bound to permit them to have reasonable rights as citizens of our community. We find persons of this persuasion in many strange places. They are not confined to the rank and file of the workers and those who are in the more humble circumstances, but are to bc found in the ranks of the educated classes, in our universities and other seats of learning. I believe that to he the outcome of the imperfections of our present system. We should set about the task of abolishing those injustices which prevent every member of the community from having an equal opportunity to earn a living and to share in the general bounty which this country is capable of providing. I now pass on to matters which affect those in whom I am more particularly interested. While we are endeavouring to do our utmost, as a part of the British Empire, to bring the war to a successful issue, some sections of our people are prospering as the result of it, and indeed, in some quarters are almost saying. " Long live the . war ; we are doing well out of it". On the other hand, there are sections which are having a desperate struggle to carry on and pay their way. Included in these are primary producers. At the moment I have particularly in mind the wheat-growers of Australia. Their wheat has been commandeered by the Commonwealth Government, for sale to the British Government, and certain advances have been made thereon. Very low, indeed, has the advance been, and quite insufficient to enable these people to meet their commitments for last year, let alone to finance their operations for the coming season and subsequent seasons. The urgent requirement at the moment is a further advance on the wheat pooled. I am receiving daily, numerous communications, by telegram and letter, from wheat-growers not only in my own electorate but also in other electorates and in distant parts of the Commonwealth where wheat is grown. The wheatgrowers arc definitely in difficulties. Their industry has been declining for quite a number of years. I should say that it has been in a difficult position practically since the collapse that occurred in 1931. During the whole of that period there have been only about two years in which wheat was a payable proposition. The organized wheatgrowers have been endeavouring to induce the Commonwealth Government, either alone or in conjunction with the governments of the States, to bring about some effective form of stabilization, so that, after having taken all the hazards of weather and pestilence in producing their crops, the growers might at least be assured of a payable price for their product. I have spoken along these lines over and over again in this House, but although something has been achieved - what is known as a home-consumption price has been obtained by means of the flour tax - a further measure of protection is needed in the direction of stabilization. Following, in order of urgency, a further advance of at least ls. a bushel on the current season's wheat held by the Commonwealth, is a guaranteed minimum price for future production. Only a few minutes ago I received the following telegram from a member of the wheatgrowers' executive in Victoria: - Large percentage of farmers financially unable commence cropping. Imperative substantial second advance No. 2 pool. Needed immediately. That accurately describes the position of thousands of wheat-growers throughout Australia to-day. The Government must face its responsibility to these men, particularly in this time of national stress. Other sections of the community are benefiting as the result of expenditure on war activities, but many primary producers, principally wheatgrowers, are suffering greatly. Wheatgrowers of other countries to-day have access to world markets and are selling their grain at payable prices. I read in yesterday's issue of the Sun NewsPictorial, of Melbourne, a statement to the effect that the Argentine Government had made an offer of 20,000 tons of wheat to Norway, to be paid for at some suitable future date, without interest charge on the debt. I understand that a similar offer was made to Finland. The Commonwealth Government could satisfactorily dispose of a great deal of Australia's surplus wheat in much the same way. I know that there might be some difficulty in making adequate shipping arrangements, but if the offer were made in the right quarters and if credit were extended, I believe satisfactory sales could be effected and the purchasing country could arrange its own transport. I am convinced that, in future, credit will have to be given in order to market Australia's surplus exportable products. The Government must face the position. I sincerely hope that it will lose no time in coming to the aid of the wheat-growers in their present extreme need. A few days ago I asked the Minister for Commerce (Mr. Archie Cameron) a question about the agreement between the Commonwealth and the United Kingdom for the disposal of Australia's wool clip, and in doing so I mentioned that a considerable amount of dissatisfaction existed amongst wool-growers regarding the terms of the agreement and the prices which they were receiving. Actually Australia is being penalized through this agreement. The price received by Australian wool-growers for their clip is as much as 50 per cent, below that paid to wool-growers in other countries for similar types of wool. Certain payments are being kept back and Great Britain, which is handling the Australian clip under this agreement, is receiving benefits in foreign exchange, which is a great advantage, because in some cases the value of the foreign currency is higher than sterling. These transactions are detrimental to Australia's trading relations with other countries. The provision in the agreement that Australia is to receive 50 per cent, of the profits arising from re-sales by Great Britain to other countries is being evaded, because a great deal of the wool that is being exported, or even sold locally in England, is manufactured first into wool tops. Consequently it is sold at enhanced values, but Australia does not participate in the profits from the sale of these semimanufactured goods. The Minister for Commerce told me that some of these matters were being investigated. I hope that this important point will not be overlooked by him. An Australian newspaper stated in connexion with the wool agreement - Now the whole world, England included, is laughing at us. South Africa is selling on the open market and getting prices from 60 to CO per cent, more than England is paying us. New Zealand has been shrewd enough to protect her wool-growing interests. She is selling to England. In the past our wool has always brought about 3d. lb. more than New Zealand wool. At present the difference between the prices is only Jd., which means that New Zealand is getting about 2|d. more than we are for comparable wool. Thus, although Australia's wool is the finest produced in the Empire, it is bringing the poorest return. England cannot be blamed on that particular point. She was out to make a bargain. The fault lie& with our Government, which has neglected to protect our interests. Bradford tops are considered a standard of wool values. Comparison between the last and the present season's rates reveals the rise in value since the war started - Australia is getting a benefit of 28 per cent., Bradford is cleaning up 65 per cent. A clause in the wool contract stipulates that England must pay Australia half the profits from any resale of raw wool. That statement is 'self-explanatory. 442 KIX 0 0 HUTCHINSON, William Mr Hutchinson - What newspaper made that statement? 442 L1L 0 0 WILSON, Alexander Mr WILSON - Smith's Weekly. This wool agreement was not hastily arranged when war broke out. So far as I have been able to ascertain on good authority, which I shall quote for the benefit of honorable members, it was arranged in anticipation of the outbreak of war, and when hostilities actually commenced, only the price had to be fixed. My authority for that statement is the Postmaster-General (Mr. Thorby), who has been a member of several Commonwealth Governments. He said - (Country party Ministers, not having withdrawn from the Government until April, had been able to exert a direct influence on the organization of production on a wartime basis. While it is true that the hulk of acquisition has its imperfections, the fact remains that, with the outbreak of war in September, little remained in the completion of arrangements beyond the fixation of prices. That authoritative statement shows that the system was ready to be put into operation as soon as war broke out. Had I been in the Postmaster-General's place, I should not have boasted about being responsible for the agreement in view of the facts which I have just related to the House. Other important matters are wartime finance and national finance generally. We understand that another loan is to be floated at an early date to finance further Australia's war effort. If the Government of .this country is to continue along the lines that have been followed hitherto, there will be many more loans ; and when this dreadful war is over, the load of national debt will have become a financial pyramid of colossal dimensions. The people of Australia will be bowed down under a terrific burden of interest bills and taxes to service the debt. But the people of the Commonwealth and of other countries are awakening to the necessity for drastic reform regarding national finance, and, as the result, there is in this country an increasing demand that the national credit shall be marshalled and employed to finance, to a great degree, not only this country's participation in the war, but also its post-war rehabilitation projects. To support my contention I take the following from -a report of a lecture on finance delivered by a young man who, by many people in New South Wales, is accepted as an authority on that subject: - The alternatives before Australia were either to continue with a financial policy utterly unsuited to the situation, impose needless sacrifices on the people, lower the standard of living and consequently the strength and morale of the nation, build up the column of interest and taxation, and face financial disaster both during and after the war, or recognize that the nation's credit had to bc mobilized under responsible public control from the outset. For us to refuse to take this essential action while our opponents were doing so and' had for years been doing so along their own lines, was national suicide. We had the only publicly-owned bank, it had proved its tremendous value and importance during the Great War and during the depression, and we must use it now and not wait till we were forced to resort to unorthodox measures under pressure, when we would be far more likely to make mistakes. He pointed out that taxation per head iu Australia in 1914 was £3 15s., to-day it was nearly £18 per head, and totalled 10s. Gd. in the £1 of the national income. It had doubled during the Great War, but certainly could not double again. To try and finance war or any other great national effort from debt and taxation alone was not only unsound but impossible to-day. If Australia were a poor country the use of man -power and materials for war might necessitate a lowering of the standard of living, but she was not poor and for ten years we had been trying to deal with' a problem of too much labour and material. During the Great War, with far less mechanical equipment, wealth and knowledge, England had kept all its vital industries and social services going, maintained the standard of living of both civil and military populations and supplied war material as well, although most of her able-bodied man-power was at" the front. That question is coming to the front to-day in Australia and other countries. I trust that the Government will face the situation courageously," that it will desist from imposing on the people unnecessary load's of debt and taxation, that it will deal equitably with our primary producers, and courageously tackle the problem of unemployment, which is still of major importance. Despite the large numbers of young men who have enlisted in the different arms of our fighting forces, not a day passes without bringing to me from persons residing in my electorate applications for employment of some sort. Although I do my best for them, it is seldom that I can place them in jobs. That, probably, is the experience of other honorable members also. Such a state of affairs cannot bc tolerated much longer. The men who offer themselves as a supreme sacrifice for their country will not tolerate it when they return; and if that should be their attitude, the people of Australia will back them to the limit. Public opinion has to be regimented before we can accomplish these things, but I believe that the tide of public opinion is rising and will not be stopped ; the people will not much longer tolerate starvation in the midst of abundance. The existing system which permits such anomalies will not be allowed to continue among free peoples. I regard the decision of the Government to abandon the subsidy on fertilisers as a retrograde step. The granting of that subsidy was one of the wisest acts of any Australian government, for it has been of the greatest possible assistance to the primary industries of Australia, especially grazing and dairying. Any departure from the policy which has been followed for some years, especially now that Country party members arc in the Government, will take a great deal of explaining. I hope soon to hear an an?nouncement of a reversal of policy in thi3 connexion. I shall conclude by emphasizing again the urgent need of the wheat-growers of this country and by asking the Government to take the earliest possible steps to make a further payment to them on the current season's wheat. s 444 JPT Northern Territory 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN . - It remains for me, the only true " clean skin " in this House, to note the reaction of members generally to the Governor-General's Speech. Unlike other honorable members, I arn not tied to any political party, but represent independent thought in this House. Honorable members on the Government side have done the right thing in advocating strong measures for the defence of this country. Their words can be interpreted to mean only that they are "all in" on the side of Great Britain and the rest of the Empire. In that connexion I give to them my fullest support, although I do not agree with their policy in relation to all other matters. The reaction of honorable members on the Opposition side of the House to the Governor-General's Speech has been- different. They have delved into philosophy, and one of them, the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan), into religion. My honoured friend, the honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney) has also quoted from the philosophers. I point out that only failures philosophize; the philosophers of the world have been failures. In all ages successful people are too busy to philosophize; they are fully occupied with trying to fit facts into the scheme of things. That is what we are doing with our defence system. I shall mention some philosophers who have proved to be failures. There were Demosthenes and Aristotle and Bacon. The last mentioned might have been a scoundrel, but he set out to establish a philosophy whereby he could gain control for himself. Failing to get a political appointment as a philosopher, he attempted to become a super-scientist ; but he failed miserably. We cannot accept the admonition to ignore Voltaire, because to ignore him is to ignore history. Yet Voltaire also was a failure. He started by disbelieving everything and saying that he could prove a case against either side with equal facility, and he ended a3 a sceptic. Let us, however, get away from philosophizing and face the facts of to-day. They are real. At a time like this it is of no use for us to lose ourselves in the stratosphere. But before I leave the stratosphere for lower altitudes, I wish to compliment the honorable member for Corio (Mr. Dedman) on his maiden speech. I did not agree with all that he said, but I compliment him on the quality of his address, and express my pleasure at hearing the burr-r in his voice; the sound took me back to my native hills. The honorable member had much to say on the subject of finance - a realm in which I do not feel competent to cross swords with him, but in some other spheres I am, I think, able to make some provocative statements. Last year, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) joined issue with the then Treasurer (Mr. Casey) as to whether gold is money or something that represents money. Their observations were published in the Sydney Morning Herald, but, so far as I am aware, neither side presented a very convincing case. The present Treasurer (Mr. Spender), with great self-assurance expanded his theory of finance during the previous session of this Parliament, but he was immediately put in his place by the right honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin). If the honorable member for Corio wishes to see in operation a system of finance that will bring this country out of its troubles- 444 KCF 0 0 DEDMAN, John Mr Dedman - My . predecessor said that the sky was the limit. 444 JPT 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN - According to the right honorable member for Yarra, neither of the two contending parties was correct because, in his opinion, gold is not money, and does not represent money ; it is merely something by means of which confidence is given. If I were to accept the theories of the honorable member for Corio, I should expect, on my next trip to the Northern Territory, to pluck pound notes off every coolibah tree en route. 445 KCF 0 0 DEDMAN, John Mr Dedman - Bunkum! I did not say that. 445 JPT 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN - I do not say that there is not something in the contention of the honorable member for Corio. I suggest to the honorable member that he ask the Treasurer whether it is a fact that, before the last depression, the Commonwealth Bank took up his own treasury-bills and paid itself 6 per cent, or 7 per cent, interest. I have heard that that was done. If so, it is the nearest approach to the A plus B theorem that I have come across. If the question which I have suggested be answered in the affirmative, the honorable member may be able to get Australia out of its financial morass. I desire to know whether the Government intends to pay our overseas debt out of revenue. If the answer is in the affirmative, I should say that our finances are in safe hands, and may well be left to such financial wizards. Before dealing with matters affecting the northern areas, in which 1 am keenly interested, I wish to refer to the lack of unity in the Labour party. Seeing that the sword is on the grindstone, as was evident from the speech of the honorable member for Herbert (Mr. Martens), it is a pity that we have before us evidence that there are in Australia a number of " Pinks ", who are even worse than the " Beds ". The " Beds " are not a menace, because we know them; and I hope that they will continue to live in such a way that we shall not fail to recognize them. But the " Pinks " may at any time sneak upon us in the dark and stab us in the back. A section of the Labour party, influenced by its greatest bluffer, Mr. Lang, has disrupted the party. Those who are standing against communism under the Leader of the Opposition arc the cleanest fighters, and have the cleanest political record of any section of the Labour party that I know. I am sorry to think that the political party, just because it was unwilling to judge until it knew all the facts, should have got into such a state. I presume that the Leader of the Opposition did not, desire to be intolerant, but wished rather to reserve judgment until he knew the facts. That tolerance has been misconstrued to mean a laziness or unwillingness to take a sufficient interest in affairs, and therefore an unwillingness to protest against the pink or red element. 445 KRH 0 0 MCHUGH, Sydney Mr McHugh - Tell us something about the great cattle combine. 445 JPT 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN - When I think of the Tower of Babel, with its confusion of tongues, I think also of its architectural prototype, the Labour party. This nation of 7,000,000 people, which has done a good job with this country, has no rightto allow the dissemination of the wretched stuff that is being sent to Moscow from secret stations, letting our enemies know that we are divided. We should take steps to see that this nation speaks with one voice. 445 KCF 0 0 DEDMAN, John Mr Dedman - The honorable member should speak for himself. 445 JPT 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN - I am an independent member, and am neither handcuffed nor hobbled. 445 KF9 0 0 GREEN, Albert Mr GREEN - The honorable member is the greatest tory in this House. 445 JPT 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN - The honorable member for Kalgoorlie should be the last to interject, for he will admit that the -miners at Kalgoorlie have recently shown themselves to be good Australians. The debate on the Address-in-Reply has reached the stage when it is like a chewed piece of string; the various political parties have been wrangling amongst themselves, rather than expressing a true Australian sentiment and letting the world know that this is a Parliament of sane Australians. Some time ago I urged that a brigade of men be sent to New Guinea to assist the thin line of diggers there. We cannot any longer afford to be neglectful of this territory. The men there have asked for reinforcements in order to enable them to meet the penetration of nazi-ism, as the result of the activities of men in the guise of German missionaries. Not without good reasons have they asked me to make representations on their behalf, and I hope that the Minister will heed the question I asked again to-day and send a brigade there without delay. I point out that we have made rather an issue of the position in the Netherlands East Indies. Thu Leader of the Opposition, in fact, rather unnecessarily drew Japan into his com ments. There is a marked tendency among a certain section of people to suggest that the danger to the Netherlands East Indies is from our good customer and neighbour, Japan. In my opinion, the danger is from the Communists and their "pink" friends in the Netherlands East Indies, who are themselves eager for war. This danger has existed since 1926, when certain " pinks " in the Netherlands East Indies, who were in communication with the Communist element in Australia, set out to destroy our "White Australia policy. I believe a representative of the " Red " Labour party of Australia attended the Vladivostock conference in 1929. His name, I think, was Walsh, though I am not quite sure on that point. 446 KCM 0 0 DRAKEFORD, Arthur Mr Drakeford - Tom Walsh is now a member of the United Australia party. 446 JPT 0 0 BLAIN, Adair Mr BLAIN - At any rate, certain unscrupulous persons would like to attack Batavia, in the same way as Copenhagen and Oslo were attacked, and afterwards, no doubt, they would endeavour to pay attention to some of our Australian towns. These are the people we have to fear; not the Japanese who, if treated in the proper manner, will become our customers even to a further degree than at present and who have a national antipathy to Germany and Russia from Vladivostock. We already have plenty of Germans to fight. If Communist sections in Labour organizations and " pink " sections of the press desire' to quarrel with Japan they should make it a private quarrel and not a national one. I congratulate the Government upon having taken heed of the requests that I have made during the last three years for the establishment of a defence base at Darwin. I was very disappointed that active steps were not taken to that end immediately after the Munich conference. We were really given nine months' notice of what was to happen, and we should have worked swiftly. However, I am glad that the Government is now taking steps to protect our northern waters, and to see that the Timor and Arafura seas, which wash our northern coasts, are to be regarded as vital spots in our defence measures. 446 K0D Hume 0 0 COLLINS, Thomas Mr COLLINS .- In addressing myself to the motion moved by the honorable member for Wannon (Mr. Scholfield) and so capably seconded by the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony), I direct attention to the following observations in the Speech delivered by His Excellency the Governor-General on the occasion of the opening of this session of the Parliament: - You have been called together to deliberate upon matters of importance to the well-being of the Commonwealth. The war forced upon the British and French peoples by flagrant international lawbreaking on the part of Germany shows no sign of a speedy ending. While we are all confident of ultimate success, there can be no doubt that the situation is a grave one. In the light of those remarks, I address myself to the vital subject of the defence of this country, which has been a matter of serious concern to me over a long period of years. The criticisms that I have levelled against the defence administration from time to time have, I believe, always been of a constructive nature, for I have watched with interest all that has been done in this direction. I regretted very deeply the abandonment, by a previous government, of the system of compulsory training that had been in force in this country for some years. When I first entered this Parliament I commented upon the necessity for compulsory training, not for the purpose of agression, but in order to develop the physical and mental capacity of the sons of Australia. I asserted, at that time, that it was necessary to commence this training during school days when the objective should be, principally, physical culture. I believed that the more serious military training should be proceeded with as the boys became older so that, if the time unhappily came when this country was attacked, our men would be trained and ready to defend it. Even within the last few years I have written to the Ministers for Defence for the time being pointing out the obvious necessity for defence preparation and training. I have also directed attention to the fact that the men who were sent into camp for training two years ago were very badly equipped. Some of them had only half a uniform. Others wore blazers. Some had military trousers and some wore their ordinary clothing. Some had black hats and some black caps. Others had proper military tunics and others, again, wore ordinary coats. Some went into camp wearing " strides ", and others a motley of garments. The men had no greatcoats, or blankets, or proper military boots. Their whole appearance as they wentinto camp reflected anything but credit upon the honorable gentlemen who had been holding the portfolio of defence. I do not absolve either Sir George Pearce or Sir Archdale Parkhill from blame in this respect. We all know that in the years following the termination of the last war a great quantity of surplus military uniforms, blankets, and greatcoats was given away to unemployed through various welfare organizations. 447 KCF 0 0 DEDMAN, John Mr Dedman - And a good thing too! 447 K0D 0 0 COLLINS, Thomas Mr COLLINS - I have no doubt that it was generally thought at that time that there would never again be any necessity to provide large stocks of such goods. Yet had the authorities been even reasonably long-sighted they must have realized that the need would again arise for such equipment. I complained about the failure to make provision of this kind, and said that it was entirely wrong to allow our stocks to become exhausted; but my complaints fell upon deaf ears. Unhappily, ominous war clouds began to gather again on the horizon. Certainly, nt that time, men of ordinary business capacity and acumen should have realized the need to provide reserve stocks of military clothing and equipment. Yet in the period when Australian wool was available at the lowest price in history no steps were taken to use it for the manufacture of reserve stocks of greatcoats, uniforms, and blankets. Men of vision would undoubtedly have taken advantage of those conditions to provide against an emergency. Seeing that farmers who suffer from, droughts subsequently take steps to conserve fodder and water in order to meet any reasonable requirements in subsequent drought periods, it surely was not too much to expect that honorable gentlemen who held important portfolios in the Cabinet would take steps to see that reasonable provision was made to provide equipment' and comforts for men who might, in the course of the years, be called upon once again to fight for their country. Unfortunately that has not been done. We were told that the cost would be too great. If I had had my way I should have gathered together a pile of blankets, greatcoats and other military clothing twice the size of these houses of parliament, so that when the need arose for men to go into camp they would have been provided with proper equipment. Lately we have had in office men of business capacity and training, and we find that a better state of affairs now prevails. With me, it is not a case of being wise after the event, as those honorable members who have heard or read my speeches of the last few years will readily admit. I have advocated for a number of years that there should be associated with our defence authorities trained business men with administrative experience. Such could easily have been co-opted, I know that many men who have worked their way from the lowest to the highest rung of the commercial ladder would have been glad to give their services gratis to this country to assist our defence administrators and to see that extravagance was avoided and the utmost economy was observed in obtaining the equipment that was required. The defence of Australia is most important. Two years ago, through the courtesy of the Minister for External Affairs (Mr. McEwen) who was then Minister for the Interior, I had an opportunity to tour the Northern Territory and the north-western portion of the Commonwealth. I visited such places as Wyndham and Broome which are far flung outposts of this continent. At Broome Australian pearlers waited on the Minister and asked for assistance for their industry. I found Broome to be a picturesque little place vastly different from the desolation which I had expected to find there. It is populated by a small number of white people who are surrounded by coloured peoples each seeking the spoil from the ocean depths. I was very much impressed by that contrast. I realized then how essential it was to subsidize this industry in order that the Australians engaged in it might be kept there as protectors of that outpost of our great white Australia. These people are doing a wonderful service to this country. I came to the conclusion that, unless they are subsidized and thus enabled to hold that fort for us against the coloured nations of the East, then the latter will be at liberty to poach along our shores. Unless we strengthen such outposts as Broome and Wyndham we cannot effectively protect that portion of this continent. At the same time, however, we must remember that, while we are at war as part and parcel of the British Empire and must fight to the bitter end, our front line to-day is not our three-mile limit but the frozen hills of Norway. That is where the real fight is being waged in order to protect this country against the ravages to which it will undoubtedly be subjected if any nation invades Australia. We have our Australian Imperial Force. I witnessed the two great marches of these young Australian soldiers through the streets of Sydney, and I was proud to note their manly bearing. It has been said that they do not measure up to the standards of the 1st Australian Imperial Force. With that view I do not agree. I was proud to know that Australia could produce such men. At the same time I was distressed by the thought that once again the flower of our manhood is being called upon to go on active service overseas. As they marched along with a jaunty swing my heart went out to the mothers who gave those men to the nation. I realized that possibly 80 per cent, of them had nothing more in life than the right to live. Nevertheless, they were comrades, all of them being imbued with the traditions of their forefathers and prepared to die for the cause of Australia and of the Empire to which we belong. They were the Australian Imperial Force. Many of them were sons of original Anzacs. I now propose to deal with the disposal of our primary products. Apparently the arrangement made with Great Britain has proved perfectly satisfactory. The prices agreed upon have been reasonable. The producers of none of the commodities affected could reasonably take exception to what has been done. 448 L1L 0 0 WILSON, Alexander Mr Wilson - But we do. 448 K0D 0 0 COLLINS, Thomas Mr COLLINS - All that I can say is that the honorable member should not object to anything which has been done under this arrangement. In view of seasonal conditions during last year Ave are receiving satisfactory prices for our wool, wheat and other commodities under present conditions. Last season we had a record wool clip. 448 L08 0 0 ROSEVEAR, John Mr Rosevear - What is the record selling price of wool? 448 K0D 0 0 COLLINS, Thomas Mr COLLINS - I am not concerned with that point; I am wondering what we should have done with our wool had Great Britain said to us, " We do not want your wool. If you are not prepared to accept what we are offering to you, you can please yourselves what you do with your wool ". From February to December last, we enjoyed one of the greatest seasons for wool on record. If the arrangement entered into with Great Britain had been made in respect of the previous season's clip it would not have been so satisfactory because the yield for each sheep in that year was only half of what it was last year. This year we are blessed with another very favorable season, and I .am hoping that the present excellent conditions will continue and give to us another record clip. I hope that Great Britain will be able to clear all of the commodities it has purchased from us. I am not altogether satisfied with the wool appraisement scheme now in operation because the best brains among our wool-growers have not been utilized for the purpose of seeing that justice is done to the growers. Some of the men who are supervising the scheme have great wool-growing interests. The chief of the Central Wool Committee is reputed to hold thousands of bales of wool procured from what is termed in the market as split lots. Consequently, he is capable of commanding the market. He is a man of great wealth and can force smaller buyers to pay his price or go empty-handed. Yet this man is at the head of the Central Wool Committee. I should like to know if the great quantity of wool which he holds has not been acquired from split lots. I also wish to know if it is true that he holds a large interest in carbonizing and scouring works in South Australia, and, if so, will large quantities of the wool appraised be sent to those works for treatment? Did this man in his official capacity raise the price of carbonizing wool? These are questions which the Government must answer. Is it a fact that sons of the controlling appraisers have been appointed as appraisers, although they have not had experience in this work, and have simply been furnished with the sacred table of limits? These are important questions which arise in connexion with the wool appraisement scheme. I feel that owing to the appointment of incompetent appraisers justice is not being done to the growers. As is the case with stock, much of the knowledge possessed by wool experts cannot be acquired in the ordinary way. The expert is really born to the business. As one who is a producer of stock you, Mr. Speaker, will agree with me on that point. You know that the real expert can by his special knowledge say whether a yearling bull or a yearling colt is worth keeping as a sire. Those are phases of judgment which cannot be acquired in the ordinary way. Such ability cannot be imparted to others, or acquired by others merely through study. When such experts die their knowledge goes with them to the grave. They possess special gifts. In the wool industry I can employ a certified classer who is capable of classing my wool at a high level. However, at the sales, other young men are able to select certain portions of my wool, and after re-classifying it in their own stores, they can re-sell it at a profit. The point I make is that such experts are available for appointment as appraisers under the present scheme, but no attempt is made to utilize their services. In many instances foreigners have received these appointments. I do not question the integrity of those men who make the best purchases according to the quality of wool required in the mills on whose behalf they are operating. However, I take exception to the fact that men who could ensure that the growers of this country are being fairly treated have not been appointed as appraisers under the present scheme. 449 L1L 0 0 WILSON, Alexander Mr Wilson - Why not place a few genuine representatives of the growers on the board? 449 K0D 0 0 COLLINS, Thomas Mr COLLINS - I have no power to dp that, but the honorable member could help me in that direction. Under the old auction system, we could go into the markets on the day of the sales, or even a day before them, and see buyers from the various purchasing nations examining the wool. From the prices offered, we could detect exactly what were the defects in our own clip, and why a neighbour, who brought in the same class of wool as ourselves, was possibly beating us in regard to prices. The growers are to-day denied that right. Men who are students of the wool industry, many of them holding certificates, are better judges of wool by far than those who are now appraising it. The qualifications of all of the men who are now offering their services as appraisers should be tested by the wool authorities. Many Australian wool-buyers have not received appointment as appraisers, and many returned soldiers who are competent appraisers have not been given any consideration. How many appraisers have been taken from retirement and appointed to this work? These are matters to which the Government should give most serious attention, in order to see that justice is done in the disposal of our wool. Much has been said in this chamber on the all-important subject of communism. I referred to it in this House in 1932, but very little consideration was then given to anything said in that regard. I addressed questions about communism to the then Attorney-General, Sir John Latham, who is now Chief Justice of the High Court, and he assured me that it was not a matter for concern in this country. He told me in a most polite and gentlemanly manner to mind my own business, as this was a matter for the State authorities. 449 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr BRENNAN - That was true leadership. 449 K0D 0 0 COLLINS, Thomas Mr COLLINS - I consider that it is a matter of national concern. If our leaders contend that the spread of communism concerns only the State authorities, that is a very good reason why the State Parliaments should be abolished, and we should have one government that could deal effectively with any organization that attempts to undermine the national well-being. The honorable member for Batman (Mr; Brennan) seems to uphold the principles of communism. I should not like to call him a disloyalist, but, from remarks that I have heard him pass in this chamber, I consider him to be anti-British. Whilst he takes the oath of allegiance to King and Empire, he speaks in disparaging terms of the little Mother Country that is responsible for our existence and progress. He mentioned, in the course of his speech a few days ago, that wherever the British Empire is represented, we see nothing but brass hats, gold braid, swords and pistols. I do not say that Great Britain has built up the greatest empire on earth entirely by peaceful means. From the dark ages Britain has fought its way to the position that it now occupies. Its world-wide dominions have rallied to its support, and the Empire has steadily progressed throughout the ages. Only a few years ago, we celebrated the centenary of William Wilberforce, the man who abolished slavery from the British Empire. Think of what happened before that event, when English boys and girls were sold as slaves in the market-places of the Old World to the highest bidder, just as we sell dumb beasts to-day. I remember reading at school about the abolition of slavery. One famous morning in August, the slaves gathered at the tops of hills and mountains, waiting for the dawn of the day when they were to be free. Since then the Empire has marched on, acquiring new dominions and helping those who needed assistance along the road on which they wished to proceed. [Leave to continue given. ~\ A hundred years is a long span when compared with the average life of man, but a very short period in the life of a nation. England's wars with Scotland and Ireland may leave room for criticism. I recall a. beautiful peroration delivered by a Scottish chieftain in his references to Great Britain's rise when those conflicts had long since ceased. He said - The Empire was built, not by saints and angels, but by the work of men's hands; cemented with men's honest blood within a world of tears; welded by the best brains of centuries past; not without the taint and reproach incidental to all human work, but constructed for the most part with pure and splendid purpose; growing as the trees grow while nations slept, led by the faults of others, as well as by the character of our forefathers; reaching with the ripple of a resistless tide over tracts and islands and continents, until our little Britain awakened to find itself the foster mother of nations, and the source of a great and united Empire. Such is Britain, which is despised by many of those who to-day are sheltering under the protection of its flag, and would run like rats for cover if anything happened to place Britain and our own country in jeopardy. We hear men saying that the Labour party has nothing in common with communism, yet a high priest of sovietism has sat in this chamber, and has acclaimed as greater than Lenin a man who is now standing up against communism and against the Federal Labour party. Jock Garden was one of the first to introduce this soulless and godless doctrine into the trade union movement of this country, and said: " Lang is greater than Lenin ". Communist teachings have had a most disturbing effect upon .industry throughout Australia. I believe in the Union Jack, but some honorable members opposite would uphold the red flag. Base and venal men have, through the ravages of communism, gained lucrative, positions in this country, . although they despise the flag of our Empire. The vilest dregs of the underworld gather in public places and signify themselves as saviours of the workers. As a. means to this end, they teach little Australian children to mock at the name of Christ, yet men in higher places look on with kindly tolerance at acts of blasphemy and sedition. Men who, during the last war, scoffed at the Anzacs, calling them " six-bob-a-day murderers are given high positions in this country, while the returned Anzac goes with dragging feet and fading hope to draw the dole. The deeds whereby the Anzacs proved their loyalty to the Empire have been clouded over by the acts of men who hate the Empire and secretly despise the soldiers who saved from Germany this fair land of Australia which these impostors would gladly hand over to the Russians. Many Anzacs died for this great country which they helped to develop. They were men from every walk of life and every creed. There were among them the humble and the proud, the rich and poor, the rough and the smooth, but together they were all . comrades. They had ideals. They comprised a human brotherhood which knew no base distinction, no rivalry and no selfish secrets. They would not protect their own lives by sacrificing the life of the other fellow. After this bright story of courage, mateship and unity in the face of danger, we now have records of repudiation, intimidation, disloyalty and dishonour. If we still cherish the deeds pf the Anzacs and the nationhood which they won for us, we should, in these troublous times, endeavour to improve conditions not only for ourselves but also for those who will come after us. We must rid ourselves of the welshers, the tricksters, the grafters, the high priests of sovietism, and anti-British importations and wicked Australians alike who, if they could, would tear down the cenotaph to prove how dearly they " love " the workers whose brothers died on Gallipoli. I trust that the feelings of bitterness displayed in some quarters will soon disappear, that our administration will he strict and honest, that the Australian people will realize the obvious necessity for greater unity and patriotism in these days of crises and that they will come closer together in a spirit of nationhood. We should all cherish and live up to the highest traditions of our race, and endeavour to emulate the great deeds of those men who transformed this land from a wilderness to the great country that it is to-day. and whose most noble and honorable conquests were made not by destroying but by promoting the wealth, numbers and happiness of the people. 451 KQB Gwydir 0 0 SCULLY, William Mr SCULLY .- I take this opportunity to direct the attention of the Government to the way in which our principal primary products have been acquired and handled by boards and committees, appointed by the Government. I disagree entirely with the views expressed by the honorable member for Hume (Mr. Collins), who said that the primary producers have every reason to be satisfied with the prices which they have received for their products. In whatever part qf Australia one' may visit one will find dissatisfaction with the methods which have been adopted in connexion with the handling of primary products and with the prices received. The Australian wheat crop is controlled by the Australian Wheat Board, appointed by a government which had no sense of proportion. The bungling which occurred in connexion with the handling of the wheat crop is unparalleled in the history of the Australian wheat industry, the very foundations of which have been shaken by maladministration. Had we not experienced a dry period during harvesting operations the results would have been even more disastrous. Up to the present time the price that the wheat-growers have received for their product has been ' very low indeed, and when we realize the methods adopted by the Australian Wheat Board that is not difficult to understand. The manager of the board is being paid the princely salary of £5,000 a year, plus travelling expenses, during a period when the wheat-growers have received lower prices than, with few exceptions, have ever been paid in the history of the wheat industry. Had not very strong representations been made by independent Country party members and by representatives of the Australian Labour party in this chamber, practically two-thirds of the wheat-growers would now be bankrupt. The Australian Wheat Board was appointed by a government which represents hig business interests, and the wheat-growers whose product was being handled were completely overlooked. The present Government, in which the Country party has strong representation, should disband the present Wheat Board and appoint another board on which the growers are adequately represented. The Government should ask the wheat-growers' organizations throughout Australia to select their representatives, and the other members of the board could -then be nominated by the Government. If the Board were reconstituted in the way suggested, the difficulties which now prevail could be overcome, and there would be greater satisfaction in the wheat industry. The acute shortage of cornsacks during the last harvest was brought about by incompetence and misunderstanding of the actual position of the wheatgrowers. No arrangements were made for the supply of jute. The wheat-farmers and the wheat-merchants were bewildered because they did not know what the Government proposed to do. When the crop was harvested sufficient cornsacks were not available and considerable inconvenience and loss occurred in the wheat-growing States. Owing to a shortage of cornsacks the wheat after being harvested was left uncovered in the fields. When the price of wheatbags was fixed many wheat-growers, particularly those in New South Wales, had to purchase second-hand sacks at about 9s. a dozen, but many had to pay as much as 12s. a dozen. Some of the bags which were sold at 12s. a dozen were purchased by merchants at 3s. or 4s. a dozen and resold to the wheat-growers at 12s. a dozen. Notwithstanding such a glaring instance of profiteering, the Government declined to prosecute merchants for selling above the fixed price or for refusing to make refunds. Bagged wheat was sent to the rail head for despatch to Sydney, and I know of many instances in which growers had to pay dockage and rebagging charges amounting to 13. 6d. a bag. Wheat-growers who paid 12s. a dozen for bags were docked another ls. 6d. a bag, which meant that they lost 2s. 6d. on each bag marketed. With wheat at 7s. 6d. a bag, farmers who received an advance of only 5s. a bag were placed in a disastrous financial position. Although the attention of the Government was directed to this matter, no attempt Was made to investigate the trouble. The wheat-growers who sent their product to market were at the mercy of the Wheat Board on which the wheat merchants are strongly represented. When inquiries were made a brief report would be forwarded to the affect that the bags were damaged and consequently dockage and rebagging charges amounting to ls. 6d. a bag had to be imposed. This; charge was made on hundreds of thousands of bags and no proper investigation was made. If agents cared to be unscrupulous - I do not say that they were - the unfortunate wheat-growers would be victimized. I directed the attention of the Department of Commerce to the unsatisfactory conditions which existed in this respect but without success. There is grave dissatisfaction concerning the way in which the crop has been handled by the Australian Wheat Board. 452 JSC 0 0 BRENNAN, Frank Mr Brennan - The board represents the Government. 452 KQB 0 0 SCULLY, William Mr SCULLY - Yes. Strong representations have been made to me from all parts of Australia to urge that the present board be disbanded and that a new board, on which the growers are directly represented, be appointed. When I asked for a reconstitution of the Wheat Board I met with a blunt refusal. I could spend hours telling of the anomalies and injustices that have arisen. Commercial activities receive every attention, but little attention is given to our first line of defence, the wheat and wool industries. The Government should set up two committees, one to inquire into dockages, and the. other to investigate the charge that- wheat-farmers have been forced to pay for cornsacks 3s. or 4s. a dozen above the price fixed. With the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Wilson), I say without hesitation that a further advance of ls. a bushel should be made to the farmers. It is useless to say that the money cannot be found, because to-morrow £100,000,000 could be found to prosecute the war. It is essential, at all costs, ,to save this great industry. To enable that to be done an additional ls. a bushel is necessary, because 75 per cent, of the farmers are on the verge of bankruptcy. The Government demands loyalty from the farmers and in return it should be loyal to them. The newspapers recently stated that the Minister for Commerce (Mr. Archie Cameron) would shortly make an important pronouncement about restriction of the acreage to be sown in the forthcoming season. Such a policy as that would be only in keeping with the bungling that has characterized this Government's dealings with the wheat industry. Nearly two-thirds and, in my district, at least one-half, of the crop has already been sown. Evidently the newspaper announcement was inspired, because the press would be hardly likely to make a statement like that without reason. The chaos and contusion that exist in the industry as the result of the statement can well be imagined and, if there is to be any such pronouncement by the Minister it should not be delayed one hour. I strongly advise the Government, however, not to limit the acreage, because to do so would be a policy of despair. One never knows what to-morrow may bring, and either drought or excessive rain might at any time lay waste a huge part of the crop. I was particularly interested in the remarks about wool appraisement made by the honorable member for Hume. What, views the honorable member holds about the price are beside the point, because it is generally admitted that the wool clip was acquired by the Commonwealth Government on behalf of the British Government at well below actual value. The former Agent-General for Western Australia, Sir Hal Colebatch, who is a recognized authority on wool, on his return from England, declared that the Australian wool clip bad been acquired at too low a rate, and that Bradford was amazed at the price. As one honorable member on my right interjected when the honorable member for Hume was speaking, the wool has been re- sold by the British Government, to its Allies and other countries needing it at prices far in excess of those paid to the Australian grower. The wool appraisement scheme has been entirely unsatisfactory. Like the Wheat Board the Central Wool Committee should be reconstituted on lines of producer-control. It is admitted by all concerned that the appraisements of the first series of clips were much below value. I have been told by men who have spent a lifetime in the wool industry that the appraisements were made at least 3d. per lb. below what they should have been. Protests both to the Central Wool Committee and to the Minister for Commerce were unavailing. It was said that when the wool appraisement scheme was being wound up there would be a. readjustment; nevertheless, if the appraisements were 3d. per lb. below what they should have been at the beginning, it would be the same at the end. Before he joined the Ministry the honorable member for Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron) himself declared in this House that the wool was being appraised at 2d. or 3d. per lb. below its real value. A constituent of mine who runs 10,000 sheep was practically ruined as the result of the slackness. He knew his commitments and what his wool was worth, from what he had received previously, but, when his wool was appraised at 3d. per lb. less than the appraisement should have been, on a clip from 10,000 sheep, honorable members can imagine his predicament. Furthermore, the whole of the wool broking business of Australia has been handed over to big business and vested interests. What, has been the result of this action? I had an application for the establishment of a wool appraising centre at Moree, which, being situated in one of the largest wool-growing areas in Australia, is eminently suited for the establishment of an appraisement centre; but the application was refused. Similarly, wool auctions, which formerly were held at Tamworth, were discontinued, and a similar state of affairs exists at Guyra. The appraisement of wool from those centres is now carried out in Sydney. Every effort has been made by the vested interests now controlling the wool industry to close down country centres. Last session the. honorable member for Forrest (Mr. Prowse) moved the adjournment of the House in order to draw the attention of the. Government to the wholesale closing down of these country centres. Instead of doing this, the Government should be taking every opportunity to .decentralize the wool industry by creating new appraisement centres wherever possible. Recently I was impressed by an article which I read in a newspaper dealing with the consternation caused throughout the north and north-west of the State by the action of the Central Wool Committee in denying Newcastle additional facilities for wool appraisement. We of the northern and north-western portions of New South Wales naturally look upon Newcastle as our port of export for our produce. If facilities are not available at Newcastle we are required to pay the extra freight on an additional 100 miles to Sydney, in order to have it sent overseas. It is our earnest wish to do everything possible to assist Newcastle to become our shipping centre. I shall read this article, in order to show just how vested interests are operating to the detriment of wool-growers throughout the length and breadth of the north-western portion of New South Wales. The article appeared in the Newcastle Morning Herald of the 30th April. A question was asked earlier about it to-day by the honorable member for Newcastle (Mr. Watkins). The article reads - PLANS HELD UP BY WOOL COMMITTEE. Sydneyfirm's £60,000 Store its Cook's Hill. Refusal of the Central Wool Committee to grant a licence threatens to deprive Newcastle of a £60.000 wool store, which a well-known firm of wool-brokers plans to build in Darbystreet. The Mayor (Aid. J. XL Wiggins) announced last night that he was taking immediate steps toappeal to the Federal Government against the Wool Committee's action. Urgent telegrains will be sent this morning to the Prime Minister (Mr. R. G. Menzies) and the whole of the Federal Cabinet. The wording of the telegram will be: " Understand Central Wool Committee will not grant wool licence for Newcastle. £60,000 building held up. Retarding development of Newcastle and northern part of State. Newcastle Council requests your support for immediate issue of licence to permit satisfactory handling of this Season's wool clip." . First intimation of the company's proposal was given When a firm of Sydney architects submitted tentative plans to the Works Committee for a three-storey building in Darbystreet, several weeks ago". It was stated that the building would cost £60,000. The company's name was not mentioned, although it was understood it was Pitt, Son, and Badgery. "The chief importance of the proposal," the Mayor said last night. " is that it involves further tangible recognition of Newcastle as a wool-selling centre. "If one big outside firm sets up a wool-selling centre and store here, others will follow. It is emphatically in the city's interest that nothing should be allowed to stand in the way. The erection of the building means employment for Newcastle tradesmen, and the fact that many more tons of wool will bo shipped from Newcastle every year means more work on the Newcastle waterfront, and jobs for clerks and many other skilled employees. " Apparently powerful Melbourne influences are at work to thwart the company's plans. Greater Newcastle Council must not and will not lose any time in throwing what weight it can into the fight. "Once again." the Mayor added, " Newcastle is facing the challenge of vested interests in the capital cities. Newcastle wheat silos were built after years of agitation, and in face of the fiercestopposition. Nenco has had to meet all kinds of competition to establish Newcastle as a wool-selling centre. Last year there was the fight over our right to recognition as a hides appraisement centre. It would be most unfortunate if the city's development as a wool-selling centre were hamstrung at the very moment the future seems assured." That article shows clearly how big business dominates the wool industry. Indeed, the actions of this Government definitely reflect the wishes of vested interests. On all occasions when the " acid test " has been put on the Government it has backed the Wool Committee and the Wheat Board in their vested-interest outlook. I hope that the Government will, at least, reconsider its decision - after all it is paramount in these things - -and give a direction to the Wool Committee to grant a licence whichwill enable the erection of the £60,000 building, the provision of which will do much to relieve the congestion that is occurring in the metropolitan areas, and provide what the wool-growers consider to be essential, namely, appraisement at as little cost as possible. I hope also that the Government will give a direction to the Wool Committee that, wherever possible, appraisement centres be established at places such as Moree, Tamworth and Guyra, in order to meet the demand in those districts. 1 should like also to refer to the tobacco growing industry. In the great trial through which we are now passing, with so many thousands of workers unemployed, especially in the northern areas of New South Wales, and when it is vitally important that efforts should be made to conserveour purchasing power in America, the Government should pay some attention to that important industry, and should lose no time in announcing its ppolicy with regard to the tobacco industry, i f the tobacco industry were tackled properly, within twelve months it could give employment to 30,000 men at various places throughout Australia. If the Government would take action to increase the import duty on tobacco and reduce the excise, as the Scullin Government did, a valuable impetus would be given to the industry. People are willing to engage in this work and are only waiting for the necessary assistance. There is ample suitable land available in the Commonwealth to carry on tobacco-growing on a large scale. The Government should free itself of the malignant influence of the tobacco monopoly which, at all times, has endeavoured to suppress tobacco-growing in Australia. I have a friend in the tobacco-manufacturing trade, and he has imported leaf from all parts of the world, where first-class quality leaf is grown. He has compared it with the Australian-grown leaf, and his opinion is that the Australian-grown product is at least as good as, if not superior to, the imported leaf. The belief that Australian-grown tobacco is not equal in quality to the imported product is entirely unfounded. It is really an impression instilled into the mind of the general public of Australia by the propaganda of the influential tobacco monopoly, which is bleeding this country and preventing the growth of an industry capable, I repeat, of giving employment to 30,000 Australians within twelve months. I desire to state my attitude, and that of my party, to the war and the defence of Australia. We are, at this moment, living under a cloud ; no one knows what to-morrow may bring forth. In this war our enemy, this madman Hitler, has scrapped all international codes, so that his conduct is governed only by opportunity and expediency. There is no man in Australia to-day worthy of the name who is not prepared to do everything in his power to protect Australia as a part of the British Empire. We hurl back in the teeth of those who make it the accusation that the members of the Labour party are disloyal. This is old propaganda about the Labour party and the Communists. It has been used before, and now it is being used again. Those who spread it know that the members of the Labour party are just as loyal as are any other parties in Australia, but they think that they might reap some immediate political advantage by branding the Labour party as disloyal. That is playing the game pretty low down, and the electors will not be duped. As for- the primary producers, they want the Government to apply a policy that will give them some stability, some security for the future. They dp not want to be insulted by having to listen to this spurious propa ganda about Communists. We are all Australians, and though we may differ regarding details, we are one when it comes to fundamental principles of loyalty to the nation of our birth. It-is only by united action that we can put forth our best effort at this time of crisis. For my part, I am always prepared to do everything I can to help forward the defence of Australia and of the Empire. Debate (on motion by Mr. Bernard Corser) adjourned. 455 miscellaneous Motion (by Mr. Fairbairn) agreed to- That the House, at its rising, adjourn until to-morrow at 2.30 p.m. 455 papers The following papers were presented : - Convention for facilitating International Circulation of Films of Educational character - Proces-Verbal concerning application of certain Articles, Geneva, 12th September, 1938. Lieutenant-Colonel J. W. Mitchell - Civil action - Letters, dated 22nd December, 1939, and 22nd January, 1940, from the Minister for the Army to Chief Secretary.. Victoria. Postmaster-General's Department - Twentyninth Report, for year 1938-39. Audit Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1940, No. 40. Commonwealth Public Service Act - Appointment of H. P. Brown, Prime Minister's Department. Customs Act - Proclamation prohibiting the exportation (except under certain conditions) of - Paper, waste, used and secondhand (dated 9th April, 1940). Excise Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1940, No. 48. Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired for Defence purposes - Geraldton, Western Australia. Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory (Administration) Act - Crown Lauds Ordinance - Reasons for resumption of reservation of certain lands suburban to Darwin. Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act- Ordinances of 1940 - No. 2 - Adoption of Children. No. 3 - Canberra University College. No. 4 - Police Superannuation. No. 5- Canberra Community Hospital. Regulations Amended - Building and Services Ordinance. Police Ordinance. Wine Export Bounty Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1940, No. 49. 456 22:24:00 House adjourned at 10.24 p.m. 456 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS The following answers to questions were circulated: - 456 456 KK7 0 0 JENNINGS, John Mr Jennings s asked the Minister for Repatriation, upon notice - In connexion with the proposed building of a new Repatriation Hospital at Randwick to replace the present Prince of Wales Hospital, which was the subject of an inquiry by the Public Works Committee, has the delay in the commencement of the building been due to a conflict of opinion between the Federal and State authorities on the question of the fee-simple of the land? Has the Government decided to build a Repatriation Hospital at Concord, New South Wales ? If so, is this to be a temporary structure or is it proposed to erect a permanent building in this locality? If it is to be a permanent building, has the project been the subject of consideration and report by the Public Works Committee? 456 KVN UAP 1 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr Street - The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows : - Endeavours were made to negotiate with the Government of New South Wales for an exchange of the fee-simple to the land on which the Repatriation Hospital is erected, for land owned by the Commonwealth in that State. The outbreak of war made it necessary to retain for defence purposes the Commonwealth land in question, and the proposed exchange could not be proceeded with. No decision has yet been made on these matters by the Government. The necessity for providing extensive hospital accommodation for serving members of the Defence Forces has made it necessary to review the whole question, including the possibility of erecting on suitable sites hospitals of a permanent nature which would be used for Defence Force patients during the war and the treatment of repatriation patients after the war. A report on the matter has been made to the War Cabinet by a committee appointed to investigate the question and it will bedeait with as soon as possible. 456 456 JNM 0 0 BADMAN, Albert Mr Badman n asked the Minister for Commerce, upon notice - How many bushels of wheat were acquired from farmers when the Government took control of the No. 1 Wheat Pool? How many bushels were acquired from merchants at the same time? What deductions have been made from the price obtained from the No. 1 Pool in addition to the railway freight? At what price per dozen were the cornsacks from the No. 1 Pool sold to the merchants? 456 JTY CP 0 0 CAMERON, Archie Mr Archie Cameron - The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows : - No record is available of the acquired wheat stored by a farmer on his farm at the date of the acquisition order. The Wheat Acquisition Regulations provide that a grower shall deliver his wheat only to a licensed agent of the hoard. After the date of the acquisition order (9th October, 1939) 1,371,000 bushels of old crop wheat were delivered by farmers to licensed agents, and taken into the No. I Pool. The total quantity of wheat acquired at the 9th October, 1939. in the hands of merchants, mills and bulk handling authorities was 16.307,000 bushels. Thefollowing are the deductions which have been approved, in addition to rail freight, from the No. 1 Pool Advance: - Wheat acquired ex Merchants, etc., on 9th October, 1939, No cornsacks ex No. 1 Pool have been sold by the board to merchants. 457 457 JXL 0 0 FROST, Charles Mr Frost t asked the Minister for Supply and Development, upon, notice - What is the total amount of purchases made and purchases recommended to be made by the Government for defence and war purposes since the commencement of the war? How much has been spent in each State? 457 KV7 UAP 1 0 STEWART, Frederick Sir Frederick Stewart - As the war expenditure covers such a wide area, and involves a number of departments, I am not able to indicate what the total expenditure for defence and war purposes has been to date. If, however, specific items or classes of expenditure are indicated, I will endeavour to secure the information sought. 457 457 KF9 0 0 GREEN, Albert Mr Green n asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice - Is it a fact that there are no bathrooms in the cottages housing married 'or single employees at Rawlinna and other centres on the trans-Australian railway? Will the Minister consult with the Com: monwealth Railways Commissioner with a view to having funds provided on the 1940-41 Estimates so that this very necessary provision may be installed before the end of the year! 457 K4X CP 0 0 NOCK, Horace Mr Nock - The Minister for the Interior has supplied the following answers : - Bathrooms are provided in cottages on the trans-Australian railway, with the exception of those at Rawlinna. - Material is now being obtained to enable bathrooms to be provided for the cottages at Rawlinna during 1940-41. 457 457 KX7 0 0 WARD, Edward Mr Ward d asked the Minister for the Army, upon notice - Will he lay on the table of the House all papers in connexion with the case of Mr. S. G. Gill, senior examiner of boot and shoe supplies for the Commonwealth Government in Sydney, who has been advised of his transfer to Melbourne, including all evidence submitted by a deputation of boot and shoe manufacturers, who requested the removal of Mr, G'ill? Is it a fact that the man appointed to succeed Mr. Gill in Sydney is a Mr. Austin, who is a brother of the managing director of the Austin Shoe Company of Melbourne? Was McMurtrie (New South Wales) Proprietary Limited one of the firms which objected to Mr. Gill, and was this firm included in the list of hoot and shoe manufacturers accused by the Minister for Supply and Development of having attempted war profiteering in connexion with the supply of footwear for the defence forces.? 458 KVN UAP 1 0 STREET, Geoffrey Mr Street - The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows : - I shall be pleased to lay the file on the table in the Library for perusal by the honorable member. Yes. Mr. Austin has been employed in the Inspection Branch since the 24th August, 1936, and was transferred to Sydney in December, 1939. 3. (a) Yes. (b) According to advice received from the Department of Supply and Development, the reply is in the affirmative. 458 458 KFE 0 0 GREGORY, Henry Mr Gregory y asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice - In relation to the cost of superphosphates, has there been any increase of the cost of Australian sulphuric acid during the past two years ? What has been the amount of the bounty paid on the production of sulphuric acid during the years 1937-38 and 1938-39? 458 KUG UAP 1 0 SPENDER, Percy Mr Spender - The Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following answers : - Yes. 1937-38. £83,144 Is. lld.;1938-39, £87,575 7s. 9d 458 458 N76 UAP 1 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr Menzies s. - On the 18th April, 1940, the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Forde) asked the following questions : - How many persons are employed in the Department of Information? What has been the total cost of this department to 31st March, 1940, in respect of - salaries and travelling expenses; and other expenditure? I have now obtained the following information : - 458 458 KUG UAP 1 0 SPENDER, Percy Mr Spender - On the 19th April, 1940, when the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) asked if I would ascertain whether there had been any retrogression on the New York market of Australian stocks, I promised to obtain information regarding the prices of Australian stocks in the United States of America. I now submit the following prices of Australian stocks in New York on the dates shown: -