1945-08-29 17 3 1 REPS 4952 0 House of Representatives 1945-08-29 Mr. Speaker (Hon. J. S. Rosevear) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers. 4952 miscellaneous 4952 4952 10000 0 0 SPEAKER, Mr Mr SPEAKER - I have to announce that I have received a notification from the Chief Electoral Officer for the Commonwealth in connexion with the writ which I issued on the 18th July last for the election of a member to serve for the electoral division of Fremantle, in the State of Western Australia, to fill the vacancy caused by the death of the Right Honorable John Curtin, and that, by the notification, it appears that Kim Edward Beazley has been elected in pursuance of the said writ. Mr. Beazley made and subscribed the oath of allegiance. Later: 4952 JYV Hume 0 0 FULLER, Arthur Mr FULLER - Can the Minister for the Interior give to the House the latest figures in the Fremantle by-election? Is it a fact that four out of every five service personnel, -who voted in the byelection, cast their votes in favour of the successful Labour candidate? How many servicemen voted in this by-election compared with the number who voted in that constituency in the general election in 1943? 4952 K9G Kalgoorlie ALP Minister Assisting the Minister for Works and Housing 1 0 JOHNSON, Herbert Mr JOHNSON - I have had the opportunity to examine - I may add with some satisfaction - the details of the polling at the Fremantle by-election. However, it would be unwise for me to rely on my memory to answer all the points raised by the honorable gentleman, so I shall secure the information that he seeks and supply a detailed answer. 4952 motion 4952 4952 A48 Macquarie ALP Prime Minister and Treasurer 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY . - by leave - It is with great pleasure that I inform the House formally of the cessation of hostilities with Japan. By leave of the House, I incorporate in Hansard the texts of the various nom.munications between the Japanese Government and the Governments of Britain, the United States of America, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and China. These are - . On the 10th August, 1945, the Japanese Government addressed the following message to .the Governments of the United States of America, Britain, China and the Soviet Union : - In obedience to the gracious command of His Majesty the Emperor, who is ever anxious to enhance the cause of world peace and desires earnestly to bring about an early termination of hostilities with a view to saving mankind from the calamities to be imposed upon it by a further continuation of war, the Japanese Government asked several weeks ago. the Soviet Government, with which neutral relations then prevailed, to render its good offices in restoring peace vis-a-vis the enemy power's. Unfortunately, these efforts in the interest nf peace having failed, the Japanese Government, in conformity with the august wish of His Majesty to restore general peace and put rd end to the untold sufferings entailed by the war as quickly as possible decided on the following: - The Japanese Government is ready to accept the terms enumerated in the joint declaration issued at Potsdam on the 26th July, 1945, by the heads of the Governments of Great Britain, America, and China, and later subscribed to by the Soviet Government, with the understanding that the said declaration does' not include any demand which prejudices His Majesty's prerogatives as a sovereign ruler. On the 11th August, 1945, the following, reply was sent by the United States Secretary of , y tate. (Mr. Byrnes) on behalf of t. lie Allied 'Governments : - From the moment of surrender, the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government l.o rule the statu shall be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate the surrender terms. The Emperor will be required to authorize :ind ensure the signature by the Government of Japan and the Japanese Imperial General Head-quarters of the surrender terms necessary to carry out the provisions of the Potsdam declaration ; and shall issue his command to all the Japanese military, naval and air authorities and to all the forces under their control, wherever located, to cease active operations, to surrender their arms; and to issue such other orders as the Supreme Commander may require to give effect to the surrender terms. Immediately upon the surrender, the Japanese Government shall transport prisoners of war and civilian internees to places of safety, as directed, where they can quickly lie placed aboard Allied transports. The ultimate form of government of Japan shall,' in accordance with the Potsdam declaration, ,be established by the freely expressed will of the Japanese people. The armed forces of the Allied Powers will remain in Japan until the purposes set forth in the Potsdam declaration are achieved. On the 14th August, 1945, the following reply was received from the Japanese Government : - With reference to the Japanese Government's note of 10th August, 1945, regarding their acceptance of the provisions of the Potsdam declaration and the reply of the Governments of the United States, Great Britain, the Soviet Union and China sent by the American Secretary of State, Byrnes, under the date of 11th August, 1945, the Japanese Government have the honour to communicate to the Governments of the Four Powers as follows: - His Majesty the Emperor has issued an Imperial Rescript regarding Japan's acceptance of the provisions of the Potsdam declaration. His Majesty the Emperor is _ prepared to authorize and ensure the signature by his Government and the Imperial General Head-quarters of the necessary terms for carrying out the provisions of the Potsdam declaration. His Majesty is also prepared to issue his commands to all the military, naval and air authorities of Japan and all the forces under their control wherever located to cease active operations, to surrender arms and to issue such other orders as may be required by the Supreme Commander of the Allied "Forces for the execution of the above-mentioned terms. All dates given are London time. The reply from the Japanese Government was received in Australia on the 15th August, 1945, Australian time. 4953 4953 A48 Macquarie ALP Prime Minister and Treasurer 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY . - The motion that I have the honour to submit on this historic occasion is an Address to His Majesty the King, tendered in a spirit of great relief and thankfulness. We members of the British 'Commonwealth of Nations are free nations bound together with the King as the constitutional link. To us, the Throne in no way usurps the rights of the people, lt is a symbol of the liberty of the people. With us, the prerogatives of the Crown have become the privileges of the people. I now read to the House the message received from His Majesty on the occasion of the cessation of hostilities in the Pacific - The surrender of Japan has brought to a victorious end the war which has engaged our full fighting strength all over the world. 1 send my heartfelt congratulations to the men and women of my navies, armies and air forces throughout the British Commonwealth and Empire. Through the long years of the grim struggle with our enemies in the West and in the East your unflinching resolution and indomitable courage in the face of manifold adversity have earned you the eternal gratitude of your countrymen. Many of your comrades have fallen in the fight. With you I grieve for their loss, for the sufferings of the wounded and for the sorrows of the bereaved. With you I look forward to the safe homecoming of those who have had to endure captivity. By God's mercy the forces of evil have been overthrown. But many tasks remain to b'c accomplished if the full blessings of peace are to be restored to a suffering world. It is the duty of each one of us to ensure that your comrades have not died in vain and that your own hard won achievements are not lost to the cause of freedom in which you undertook them. On behalf of all my peoples I thank you. God bless you all. (Sgd.) George R.I. Never before in our history have so many fateful and stupendous events occurred in what is actually so brief a space of time. Fascism and Nazi-ism have been destroyed, the Japanese menace has gone, and the ideals of democracy have triumphed. The peoples of the British Commonwealth, together with our great allies, are triumphant, and we have now before us the great task of bringing freedom and lasting peace to a war-weary world. At this moment, when we have emerged from a great peril, it is fitting that the Parliament should address the King with this expression of loyalty and gratitude which I now have the honour to submit. I moye - That the. following address, be forwarded toHia Majesty: - To the Kino's Most Excellent Majesty: Most Gracious Sovereign - We, Your Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, the members of the House of Representatives- of the Commonwealth of Australia, in Parliament assembled, desire to express to Your Majesty our heartfelt congratulations on the victorious conclusion to the World War. We rejoice with Your Majesty in the deliverance brought to all the enslaved peoples by the triumph . of Your Majesty's forces in conjunction with those of Your Majesty's allies. We desire to express the feeling which exists among Your Majesty's Australian subjects that Your Majesty and Your Gracious Consort have by unfailing courage and constancy set an inspiring example during our darkest days, and that your personal exertions1,, your determination to share the trials of your, subjects, and your unfailing sympathy with. them, in the ordeal they have endured, have contributed to. the; high national morale which helped, to ensure victory. We devoutly trust that- Your Majesty's' reign, so many years of which have. been, darkened, by war, many long continue; in a. world at peace. 4954 N76 Kooyong Leader of the Opposition 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - I have the honour to second the motion, which is in no sense a formality. It is a trite saying that, although thrones have been falling for the greater part of the twentieth century, that of Great Britain was never more secure. How is this paradox to be explained % Not merely because we cling, to the juristic conception of the kingship, as a legal nexus between all portions1 of His Majesty's Dominions'; not merely because we see in the Crown a symbol of a political unity which lives side by side with utter independence. First and foremost, the Crown has grown in strength because in two wars we have had for King two men of simple elevation of character, homeliness of affection, sympathy and understanding, who have been beside and of their people in all the vicissitudes of the struggles. And beside each of these Kings in his turn has been a Queen who. represented to her people the embodiment of all. that is good in wife,, mother, cheerful and courageous friend. We thank God for the service and example of Their Majesties, to whom, our loyalty is pledged and our affection freely given. 4954 F4T Darling Downs 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr FADDEN . - I have the duty, honour and privilege of associating the Australian Country Party with this motion affirming our loyalty and appreciation, and with the sentiments expressed by the Prime Minister (Mr. 'Chifley), ably supported by the Leader of the. Opposition (Mr. Menzies). We. are privileged, indeed, fo be part and parcel of. the great British Empire, which has stood the strains and stresses of two wars. The struggle just concluded has been, long and costly, but the material that constitutes, the Empire has stood every test that has. been required of it, and I am sure that the co-operation of the British peoples will be the foundation, on which we shall, build an enduring peace. Question resolved in the affirmative. 4854 Motion (by Mr. Chifley) - -byleave - proposed - That the thanks of this House be accorded to the officers, warrant officers, petty officers and men of tie Royal Australian Navy, for their, heroic services in. every theatre of war, for the guardianship of Australia from the attacks of our enemies, for the unceasing vigilance in the patrol of many seas, for their courage and skill in convoying their soldier comrades and supplies, to operational areas, and for the prestige they have won for their country wherever they have been. That the thanks of this. House be accorded to the officers, warrant officers,, noncommissioned officers and men of the Australian Military Forces in the field for their courage and efficiency, their endurance in circumstances of unexampled, hardship, for their magnificent achievements and for their undaunted spirit which has carried them through years of toil and suffering to complete victory. That the. thanks of this House be accorded to the officers, warrant officers, noncommissioned officers and men of the Royal Australian Air Force for their brilliant daring and conspicuous skill over land and sea, and for their calm courage and devotion to whatever dangerous and vital duties they have been allotted. That the thanks of this House be offered to the men of the Merchant Navy, who. carried uut the vital task of keeping open the supply lines, always at great risk and imposing severe tests upon their endurance. That the thanks of this House be accorded to the women of all the auxiliary services of the three arms of the lighting forces for their devotion and skill and solicitude for the sick and wounded of our sailors, soldiers and airmen. That this House records its deep appreciation of the devotion and sacrifice of the fathers, mothers, wives and sisters of Australia's sailors, soldiers and airmen. That this House records its deep appreciation of the efforts, money and gifts from the women, men and children of Australia to mitigate the hardships of Australian fighting men. to alleviate the lot of our prisoners of war and to make more comfortable the sick and wounded. That the thanks of this House be offered to munitions and war workers generally in secondary and primary industries; to those men of 1 01 4- IS who gave valuable home service in garrison and other work, and to the Volunteer Defence Corps. That' this House acknowledges with deep submission and reverence the heroism of those who have fallen in the service of their country, mid tenders its sympathy to their relatives in the hour of their sorrow and their pride. 4955 N76 Kooyong Leader of the Opposition 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES . - I second the motion. It is a comprehensive motion, which has the heartfelt support of all honorable members of all parties. It is a.n expression, not only of gratitude, but also of remembrance. Victory has come to our arms because, in the vital matter of national effort we have, with all our differences, been one people. Sacrifice lias fallen upon all, and death has invaded the 'homes of both rich and poor alike. In what was known to be a great and critical adventure, a sense of common purpose has prevailed. We now look forward to the great and critical adventure of peace. Let us resolve that, whatever political differences have arisen or may arise, we shall, as honest disputants, continue to believe that we still seek a common purpose by our various roads, and that we are still one people. Victory has been achieved with infinite difficulty; it may be lost so easily if the sense of high fid venture in a great cause deserts us. 4955 F4T Darling Downs 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr FADDEN . - The Australian Country party associates itself with the motion of appreciation by a grateful nation to iiic men and women of the fighting forces and the auxiliary services. In December, 1941, this House approved the declaration of war against Japan and pledged itself to do everything possible to defend the Commonwealth and its Territories, and to carry on hostilities until final victory over our enemies had been achieved. Due to the courage, determination, and unexcelled fighting qualities of our fighting men and women, in association with our allies, we can meet happily to-day under peace-time conditions to hear in this National Parliament the declaration of Japan's surrender. After a long period of war, in which almost every country of the world has been engaged, peace brings to us not only great blessings and privileges, but also many and great responsibilities. Upon us in this Parliament, as trustees for the people of Australia, rests the responsibility for seeing that our fighting men and women shall be placed in good jobs worthy of the determination, courage, and sacrifice shown on land and sea and in the air at such places as Tobruk, the Kokoda Trail and Malaya. Peace brings with it the duty of exercising eternal vigilance so that war shall never again afflict peoples of the world, and that those who have participated in the struggle shall be properly rehabilitated. In paying homage to our fighting men and women, and in accepting the responsibility for the reinstatement of those who will return, let us be reverently mindful of those who have made the supreme sacrifice. To those who have been the victims of enemy domination in prison camps we have a duty ; we must do all that we can to compensate them for their sufferings in body and in mind. I agree with the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies) that our responsibilities far transcend all party political considerations. A grateful nation must see that those who are privileged to return from battle areas shall be properly cared for, and that their reinstatement in civil life shall be wisely and expeditiously carried out. Question resolved in the affirmative. Motion (by Mr. Chifley) agreed to - That Mr. Speaker forward copies of the foregoing resolution to the various Ministers of State for communication to the personnel referred to therein. 4956 Motion (by Mr. Chifley) - by leave - proposed - That this House offers to the Supreme Commander in the Pacific (General Douglas MacArthur) its warmest congratulations on the success achieved by the Australian and Allied forces under his command, and recalls with deep gratitude his outstanding contribution to the victory in the Pacific and to the defence of Australia during the most critical period of our history. 4956 N76 Kooyong Leader of the Opposition 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES . - I second the motion. General MacArthur came to us from the defence of the Philippines, already a legendary figure. His arrival brought comfort and strength to the Australian people. His record of brilliant and unbroken success ever since is theconvincing proof of the soundness of his strategy and the. true quality of his leadership. It was not without its own difficulties for an American general to become a supreme commander in the territory and over the forces of Australia. But Douglas MacArthur encompassed this task not only with outstanding success but to the complete and glad satisfaction of every Australian. 4956 F4T Darling Downs 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr FADDEN . - The Country party associates itself with the resolution of appreciation to be extended to General Douglas MacArthur as the result of the motion of the Prim* Minister (Mr. Chifley). I endorse the sentiments already expressed. Without desiring to take from the achievements and merits of General MacArthur in any way, I would say that he was the recipient of wholehearted, conscientious co-operation from those that served with and under him. We must not overlook the part played in the achievements by our own commanders in the Navy, the Army and the Air Force. We are grateful for the fine leadership, strategy, determination and courage of General MacArthur. Question resolved in the affirmative. 4956 4956 A48 Macquarie ALP Prime Minister and Treasurer 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - by leave - On the 26th July, 1945, during the meeting of the Big Three at Potsdam, a joint declaration was issued by Great Britain, the United States of America and the Republic of China calling on Japan to surrender. The Potsdam Declaration has already been published in full. It prescribed among other things that Japan should be disarmed, stripped of her possessions and confined to her four main islands. It also laid down that stern justice would be meted out to war criminals and that the Allies would occupy Japan until these objectives were assured and a peacefully inclined and responsible government elected by the freely expressed will of the Japanese people had been established. After the Japanese Cabinet had considered the Potsdam Declaration, the Japanese Prime Minister declared that it was the intention of the Japanese Government to ignore the statement am! to prosecute the war to the bitter end. Thereafter, the Allied attacks on Japan itself increased in severity, culminating with the release of the first atomic bomb on the city of Hiroshima on the 6th August, 1945. Ou the 8th August, 1945, the Soviet Foreign Minister (M. Molotov) summoned the Japanese Ambassador and informed him that the Soviet -would consider itself at war with Japan from the 9th August, 1945. Russian forces crossed the Manchurian border early on the morning of the 9th August, 1945, and at 11 a.m. on the same day a second atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. On the following day, the 10th August, 1945, the Japanese Government made a broadcast announcement and addressed a communication through the Swedish and Swiss Governments for transmission to the United States of America, Britain, China and the Soviet Union accepting the Potsdam declaration, provided the acceptance did not compromise the prerogative of the Emperor as sovereign ruler of Japan. The British Government informed the Australian Government that it was considering the broadcast and consulting their Allies, though no official text had been received. The Australian Government immediately telegraphed its views to the Dominions Office and to overseas posts indicating that, in its opinion, the Emperor should have no immunity from responsibility for Japan's acts of aggression and proved war crimes. The text of the note to the British Government was received by the Australian Government on the morning of the 11th August, 1945. On the same day, the British Government informed us that ' a proposed reply had already been received from the United States of America. Britain had replied immediately, and advised us accordingly. The British Government, however, desired the agreement of Marshal Stalin and Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek to these tei- ins. The Australian Government, within a matter of a very few hours after receipt, communicated its views to the effect that the signature of the Emperor should be required in order to associate him personally with the defeat of Japanese, militarism; also that there should be clear recognition that the authority of the Allied Commander would be supreme am i that all other authority would lapse; and that any tendency to save the face of the Emperor or-give bini immunity should be resolutely avoided. However, it is doubtful i whether 'these "views we're received in time for full consideration, as the reply of the United .States of America Government was sent to the Swiss Government, on the 11th August, 1945, for transmission to the Japanese Government. This reply was to the effect that, from the moment of surrender the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government would be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers; that the Emperor would be required to authorize and ensure the signature by the Government of Japan and the Japanese Imperial General Head-quarters of the surrender terms; that prisoners of war and internees must be safeguarded ; and that the ultimate form of Government of Japan would be determined according to the freely expressed will of the Japanese people. The Japanese Government accepted these terms on the 14th August, 1945. On receipt of the Japanese acceptance, the President of the United States of America issued a statement appointing General Douglas MacArthur as Supreme Allied Commander to receive the Japanese surrender and stating that Britain, Russia and China would be represented by high ranking officers. Meantime the Allied armed forces had been ordered to suspend offensive action. This was followed by broadcasts by the British Prime Minister, Mr. Attlee, at 9 a.m. Australian time, on the 15th August, .1945, and by myself half an hour later. On the date of the acceptance of the Japanese reply - the 14th August, 1945 - the United States of America President instructed United States of America commanders in the Pacific and Western Pacific Areas to suspend offensive operations against the Japanese military and naval forces, insofar as was consistent with the safety of Allied forces in their areas. The Supreme Commander, South East Asia, was similarly instructed by the British Government. Throughout the war with Japan, the Australian Government has consistently claimed the part of a principal power in the Pacific and has made clear its wish to play a full and direct part in the settlement. Before the Japanese signified their willingness to end the war, we had sent a general statement of our views on the treatment of Japan. Particularly we considered that the Emperor and the whole imperial and militarist system and the economic dictatorship of a few great concerns must be discredited, and a complete reformation of Japan's internal structure brought about. Immediately we saw that the Japanese were trying to preserve the Emperor's position, with all it implies, we sent a strong expression of the view that no person or institution, not even the Emperor, should have immunity from responsibility for Japanese aggression and war crimes. We also made it clear that we were entitled to claim a full and direct voice in decisions regarding Japan's future and a due part in the execution of these decisions. Throughout this period, we were kept informed by the Dominions Office and by our Ministers in Washington, Moscow and Chungking. However, events frequently moved very fast, 'and there was no time for adequate consideration of Australian suggestions and proposals. even when these were received before the actual decisions had been made, which was not always the case. On the 18th August, 1945, when I announced the details of Australia's share in post-surrender arrangements, I stated the feeling of War Cabinet that Australia was acting as a principal Pacific power and that the Australian war effort, though inadequately recognized in the armistice negotiations, entitled us to a status in regard to the peace settlement commensurate with our substantial contribution to victory.We are hopeful that this will be fully recognized and given effect to in all steps leading to the peace settlement, especially in the Pacific. The Government has taken decisions with the object of ensuring that Australia shall play its proper part in the tasks arising from the Japanese capitulation, and contribute to the execution of the surrender terms against Japan. The military commitments which the Government has accepted are: - Participation in the occupation of Japan and Singapore. Occupation of key areas ofenemy held territories, within the areas for which we accept responsibility in order to secure effective control and to enforce the surrender and disarmament of the Japanese armed forces located in those areas; and The earliest release of our prisoners of war and internees. In view of Australia's position as a principal Pacific power and the share which we have had in the operations against the Japanese, the Government has decided to make available an Australian force to participate in the occupation of Japan itself. It is proposed that a composite force, comprising units of the Royal Australian Navy, Australian Army, and Royal Australian Air Force, shall be made available for this purpose. The composition of the force will be: - Navy. - Two cruisers and two destroyers. Initially the cruisers will be H.M.A.S. Shropshire andHobart and the destroyers Warramunga and Bataan. These ships will be additional to any ships attached to the British Pacific Fleet forming part of the occupation forces. Army. - Two brigade groups and necessary ancillary units, totalling approximately 10,000 men, who will be volunteers for this duty. Air Force. - Three Mustang fighter squadrons. It has been made clear to the British Government that this contribution is being made by Australia as a separate belligerent of Japan, and that our force will operate under an Australian commander, who will be responsible only to the Supreme Allied Commander. In this respect, the composite Australian force will, therefore, have the same status as the occupation forces being supplied by the United States, Britain, China and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. In view of the part played by the 8th Division of the Australian Imperial Force and the Australian naval and air forces in Malaya, and our great concern for the early liberation of our prisoners of war, the Government has decided to make available an Australian paratroop battalion to participate in the reoccupation of Malaya. Arrangements have been made to fly this battalion in to Singapore as soon as landing facilities are available there. In the meantime, the personnel of the battalion is being; flown in Royal Australian Air Force aircraft to a forward staging base as close as possible to Singapore. As soon as the Instrument of: Surrender is signed by Japan, the. South-West Pacific Area, south of the Philippines, will pass to the South-East Asia and Australian commands. The division of responsibility for this area between the British and Commonwealth Governments is still the subject of discussion. We have, however, agreed to accept initial responsibility for Borneo, where Australian forces are now located, and for certain Japanese-occupied territories to the east thereof, including Timor and Ambon where Australian forces operated in the early stages of the war against Japan. The re-occupation of these territories will be undertaken in stages, details of which are now being worked out. Considerable additional shipping will be necessary and the British Government has been informed of the requirements. The precise extent of our responsibilities will be announced upon completion, of the present discussions with the'. British authorities. There are" limits to our capacity to accept additional responsibilities, and it is- the Government's aim to ensure that releases of long-service personnel already directed shall be effected and that demobilization of the forces shall1 proceed in accordance' with the approved plam as rapidly as personnel can be absorbed into civil life. It is the intention of the- British Government to: make available-,, as soon as possible, British and Dutch forces from the South-East Asia Command to, relieve Australian forces' in the territories for which we assume initial responsibility. The general principle: adopted) by the Government in regard! to civil affairs i* that,, except- in Papua and Australian mandated territories^ Australia shall refrain from any extension of its present responsibilities for civil affairs- in re occupied territories. Such responsibility as is1- accepted initially during the military phase, will pass, to the South-East Asia Command simultaneously with the relief of the Australian command in the Respective areas. We look to governments having sovereign rights- in these areas to take, over full responsibility for them after the initial period'. In view of Australia's- special interest in Nauru and Ocean Islands, which are our main sources of supply of phosphate rock, we have offered to provide Australian Navy and Army forces to accept the surrender of the Japanese in these islands and to re-occupy them. We will, of course, retain full responsibility for Papua and the Australian mandated territories. Since there will be many matters which will need local consultation in connexion with the extension of the present sphere of: Australian responsibility, it has been agreed to exchange liaison missions between the Australian services and the South-East Asia Command. Admiral Mount'batten's mission, of which Major.General D. Harrison is the leader, arrived in Australia a few days ago and had discussions with members of the Australian mission before the departure of the latter by air for Ceylon. The Australian mission, is-, composed of a senior officer of each of the services and appropriate, staffs. The. South-East Asia mission has already exchanged views with the Chiefs of Staff and responsible Australian staff officers in connexion- with the respective areas of' responsibility of the two commands, arrangements' for the collection: and disposal of Australian prisoners of. war and internees, and various, service matters- of mutual interest. The; Commonwealth Government has emphasized to. the. British Government the- importance which it 'attaches to, the early and safe return of Australian prisoners of war in Japan and Japaneseoccupied territory, and- it has asked that the highest priority be accorded to. their movement in every respect, including sea, land and air transport. The British Government is in full agreement with these views, and measures are being taken to. achieve those objectives. In the discussions with the South-East Asia mission, first consideration i$ being given t.-) the arrangements, for the recovery pf prisoners of Aya.r. In connexion with Australia's representation at. participation in the signature, of the, Japanese surrender, the original proposal was that the Supreme Commander should sign for the four Allied Powers, and that those Powers sho.Uld be represented at the signature and endorse the Supreme Commander's signature. After representations in London and Washington, however, Australia is to be accorded direct representation at the surrender, and General Sir Thomas Blarney has informed the Government that General MacArthur has been advised by the American State Department that Australia and other countries directly concerned in the war against Japan will sign the Surrender Instrument in the same way as the representatives of the four great Powers. The Australian representation was at first limited to General Blarney. When the signing of the surrender was deferred, the Government decided that the other services be represented. The Australian delegation now consists of General Blarney, representing the Government; the Acting Chief of the Naval Staff, Rear-Admiral G. D. Moore; the Commodore commanding His Majesty's Australian Squadron, Commodore J. A- Collins; Major-General F. H. Berryman; the Chief of the Air Staff, Air Vice-Marshal G. Jones; and the Air Officer Commanding the Royal Australian Air Force Command, Air Vice-Marshal W. D. Bostock. Arrangements have been made for the presence of Australian naval forces at Tokyo at the time of the surrender ceremony. His Majesty's Australian Squadron, consisting of two cruisers, Shropshire and Hobart, and two destroyers, Bataan and Warramunga, was instructed to proceed to Tokyo Bay to arrive there before the signing ceremony which will take place on the 2nd September, 194f>. In addition, two Australian destroyers now attached to the British Pacific Fleet will form part of the British naval forces which will be present at Tokyo during the signing of the surrender. The Government felt that it would be of great historical value to obtain for our archives a first-hand report of the actual ceremony. General MacArthur agreed to our proposal, and Captain J. Balfour, of the Australian Army Historical Records Section, will represent the Historical Records Sections of the Australian fighting services at the capitulation ceremony at Tokyo. With regard to Australian participation in the surrender of the Japanese forces in the South-East Asia Area, thu Australian Government was informed by the British Government that President. Truman had informed the British Prime Minister that it was contemplated that General MacArthur would direct the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters to have Japanese forces in the SouthEast Asia Area surrender unconditionally to Admiral Mountbatten or his subordinate commanders. The Australian Government informed the British Government that it considered that, in view of the part played by our 8th Division in Malaya. Australia should be represented nt the surrender of the Japanese forces to Admiral Mountbatten. This was agreed to. and we nominated AirViceM'arshal A. T. Cole, Brigadier J. Rogers and Acting Captain A. E. Buchanan, of the Royal Australian Navy, as representatives of the three services. All practicable steps have also been taken to ensure that at least a portion of the para- troop battalion, which is to participate in the re-occupation of Singapore, will be present at the surrender ceremony at the base. I lay on the table the following paper : - The War - Surrender of Japan - Ministerial Statement. and move - That the paper be printed. Debate (on motion by Mr. Menzies) adjourned. 4960 4960 A48 Macquarie ALP Prime Minister and Treasurer 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY . - by leave - I feel that the references that I have made on this historic occasion would not be complete if I did not recall the great leaders who brought exceptional ability and devotion to the cause of the United Nations. Particularly, do we think of Mr. Churchill and his deputy, Mr. Attlee, who led the United Kingdom throughout the darkest days into the strong light of victory. We think of the late President Roosevelt, who gave his all, and of his able .successor. President Truman. We are thankful that the other nations were led by nien who were able to find a common ground upon which to work for the salvation of freedom. At this moment, my thoughts turn to another great man who gave everything he had. Australia's own leader, the late John Curtin. 4960 N76 Kooyong Leader of the Opposition 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES . - by leave - The references which have fallen from the lips of the Prime Minister will find an echo in the mind of everybody. Although no formal motion is before us, I should not like this occasion to pass without speaking on the subject on behalf of the Opposition. In the case of the late Prime Minister of Australia (Mr. Curtin), and the late President of the United States of America, President Roosevelt, the House, for very sad reasons, 'has had recent opportunity to express its views of their leadership and its appreciation of everything that they did. In the case of Winston Churchill, we have now, I believe, the opportunity of saying something which will represent the views of all parties in this Parliament. Recent political events in Great Britain mayhave tended to obscure our view of Winston Churchill, the great war leader, because in some degree we have thought of him within recent weeks as a political party leader. But the truth is - and we have not to look very far back to recall it - that were we to select one man in the world as the chief architect of victory, we would select Churchill. 4961 KJQ 0 0 JAMES, Rowland Mr James - The right honorable gentleman is now introducing party politics. 4961 N76 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - There is nothing of party politics about my remarks; they far transcend such considerations. I hope that I am addressing myself to the real depths of every human mind and imagination in this matter. If ever in human history one man, by undaunted courage, matchless moral force, and unsurpassed eloquence, altered the whole course of history, it was Churchill. I believe that he has, and will continue to have, the love and gratitude of every good Australian now living an this country, or to live in it in centuries to come. 4961 F4T Darling Downs 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr FADDEN - by leave - During the last sessional period, I asked the Prime Minister (Mr. Chifley) to agree to the suspension of the Standing Orders in order that the House might consider, before it rose for a short recess, a motion that I had placed on the notice-paper in these terms - That this House places on proud, grateful and perpetual record its admiration for the outstanding leadership, inspired courage and dogged tenacity by which the Right Honorable Winston Spencer Churchill brought the peoples of the British Commonwealth of Nations out of the abyss of 1940, through the perils and tribulations of 1941 and 1942, to the victories of 1943 and 1944 and the complete and glorious European triumph of 1945. On two occasions during the present year, this Parliament has paid the highest honour to war-time leaders of allied democracies who, by reason of death, had not been permitted to witness the complete fulfilment of tasks to which they had devoted all their powers. I refer to the late PresidentRoosevelt, and the late Prime Minister of Australia, John Curtin. In the records of this House there will remain forever proof of the views which we, the 1945 representatives of the people of Australia, hold in regard to Franklin D. Roosevelt and John Curtin. Not death, but a democratic political event which might not have been possible but for his own labours, removed from the direction of what remained of the war, a third great leader whose words and actions throughout the bitterest years in human history sustained and inspired us all. The convention is admirable that the Parliament of one unit of the British Commonwealth shall not attempt to influence the domestic affairs of another. What I am now saying must not be taken as a reflection upon the democratically reached decision of the electors of the United Kingdom. When I endeavoured to have my motion considered, the Prime Minister, unfortunately, accused me of introducing party politics. The proof to the contrary is self-evident, because I was referring to the leader of a national government in the United Kingdom, with whom had been associated the present Labour Prime Minister of that country. I regard it as my duty to pay tribute to the services that were rendered to the British Empire, and, indeed, to civilization, by the Right Honorable Winston Churchill. I was very pleased to note that the Prime Minister of New Zealand had in generous terms made such an acknowledgment. Indeed, even Mr. Attlee has referred to his predecessor as one of the architects of victory and peace. I hope that opportunity will be afforded to place on record the sentiments that are expressed in the motion of which I have given notice. Meanwhile, I associate myself with the statements of the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies). 4961 miscellaneous 4961 4961 A48 Macquarie ALP Prime Minister and Treasurer 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - by leave - I inform the House that advice has been received that the Council of Foreign Ministers, established as the result of the Potsdam Conference, will meet in London in September. The British Prime Minister, Mr. Attlee, has invited me to nominate a special representative able to speak with authority on matters affecting the preparations for, and the actual terms of, peace in Europe and in the Pacific. I have designated the Minister for External Affairs (Dr. Evatt) to undertake this, important mission, on behalf of Australia. 4962 miscellaneous 4962 A48 Macquarie ALP Prime Minister and Treasurer 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY ;: - by leave - I inform the House that, during the period that the Minister for External Affairs will be in London, the extended term of the Australian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, Mr. Bruce, will expire, and that Dr. Evatt Has agreed to perform the duties of High Commissioner during his. stay. When {he Minister for External Affairs has completed his work in London, the Minister for Defence, Mr. Beasley, will proceed to London as Resident Minister for a short period. During his long term of office, Mr . Bruce has served several governments with great distinction, and I offer to him the thanks of the Australian Government and people for the great services he has rendered. 4962 miscellaneous 4962 4962 KCF Corio ALP Minister for Post-war Reconstruction and Minister in charge of the Council for 'Scientific and Industrial Research 1 0 DEDMAN, John Mr DEDMAN . - by leave- - I propose to lay on the table of the. House a parliamentary paper in which is, outlined a plan for general demobilization. Demobilization is- to begin to operate as. soon as defence requirements allow, but not later than the 1st October. The dramatic collapse of hostilities makes demobilization the immediate concern of the Forces and also of the civilian public, who will want to know precisely what the plan is and how it will work. Accordingly', the Government has taken the first opportunity to inform Parliament and the country. There seems to be in some quarters a notion that once fighting ceases demobilization is a simple matter of expeditious transportation to the discharge depots, the completion of a few settling up details, and then release. Fortunately, this idea is not very widespread. Members of the forces and the public seem to be aware that the demobilization of widely scattered forces is not just a simple clearing out* but on the. contray is. a complex procedure involving many steps; which must be, carried through in carefully ordered- stages- if confusion and delay are. not to> result. I know that the. great object- of the men and women of the forces is to come home- as soon as possible, and I want, them to know that the Government will do all that is humanly possible to assure them the earliest practicable release. Whilst the 1918-19 demobilization is not without its lessons', that experience has; only a limited, application to the details of the present plan- for demobilization because of new elements in the situation. We have at this time much larger forces to handle and they are differently, disposed both at home; and overseas; We have to recognize continuing responsibilities' in connexion with the enforcement of the Japanese surrender, and our contribution' to the forces of Occupation. We have to link the release of the personnel of the forces with the; transference- of scores of thousands, of workers from war to civil occupations. By the end of .September; the existing special release schemes; will be well advanced. Those remaining after' that date are to be incorporated as special classes under the general demobilization plan which will then come into operation. Under1 the plan, the discharges are likely to be comparatively light during October, but will mount throughout November until they are in full flow some time, after the turn of the year. Should numbers exceeding the normal discharge .target of 3,000 per day be available on occasions, provision has been made to increase the rate up to 4,500 a day for short, periods. Apart from defence, exigencies, the principal limiting factors in discharges will be transport and the need to afford members of the forces an adequate medical examination. All estimates of the rate of demobilization are; of course, subject to the condition that adequate transport facilities are available when required, and that the obligations of Australia fo-r the enforcement of the conditions of Japanese surrender do not have a retarding influence. Any system of release must appeal to all arms as fair between man and man. I think honorable members "will agree that the points system adopted by the Government achieves this aim. As explained in the parliamentary paper, a careful review was made of such factors as length of service, age, family responsibilities, individual wishes, physical condition, method of enlistment, nature and location of service, eligibility for training, availability of employment, and other occupational and compassionate grounds. Eventually this priority list was reduced to three - length of service, age, and family responsibilities. As I mentioned earlier, eligible members with prescribed operational and other long service are covered by the long service release decisions. The release of men required in. high priority industries in order to prepare employment for those still in the forces will also be accelerated. Similarly those accepted for key reconstruction training occupations will be released,, and accelerated discharges in other cases may be granted on compassionate grounds, but the number of exceptions will be kept to a minimum. Conversely the discharge of any man may be deferred where his service is vital to defence. Prisoners of war and members of the permanent forces are, of course, excluded from the operation of the priority system. Special arrangements have been made for the early release of prisoners of war. Another feature of the plan which I hope will commend itself to members is the provision for getting those listed for discharge into the speediest contact with their homes. While service arrangements are being completed for discharge, members will be released to their homes on leave wherever necessary until called back for final discharge. During this leave, their service pay will continue, and they will be at liberty to take any action they please in relation to employment or any other re-establishment matters; that is, they may take a job if they wish, informing the employer that they will be required to return to the dispersal centre for a few days for final release. Thus this period of leave will give members an opportunity to resume their familiar contacts in a home atmosphere and generally regain their civilian bearings. On final discharge each member will be assured of a minimum period of leave at service rates of pay, for 30 days in the case of those with more than six months' service, and fifteen days for those who have not completed six months. The parliamentary paper gives complete information for an understanding of the general features of the demobilization plan. If it be found necessary to amend it in the light of experience this will be done. I commend the plan to the House. I lay on the table the following paper : - Demobilization of the Australian Defence Forces, and move - That the paper be printed. Debate (on motion by Mr. Harbison) adjourned. 4963 JLL New England 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT -Will the Minister for Defence state approximately the number of men and women in the Australian Armed Services at present? 4963 JOM West Sydney ALP Minister for Defence 1 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - The following was the strength and distribution of the Australian Forces at the beginning of August, 1945 :- STRENGTH AND DISTRIBUTION BY MAJOR AREAS 4963 bill Assent to the following bills reported : - Commonwealth Bank Bill 1945. Banking Bill 1945. Superannuation Bill 1945. War Gratuity Bill 1945. Drought Relief Bill 1945. War Pensions Appropriation Dill 1940. Loan Bill 1945. Papua-New Guinea Provisional Administration Bill 1945. Special Annuity Bill 1945. Matrimonial Causes Bill 1945. Wine Overseas Marketing Bill 1945. Darwin Lands Acquisition Bill 1945. Science and Industry Research Bill 1945. Commonwealth Inscribed Stock Bill 1945. National Debt Sinking Fund Bill 1945. Life Insurance Bill 1945. Commonwealth Public Service Bill 1945. Superannuation Bill (No. 2) 1945. Australian National Airlines Bill 1945. 4964 Questions 4964 Oil From Coal: German Process - Rationing - Exchange Rates 4964 KRT 0 0 SMITH, Albert Mr SMITH - Will the Minister representing the Minister for Supply and Shipping inform the House whether the Government has considered the lifting of the restrictions on the sale of motor spirit in Australia? If it has considered the matter, has the Minister any statement to make regarding it? 4964 JOM ALP 1 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - At the instance of the Minister for Supply and Shipping, the Government discussed the matter at some length at the Cabinet meeting yesterday. The main purpose in the minds of Ministers was to give effect to the proposal mentioned in the honorable member's question. Unfortunately, within the last week or two, difficulties have arisen other than those usually associated with this matter, namely, those of obtaining tanker? and supplies. The principal difficulty confronting the Government at present is the question of dollar exchange and other problems which arise as the result of the decision of the United States of America to terminate the lend-lease agreement. These problems call for very serious consideration, not only by the Commonwealth Government but also by the Government of Great Britain. Before the Minister for Supply and Shipping can determine the course in regard to the lifting of the restrictions on the sale of petrol, it will be necessary for the Treasurer to solve the other problem to which I have referred. 4964 JUQ 0 0 CLARK, Joseph Mr CLARK - I ask the Minister for Supply and Shipping whether, in view of the dollar exchange and shipping difficulties relating to the securing of additional petrol supplies for Australia, he will make representations to the British authorities with the object of obtaining petrol under sterling exchange conditions? 4964 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - The problems connected with both the dollar and sterling exchange pools have been the subject of cablegrams which have passed between the United Kingdom authorities and the Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Customs during the last few days. I assure the honorable member that the Government is taking all possible steps to meet the situation. 4964 JWT 0 0 FRANCIS, Josiah Mr FRANCIS - It was stated in the Australian Broadcasting Commission new3 session on Monday evening that a British mission to Germany had examined a new process which had been evolved in that country for the extraction of oil from coal by means of which motor fuel could be produced as cheaply as 9d. a gallon. In view of the importance of oil to Australia, will the Prime Minister make representations to the Government, of the United Kingdom that Australia should 'share in the use of this process, seeing that its discovery was rendered possible only by the defeat of Germany in which all parts of the Empire played a part? Will he consider sending an officer of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research to Great Britain to examine the process with a view to its being made available to commercial interests in this country? 4964 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - Assuming that such a process has been discovered, and that information about it will be available to the United Kingdom and to other Allied nations, the Commonwealth Government will do everything possible to ensure that the knowledge shall also be made available to Australia. I shall discuss with the Minister for Post-War Reconstruction the honorable member's suggestion that an officer of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research should be sent overseas to inquire into the matter. 4964 Motion Motion (by Mr. Scullin) - by leave - agreed to - That leave of absence for one month be given to the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) on the ground of ill health. 4965 motion 4965 4965 F4U Capricornia ALP Minister for the Army 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE . - by leave - The Government has considered the publication of the names of recovered prisoners of war, and it has been decided that, in view of the cessation of hostilities, the restrictions which were imposed some considerable time ago may now be relaxed. Subject to the observance of any general procedure laid down by theatre commanders in their own spheres of responsibility, the Commonwealth Government has no objection to Australian newspapers publishing the names of recovered Australian prisoners of war. It is recognized that, the Commonwealth Government, through its service departments, is responsible for speedily informing next-of-kin of the good news of recovery of each individual, and that task will be faithfully performed. It should, however, be appreciated that, owing to the time necessarily taken in the despatch and handling of signals, and inmost carefully checking the identity of recovered personnel, official advices to next-of-kin will not be as fast as newspaper despatches. As the service machinery for handling the nominal rolls of thousands of recovered personnel will be heavily taxed, it will not be possible to check names published in newspapers either before transmission or before publication. Next-of-kin should, therefore, realize that only the official advice to them should be accepted as final. This relates essentially to the names of men actually recovered and in Allied hands. I ask that no newspaper or broadcast reference be made to the name of any member believed to be dead, missing or untraced. We have a deep obligation to the next-of-kin of such men, and owing to the wide dispersal of Australian prisoners of war and the attendant difficulties of tracing them, together with the risk of mistaken identity, it is imperative that all information regarding casualties be most carefully checked and issued officially to the next-of-kin before it is published. The following general statement regarding the recovery of Australian prisoners of war held by Japan has been prepared by my department: - RECOVERY OF AUSTRALIAN PRISONERS OF WAR HELD BY JAPAN. Under the directive issued by the Combined Chiefs of Staff, Washington, theatre commanders are responsible for the recovery, welfare, and repatriation of Allied prisoners of warand internees held by Japan. In addition, General MacArthur, in his capacity of Allied Supreme Commander negotiating Japan's surrender, requires the Japanese Government to ensure the wellbeing of Allied prisoners of war and internees until they are taken over by him, and, further, requires that the local delivery of supplies dropped for prisoners of war and internees be ensured by the Japanese. Such air droppings are now taking place in many areas. The Commonwealth Government has directed that recovered Australian prisoners of war and internees shall be returned to Australia at the earliest possible date by the most direct and expeditious route, and that air transport is to be employed to the greatest extent practicable. 4.Australian action connected with the recovery of Australian prisoners of war is beiing organized and co-ordinated by L.H.Q. It is intended at the earliest possible stagein the recovery process, to provide recovered Australians with uniforms, amenities, comforts, and entitlements as members of the Australian forces. It will be practicable to complete this task only where recovered personnel are concentrated under Australian Military Forces control for a period prior to repatriation, in other cases it maybe necessary to finalize these matterson the homeward journey or after disembarkation. Numbers andLocations of Australian Prisoners of War. Owing to the failure of the Japanese Government to advise the Commonwealth of the identity, locations, and transfers of Australian prisonersof war, it is impossible on present information to indicate with substantial accuracy where and in what numbers Australian prisoners of war will be recovered by the Allies. Official records of numbers and locations are based oninformation mainly two to three years old and are regarded as unreliable because the Japanese are reputed to have transferred unknown but largenumbers of prisoners of war from South- East Asia to Japan. A recent estimate from General MacArthur's Head-quarters placed the number of Australians in Japan at over 8,000. On that basis an estimate of the position is - Notes - The South-East Asia figure may be understated, in which case the figure for Japan will be overstated. There are also approximately 700 members posted as missing, believed prisoners of war, and 2,500 as missing. Some of these two categories will be recovered. Position in Japan and Areas Northof The Philippines. General MacArthur has arranged for extensive hospitals and camps to be prepared at Manila for the reception of recovered Allied prisoners of war and internees who will be evacuated there from Japan as speedily as possible, after receiving any necessary initial attention. To assist General Head-quarters, 3 Australian Prisoner-of-War Reception Group is being raised from Australian Military Forces in forward areas for duty in Manila. Under General Head-quarters' control, it will establish and administer camps for Australians who do not require hospitalization or who are convalescent. Provided that facilities permit, it is intended to evacuate as many as possible of the Australian hospital cases from Manila to an Australian hospital at Morotai. The Australianreception camps at Manila will be developed on the highest {practicable state of comfort even to the temporary detriment of the comfort and amenities of troops in forwardareas.Large quantities of stores and supplies are being sent to Manila from Morotai and the mainland. At Manila the Forward Echelon of Land Head-quarters has been established for some time. This head-quarters will maintain all necessary liaison with General Head-quarters. Position in South-East Asia. Prior to the surrender of Japan, arrangements were well in hand for the despatch of 2 Australian Prisoner-of-war Reception Group to India, where Australian prisoners of war liberated by Admiral Mountbatten during operations in Malaya and Singapore would have been transferred. The group was to have been located at Bangalore and would have comprised approximately 500 A.M.F., a 200-bed hospital, 4,000 to 5.000 tons of equipment, stores, and rations. It was anticipated that all recovered personnel would receive medical treatment at Singapore before movement to India. When Japan's surrender became imminent, immediate action was taken to alter the constitution of the groupby increasing the hospital from 200 to 600 beds, and by adding many elements to make the group much more self-contained. The number of Australian Military Forces personnel was increased from 500 to approximately 1,500. The stores, equipment, and rations were increased from 4,000 or 5,000 tons to 10,000 tons. All this was in anticipation of the group being diverted to Singapore and there perform a more active role than previously envisaged. When advice was received from Headquarters. South-East Asia, that the Australian group should proceed to Singapore and not to India, prompt action was taken to obtain the Duntroon and a large cargo vessel to convey the personnel, stores, and equipment. The commander and an advance party of the group head-quarters were flown to India. Arrangements were also made with the Royal Australian Air Force for a further advance party of medical, records, contact team, and Red Cross personnel with medical and other stores to be flown from Sydney direct to Singapore. Owing to anticipated limitations of port facilities at Singapore and the consequent difficulties that would arisein developing enough accommodation for all the Allied personnel expected to be recovered in Singapore, it is Admiral Mountbatten's plan to use his shipping resources for the prompt evacuation direct to Australia of all Australians fit to travel. The Duntroon will assist with this task on her return journey. Unfit Australians will he locally treated until transferred from Singapore by hospital ships. It was contemplated that the hospital ship Oranje (800 beds) would be used for this purpose, but on the 25th August, advice was received that this ship would not be available. Arrangements have since been made for the Australian hospital ship Manunda (400 beds) to be used instead to evacuate unfit personnel from Singapore to an Australian hospital at Labuan. This will speed up the turn-round of the ship. TheManunda will enter Singapore at the earliest possible date after the local surrender. No. 2 Australian Reception Group may arrive at Singapore after some recovered personnel have been embarked for Australia or for Labuan; but it is anticipated that there will still be a substantial task for the group in dealing with personnel still at Singapore or transferred there from other recovery areas. Admiral Mountbatten's plans for the transfer or concentration of Australians recovered in South-East Asia elsewhere than in Malaya will not be fully known until he has obtained further information as to their exact numbers, condition, and locations. It can be expected that he will arrange for the relief and recovery of prisoners of war in outlying parts of Burma, in Thailand, IndoChina, and elsewhere with the leastpossible delay.It is possible that for this task he may decide to use in part or in full the Australian group provided for Singapore, especially if he finds that he can adequately cope with the situation there and if there is an urgent need elsewhere for substantial resources to succour a large number of unfit Australians, for example, in Thailand. To maintain liaison with Admiral Mountbatten's Head-quarters an Australian mission has been despatched by air. A mission headed by Major-General Harrison has also arrived in Australia to act on behalf of Admiral Mountbatten. Both missions are giving the highest priority of attention to matters relating to recovery of prisoners of war and internees. Position inSouth-West Pacific Area (Australian Military Forces Area). Action has been takenby Advanced Land Head-quarters at Morotai to provide from 9 Australian Division resources, accommodationatLabuanfor Australians to be recovered in Western Borneo. Likewise at Morotai, I Australian Prisoner-of-war and Internee Reception Unit established several months ago will receive personnel recovered in Northern Borneo and in many islands of the Netherlands East Indies. Advanced Land Head-quarters has resources of personnel, hospitals, and stores for these tasks. accountingfor australian prisoners of War and Missing. Great importance is attached to the earliest possible accounting for all Australian prisoners of war and missing. In preparation for the present situation, Land Head-quarters several months ago had printed 200 sets of nominal rolls of prisoners of war and missing, and has now sent many of these sets forward to assist the identification and tracing of Australians. In addition, many officers, including a number specially trained,have been attached to Allied forces to act as contact and inquiry teams in areas where the prisoners of war will first be contacted. It is further intended at the earliest practicable stage to interrogate recovered personnel for information on Australian dead, missing, and untraced prisoners of war. Arrangements have been made for the speedy transmission to Land Head-quarters of nominal rolls of recovered personnel and of casualties. This information will be promptly conveyed asusual to next of kin. It will, however, be recognized that particulars of the thousands of personnel to be recovered will necessarily take time to compile and to transmit to Melbourne, although such messages will be handled with the greatest possible speed. The tracing and reburial of dead Australians will be undertaken by the Australian War Graves Services, units of which will operate in all areas. General As at the date of this report, appropriate Australian Military Forces resources have been organized for immediate movement or are already deployed in areas where recovered personnel will have to be handled. There are, however, many gaps in our knowledge of the numbers, condition, and locations of Australian prisoners of war and internees. As information comes to hand and as new situations develop, action on the highest priority will be taken to deal with them,or,if appropriate, to assist theatre commanders. Next of kin should be urged to refrain at this stagefrom making inquiries about the recovery or fate of individual prisoners of war. Public anxiety is fully appreciated and understood, but individual inquiries will merely congest the channels through which information has to flow to next of kin and will occupy the time of officers whose sole attention should be directed to the handling of incoming information. Next of kin can be assured that service staffs will spare no effort to convey news promptly after its receipt, that recovered personnel will be given opportunities as early as practicable to cable and to write and that next of kin will, wherever possible, be given an address to which they can write to a recovered member. The objective of all is to reunite recovered Australians with their families as soon as it is possible to do so. Later: 4967 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - I ask the Minister for the Army whether former Australian prisoners of war released in the SouthWest Pacific Area are prohibited from being interviewed by Australian press correspondents? Is it not a fact that released prisoners of other nations are not prohibited from giving interviews to their press correspondents? Can the Minister state the reasons for this discrimination? Are letters from servicemen to Australia still subject to censorship and, if so, for what reasons? 4967 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - I dealt with the matter of press interviews fully in a statement earlier to-day. It was brought to my notice last night by representatives of the press. I communicated with the Chief of the General Staff and found that Defence Head-quarters had been conforming to an old general routine order issued- 4967 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr Abbott - During the war? 4967 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - Yes, a considerable time ago, in regard to war correspondents interviewing prisoners of war. A solution, which, I understand, is entirely satisfactory to the Australian press, has been arrived at. I think censorship can be removed in all cases with the exceptions that. I outlined in my earlier statement. I understand that those exceptions have been agreed to by the press executives who were consulted before the recommendations were put before me. 4967 JWT 0 0 FRANCIS, Josiah Mr Francis - Is the correspondence of soldiers still subject to censorship? 4967 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - I shall have that looked into. I was not aware that censorship was continuing. 4968 Questions 4968 4968 KEU 0 0 FALSTEIN, Sydney Mr FALSTEIN - Will the Prime Minister say what steps have been taken to disband the Advisory War Council? 4968 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - No steps have been taken to disband it. 4968 Releases - Motor Tyres - Leave Without Pay - Inventions Directorate Personnel for Japan - Detention Camps 4968 K6Q 0 0 CORSER, Bernard Mr BERNARD CORSER - While it is agreed that the mass release of any particular class of service personnel might throw many men into temporary unemployment, I ask the Minister for the Army to arrange for the earliest possible release of those for whom employment is waiting, and whose discharge has been applied for, including the sons and employees of primary producers, who are urgently needed for vital food production, and especially those whose release has been already approved by the man-power authorities, but rejected by the Army as they were claimed to bo in operational categories? Will the Minister also arrange for the early release of motor tyres from the admittedly large stocks no longer required by the Army, seeing that tyres are urgently needed by people living in the country? 4968 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - The honorable member's representations will be fully considered, but I remind him that it would be most unfair to overlook the claims of those men who have served four and a half and five years. It would not be right to keep them in unhealthy tropical islands while discharging others who have had comparatively short terms of service. 4968 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr Harrison - But they are not being discharged. 4968 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - The honorable member is not up to date if he does not know that long service men are now being steadily released. Under the demobilization scheme outlined by the Minister for Postwar Reconstruction, the Government is pledged to give equitable treatment to all servicemen awaiting discharge. The claims of various industries are being taken into account in this regard. I shall take up with my colleague, the Minister for Supply and Shipping, the honorable member's proposal that motor tyres should be released from Army stocks. I can assure the honorable member that the Army authorities are cooperating with the Commonwealth Disposals Commission in order to make available as many tyres as possible for the relief of those who have been waiting for them so long. 4968 JS9 0 0 BREEN, John Mr BREEN - Will the Minister for the Army instruct the officers in charge of Lines of Communications to extend leave without pay to those soldiers who are eligible for early release under the Government's scheme in order to enable such soldiers to engage in seasonal work or work of urgent importance rather than that they be returned to their units in New Guinea? 4968 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - I shall give consideration to the representations made by the honorable member. It is true that a number of soldiers are at present on leave from New Guinea, the Solomons, Morotai and Borneo. This morning I discussed this matter with the Chief of the General Staff, General Northcote, and a definite decision has been made that with the exception of key men, all soldiers from the islands now on leave in Australia will not be sent back to the islands, but will be discharged. 4968 C7E 0 0 PAGE, Earle Sir EARLE PAGE - I ask the Minister for Defence whether it would be possible to include in the occupation forces to be sent to Japan scientific and technical personnel with experience in the Army Inventions Directorate in order to investigate inventions that may have been developed in Japan during the war? I understand that the Allied occupation forces in Germany include large numbers of scientists and technical men who are gathering information for Great Britain and America regarding German inventions and research. 4968 JOM ALP 1 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - The right honorable gentleman may be aware that at the present time, at the premises of the Sydney County Council, there is a display showing the great advances made in tropic proofing by the inventions section of the Army to which the right honorable member for Cowper has referred. It has done a remarkable job, and I was amazed when I heard the lecture on the success of its work. Therefore, I regard the suggestion made by the right honorable member as being most valuable, and shall take it up with the Defence Committee for the purpose of seeing whether some arrangements can be made to meet his suggestion. 4969 K0K 0 0 CONELAN, William Mr CONELAN - Some time ago, the Minister for the Army appointed a committee to investigate Army detention camps. On that committee, he placed a member of the Returned Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen's Imperial League of Australia. As thousands of men in the fighting services are not eligible to join that organization, will the Minister appoint to the committee a representative of the League of Ex-Service Men and Women to look after the interests of its' members? 4969 F4U 0 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - Following the decision to appoint the committee to which the honorable member has referred, Mr Justice Reed was appointed chairman. The Senior Chaplain-General, the Reverend T. C. Rentoul, was also appointed to the committee, and Sir Gilbert Dyett was asked to nominate a returned soldier to represent the Returned Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen's Imperial League of Australia. He did so, and Mr. Bidstrup, a barrister and solicitor of Melbourne and also a returned soldier of the present war, was appointed. The committee has been functioning satisfactorily for some time, and in view of the cessation of hostilities and of the present stage of the inquiry, I consider that it is now too late to add to the committee. 4969 4969 JYV 0 0 FULLER, Arthur Mr FULLER - Will the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs cause an immediate investigation to be made of the stocks of made-up clothing and materials for manufacture into clothing held by the Division of Import Procurement? Should it be found that as the result of the termination of the war in the Pacific, such stocks are in excess of requirements, will the Minister examine the position with the view to eliminating, or casing, the system of rationing in respect of such items? 4969 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - The answer to both parts of the honorable member's question is "Yes". 4969 4969 KV7 0 0 STEWART, Frederick Sir FREDERICK STEWART - I direct a question to the Prime Minister in relation to the official announcement of the Government's intention to institute a system of cash relief during the transition period between the termination of the employment of workers in war industries and their re-absorption in civil life. Can the right honorable gentleman say whether the relief will apply to all types of employment? If it is to be confined to persons discharged from war industries, is not that an admission that the benefits under the Re-establishment and Employment Act arc inadequate? As the official statement refers to the inclusion of a works and income test, can he say whether this is to be taken as an indication that the means test section of the legislation referred to will be extended in its entirety to this new arrangement? 4969 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - The system will apply to all persons temporarily out of employment, whether or not they are now engaged in government factories. The assistance is to cover the transition period between one form of employment and another. Such matters as the location of the individual will be taken into account. It is not admitted that the benefits under the Re-establishment and Employment Act, which, although not all that the Government desires, are far in excess of anything provided by previous governments, are inadequate. The means test provisions of that legislation will apply in these cases also. 4969 4969 JWR 0 0 CHAMBERS, Cyril Mr CHAMBERS - Will the Prime Minister confer with the State governments with a view to granting special leave to men and women who have been subjected to extra strain during the war years and have not received any increases of wages? 4969 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - What the State governments may do in this matter is entirely within their own jurisdiction, unless the Commonwealth Government issues a National Security Regulation to deal with it. That, I think, would not be desirable; it is best that the matter be left to the judgment of the State authorities. I shall, however, inquire from the State governments their attitude towards this and associated matters. 4970 4970 F4T 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr FADDEN - In view of the fact that eleven -weeks have elapsed since the report of the Auditor-General for 1943-44, which contains severe criticism of certain 'Commonwealth departments, was submitted to this House, and as we shall soon be called upon to consider the budget, will the Prime Minister indicate when it is expected that printed copies of the report will be available to honorable members. Further, has the right honorable gentleman yet reached a decision regarding the suggestion which I made ten weeks ago, that a panel of independent practising accountants should be appointed to investigate and report upon ways to remedy the unsatisfactory state of affairs disclosed in tie Auditor-General's report? Some of the instances mentioned date back as far as 1941. 4970 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - I regret that I am not able to indicate the stage that has been reached in connexion with the printing of the Auditor-General's report. Great difficulties have been experienced in connexion with printing. I shall, however, make inquiries, and try to let the honorable member know how soon printed copies of the report will be available to honorable members. I shall endeavour to expedite the work. I cannot say that consideration has been given by the Government to the appointment of a panel of independent practising accountants as suggested by the right honorable member. My reaction to the suggestion at the time it was made was against the appointment of outside practising accountants to deal with this matter. Criticism by the Auditor-General is not something new; previous Auditor-Generals have made similar and even more critical reports. I do not complain about that, nor do I say that their comments were not justified. The Auditor-General has been appointed to report frankly to the Parliament on matters which come within his jurisdiction. At this stage the reply to the right honorable gentleman is that it is not pro posed tto .appoint -outside accountants as suggested by him. In this Howse there are '.several honorable members, including the fight honorable gentleman himself, who are capable of giving advice in these matters. 4970 F4T 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr Fadden - Unfortunately, Tittle notice is taken of us. 4970 A48 0 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - I think that government accounts may safely be left in the hands of the Auditor-General. If members wish to comment on his report, or to criticize the Administration, they are at liberty to do so 4970 4970 L1A 0 0 WILLIAMS, Thomas Mr WILLIAMS - With a view to the creation of stability in the poultry industry, and the securing of better returns to producers, will the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture order an investigation of the poultry industry, particularly with regard to the difference between the prices received by producers of eggs and the prices paid by consumers? 4970 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - The ruling wholesale price for first quality hen eggs is ls. 7d. per dozen. This is the minimum wholesale ceiling price for the season. This price has been held during the peak period of production and since the commencement of Commonwealth control in July, 1943. It is a record minimum price. The Egg Control has been able to maintain the wholesale price at 2s. per dozen for approximately eight months of the year for the past two seasons. The price to consumers is ls. lOd. per dozen. The difference of 3d. per dozen has been fixed by the Prices Commissioner as the retailer's margin of profit. The producer gets ls. 7d. per dozen, less 2¾d. which amount is made up as under - The charges to the producer are on the same basis as the charges made by State Egg Marketing organizations prior to the introduction of Commonwealth control. The honorable member's representations will be taken fully into consideration. 4971 4971 KFW 0 0 GUY, James Allan Mr GUY - Having regard to the isolation of Tasmania, which is dependent on aircraft and a most inadequate shipping service for the conveyance of passengers to and from the mainland, will the Minister representing the Minister for Supply and Shipping use his best endeavours, now that hostilities have ceased, to have the Taroona reinstated in its former service? 4971 JOM ALP 1 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - I appreciate the honorable member's desire in this matter, but, unfortunately, the shipping position is still most difficult, due chiefly to the large number of ships needed for the occupation of Japan, Nauru and Ocean Islands, and the repatriation of Australian service personnel. I shall, however, take all steps possible to see that the Tasmanian service is improved. 4971 Staff Dismissals 4971 JVA 0 0 MORGAN, Charles Mr MORGAN - Is the Minister for Aircraft Production aware that on Friday several hundred women employed at the aircraft factory at Chullora were lined up by the management, that many of them were given peremptory notice of dismissal, and that the rest were notified that they would soon be dismissed? This occurred despite the Minister's assurance both orally and in correspondence, even the day before the dismissals were effected, that the dismissals would be progressive until the end of the year. I understand that the action was taken without the Minister's authority or knowledge. Will the Minister line up those responsible for this callous action, which I am sure would not have been taken with his authority, and ask for an explanation? In the event of a satisfactory explanation not being given, will he subject them to the same peremptory dismissal? In regard to projects that cannot be kept going, in the absence of immediate plans for a change over to peace-time production, will the Minister consider giving the workers a reasonable holiday on full pay in return for their services during the war? 4971 KLL ALP 1 0 MAKIN, Norman Mr MAKIN - The first matter raised by the honorable gentleman is being examined. The second is a matter for the Government, not me, to determine. 4971 4971 JLZ 0 0 ANTHONY, Hubert Mr ANTHONY - In view of the potentialities of the. atomic bomb and its bearing upon the future defence of Australia, will the Prime Minister consider sending to Japan appropriate Australian scientists, in order that they may examine the results of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the effect upon the civilian population that survived? They may then be able to recommend to the Government protective measures against atomic, bombs. 4971 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - At the moment I am unable to see what good purpose would be served by sending officers on that mission, but I promise to examine whether such action would be warranted. 4971 Payment of Female Employees 4971 KRE 0 0 SHEEHAN, Thomas Mr SHEEHAN - Is the Minister for Labour and National Service yet able to say whether finality has been reached in regard to the payment of female workers at the Crown Crystal Glass Works, Waterloo, Sydney? 4971 KHL ALP 1 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY - As the honorable gentleman knows, the case was heard by Judge Foster. He gave a decision as to the rates payable to females employed in the affected sections of the works. The firm appealed against the decision to the High Court which came to the decision that as it involved interpretation of the regulations, it would be dealt with better if Judge Foster stated a case. Mr. Barwick, K.C., on behalf of the Commonwealth Government, asked Judge Foster to state a case. The judge has done so. The case was to have been heard on the 16th August, but the Victory holidays upset the High Court's sittings. The High Court will soon give a final decision, perhaps to-day. 4971 Miscellaneous 4971 A48 Macquarie ALP Prime Minister and Treasurer 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY . - During the absence abroad of Senator Fraser on government business connected with the meeting of the International Labour Organization, Senator Keane will act as Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services. 4972 Questions 4972 Ex-service Members 4972 K0K 0 0 CONELAN, William Mr CONELAN - In view of the statement made at Fremantle on the 13th August last by the Leader of the Opposition, as reported in the West Australian on the 15th August, 1945, to the effect that if the Liberal candidate, Mr. Cleland, were elected at the recent Fremantle by-election he would be the first returned soldier of this war to enter the Federal Parliament, will the Prime Minister say whether there were any, and if so, how many, returned servicemen from this war serving in this Parliament at the time when the Leader of the Opposition made that statement? 4972 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY -I have read the newspaper report to which the honorable member has referred. Amongmembers of the ministerial party the honorable member for Watson (Mr. Falstein) and the honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Chambers) are ex-servicemen of this war. One or two honorable members of the Opposition may come within the same category, but I am not sure. 4972 4972 JLR 0 0 ADERMANN, Charles Mr ADERMANN - Has the Prime Minister read a statement by the Minister for Public Works in Queensland, Mr. H. A. Bruce, that no local government authority should be asked to bear the cost of repairing roads that were damaged by army vehicles used in the defence of the whole of Australia? ' If so, will the Prime Minister consider making available, either through the States or direct to local government authorities, financial assistance to enable them to repair roads damaged by army vehicles, or communicating with the States with a view to arranging that the Commonwealth and State Governments shall share this cost? 4972 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - In somecases assistance has been given by the Commonwealth Government for the repair and maintenance of roads.I have personal knowledge of that apart from my positionas Treasurer. In addition, many defence roads which are normally used for civilian purposeshave been greatly improved at the expense of the Commonwealth Government. At the Premiers Conference last week it was admitted that the Commonwealth Government had given assistance in many cases of the kind mentioned by the honorable member. I point out to him that the defence vehicles which used the roads to which he refers were engagedin the defence of the nation as a whole, including the particular areas in question. The honorable member has asked whether I am prepared to make arrangements for the Commonwealth and State Governments to share the cost of repairing these roads. I receive sufficient requests for financial assistance without proposing such requests myself, and generally the amount sought is in excess of the amount that might be justifiably requested. I shall give due consideration to all claims made to the Treasury by local government authorities in Queensland for the purpose mentioned by the honorable member. 4972 JLR 0 0 ADERMANN, Charles Mr Adermann - All requests so far made by such bodies have been refused. 4972 A48 0 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - I shall make further inquiries with respectto applications which have been made. 4972 Transport of Airmen's Families - Randwick Military Hospital 4972 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - I ask the Minister for Repatriation what factors have operated to prevent wives and children of Royal Australian Air Force personnel from returning to Australia with their husbands? Is it a fact that the Air Ministry in London acceded to a request by the Australian Government that this should be the method of repatriation, and that officials at Australia House have not co-operated to this end? Will the Minister take appropriate action to see, first, that in future families accompany service personnel returned from England; and, secondly, that further urgent steps be taken to bring to Australia the families of servicemen at present stranded in England? 4972 JXL ALP 1 0 FROST, Charles Mr FROST - Many wives of soldiers who were married in England in the early stages of the war have been separated from their husbands for over five years. We are giving priority to them, having regard to the shipping available for their transport to Australia. Many airmen who are now due to return to Australia and who married in England have had the company of their wives for a considerable time, in many cases for the full period since they married. We do not wish to separate any couples, but we cannot give preference to wives in the latter category over those who have been separated for so long from their husbands. However, we are now able to provide transport for -increasing numbers of wives, and this week 150 wives with their families are leaving England for Ausitralia. I have just received advice to that effect by cablegram. It is the object of the Government to repatriate all wives of service personnel as speedily as possible. 4973 KV7 0 0 STEWART, Frederick Sir FREDERICK STEWART - Some time ago, I made representations to the Minister for Repatriation concerning the inadequate establishment of medical officers at the Randwick Military Hospital, and also the lack of privacy afforded to ex-servicemen interviewing medical officers. Recently, stronger representations have been made to me by ex-servicemen's organizations, indicating that no improvement has been effected. Is the Minister for Repatriation in a position to give any information regarding any action or contemplated action by his department in this regard? 4973 JXL 0 0 FROST, Charles Mr FROST - Everything that could be done in regard to the improvement of conditions at the Randwick Military Hospital has been done. The institution has been acutely short-staffed, but now that hostilities have ceased, it is hoped that this position will be improved considerably in the near future. Many wards have been closed owing to the scarcity of nurses and other attendants, but, in the circumstances, everything possible has been done for the patients, and the efforts of the department have been appreciated, not only by patients, but also by the general public. Inconveniences which have been caused in the past cannot be blamed upon the staff, which has been overworked for a long time. 4973 4973 JWR 0 0 CHAMBERS, Cyril Mr CHAMBERS - Can the Minister for Labour and National Service indicate when the court's decision can be expected with reference to the rates and conditions of hospital and asylum employees? I understand that this application was submitted to the court some months ago. 4973 KHL ALP 1 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY - That reference was submitted by me to the court a little over two months ago. Judge Kelly of South Australia commenced the hearing of the case on the 1st August, but as the parties were not fully prepared the hearing was adjourned until the 5th of September, when it is expected that it will proceed without interruption. 4973 Annual Leave 4973 6V4 0 0 DALY, Fred Mr DALY - Is the Minister for Labour and National Service in a position to inform honorable members what stage has been reached towards granting fourteen days' annual leave to workers not covered b" the New South Wales act, which includes all workers in that State with the exception of those working under Commonwealth awards? 4973 KHL ALP 1 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr HOLLOWAY - Since the New South Wales act came into operation two or three months ago, claims before the Commonwealth Arbitration Court relating to annual leave have naturally become more complicated. Some time ago, the Metal Trades Federation cited cases before Judge O'Mara, who asked both parties to submit all the evidence, for and against. I think that His Honour desires to try to obviate this anomalous situation, in which people in New South Wales, working under Commonwealth awards, are placed on a different basis from those working under the State award. Judge O'Mara heard evidence at length from both parties, and eventually decided to submit the case to the Full Bench. Their Honours are now ready to hear the claim, and I am hopeful, although I do not know, that the decision will then automatically apply to all the awards of the court. 4973 4973 JWT 0 0 FRANCIS, Josiah Mr FRANCIS - Now that the war has ended, and security reasons which necessitated its earlier treatment as a confidential document no longer operate, will the Prime Minister lay on the table of the House the report of Mr. Justice Lowe, the commissioner who inquired into the circumstances of the first Japanese attack on Darwin in 1942? 4974 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - I shall consider the request. At the moment, I cannot imagine any security reasons to prevent .my laying the report on the table of the House, but I should like to examine the matter more fully. 4974 Premises in Phillip-street, Sydney 4974 KEU 0 0 FALSTEIN, Sydney Mr FALSTEIN - At present, some government departments are occupying premises in Phillip-street, Sydney, which were formerly the chambers of members of the New South Wales Bar prior to their enlistment. Will the Prime Minister discuss with the Ministers concerned the advisability of the departments vacating the premises in favour of barristers who, on demobilization, desire to resume their legal practice? 4974 JOM ALP 1 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - Office accommodation in Sydney is one of our difficulties, and recently the Government appointed a small sub-committee of Cabinet to examine the matter. 4974 K0K 0 0 CONELAN, William Mr Conelan - Is the problem acute only in Sydney, or is it serious everywhere? 4974 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - We have found that it is more difficult in Sydney than in other capital cities. 4974 KEU 0 0 FALSTEIN, Sydney Mr Falstein - The buildings in Phillip-street are the only places in which these barristers can conveniently practise. 4974 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - During the last three weeks, I have had the assistance of a special officer of the Department of the Interior in dealing with the general problem, and we hope that the reduced tempo of the war effort will result in the making of accommodation available for civilian requirements and thus enable us to meet many demands for accommodation. The point raised by the honorable member for Watson was brought to my notice a few months ago when I was Acting Attorney-General. I discussed it then with the Solicitor-General, who agreed that the premises in Phillip-street, which are now occupied by Commonwealth departments, should again be made available to the legal profession. I shall pursue the matter further for the purpose of seeing whether we can adjust it without delay. 4974 4974 K6Q 0 0 CORSER, Bernard Mr BERNARD CORSER - A few years ago, all State distributors were required to hold large reserve stocks of canned foodstuffs. Later, such stocks were released in all States except Queensland, which was claimed to be particularly affected because at was adjacent to operational areas. With the cessation of hostilities, will the Government consider releasing these compulsorily held reserve stocks, which include jams, fruits, condensed milk and powdered milk, fine salt and other provisions, because these commodities are urgently required throughout Queensland and in places where there can be no danger of invasion? 4974 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - Yes. 4974 4974 JLZ 0 0 ANTHONY, Hubert Mr ANTHONY - Relatives of former prisoners of wai- and returning servicemen are anxiously awaiting the announcement of the approximate dates of the arrival of the troopships in Australia. For instance, the Dominion Monarch, carrying several thousand troops, left England on the 7th August, and relatives would like to know well in advance when the vessel is due in Australia. Is there any necessity for preserving secrecy regarding the date of the arrival of troopships? Will full information be given to the public regarding expected dates of arrival? 4974 JOM ALP 1 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - It would appear that the necessity no longer exists to preserve secrecy regarding the arrival of these troopships. Relatives and friends of returning service personnel desire to extend to the men a rousing welcome on their arrival here, and I am most anxious that they shall be able to do so. I shall discuss the matter with the Director of Shipping. Personally, I do not see any reason why notice of arrival should not be given. 4974 KFW 0 0 GUY, James Allan Mr GUY - I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Supply and Shipping whether it is a fact that barricades have been erected on wharfs at Tasmanian ports to prevent next of kin, relatives, and friends of servicemen returning from active service and from prisoner-of-war camps overseas from going on to the wharfs to welcome these men? Will the Minister ensure that these barricades shall be removed, and further, in view of the termination of hostilities, will he consider the removal of the ban upon the publication of details of the arrival at Australian ports of these vessels? 4975 JOM 0 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - In regard to the latter portion of the honorable member's question, I refer him to the answer which I gave to the honorable member for Richmond. I agreed with the honorable member for Richmond that the time had arrived for the publication of this information in the press, and I said also Hint a rousing reception should be given to our returning men. With that object in view, I shall ensure that the barricades shall be removed 4975 4975 JVA 0 0 MORGAN, Charles Mr MORGAN - Is the Minister representing the Minister for Supply and Shipping aware of the practice that is being adopted by the Commonwealth Disposals Commission of selling surplus stocks in large lots, and for cash? As this practice Ls not in the best interests of the Government, or of the community generally, but merely facilitates the operations of dealers who can buy up large quantities of goods and then retail them to thy general public at four or five times their COst price, will the Government take steps to ensure that, particularly in view of the fact that the end of hostilities will mean that much larger stocks will be placed in the hands of the commission, goods will be offered in single lots, and at suitable times and places, to enable the general public, and the workers in industry, to take advantage of them? 4975 JOM ALP 1 0 BEASLEY, John Mr BEASLEY - The honorable member will appreciate that selling surplus stocks in single lots would be a tremendous job. This matter has been raised on several occasions, but the point raised by the honorable member in regard to dealers cannot be ignored. The problem is to determine the best manner of conducting the sales in the interests of the public. It would be far too difficult to sell small items in individual lots. Possibly, the best way would be to dispose of some goods at least through the retail organizations of the various trades concerned, so that members of the community may have an opportunity to purchase what they desire, but the classes of goods which could he disposed of in that way are limited. I shall convey the honorable member's representations to the commission, and endeavour to formulate a method which at least will .defeat the activities of dealers. 4975 4975 KRE 0 0 SHEEHAN, Thomas Mr SHEEHAN - As a peace gesture, will the Prime Minister secure the immediate release from distention camps of servicemen undergoing sentences for absence without leave, and a reduction of the sentences of men .convicted pf more serious offences? 4975 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - I shall consult with the service Ministers on that matter. 4975 4975 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - Did the Minister for the Army read a statement in the press last week by the former Director of Rural Man Power, Mr. R. C. Wilson, to the effect that there was a shortage of 120,000 nien in primary industries throughout Australia? Is the Minister aware that since the cessation of hostilities, a General Routine Order has been issued by the Commander-in-Chief of the Australian armed forces, I understand, setting out certain priorities for releases from the Army, and that the list does not include rural labour? In view of the acute food shortage throughput the world, and of the difficult position that is developing in Great Britain as the result of the termination of the lend-lease arrangement with America, will the Minister have the rural industries of this country added to the list of undertakings for which priority releases are to be granted so that a substantial contribution may be made as quickly as possible to the stepping up of primary production. 4976 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr FORDE - As Acting Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, and the representative of a large agricultural district, I am fully aware of the great importance of primary production to this country. However, I remind the honorable member that the Government has had the matter of rural labour constantly in mind and already has taken action to assist substantially the primary producers of Australia. First, as Minister for the Army, in May, 1942, I placed a complete embargo upon call-ups from primary industries. Also, up to the 30th June of thisyear the Government had secured the release from the services of 50,000 workers for primary industries. Before the cessation of hostilities, provision was made for a further 64,000 discharges from the services up to the end of this year, and of course primary production would have secured its fair share of these releases, and of men discharged due to normal wastage. Now, of course, discharges will be greatly accelerated. I am not aware of any instruction issued by the Commander-in-Chief that no discharges are to be made for primary industries. The Army discharges only men whose services in civil life have been recommended by man-power authorities; but I shall have the matter examined by Army authorities in collaboration with man-power officials, and shall supply the honorable member with the information which he has sought. 4976 Status of Australia 4976 JWT 0 0 FRANCIS, Josiah Mr FRANCIS - In the absence of the Minister for External Affairs, I ask the Prime Minister whether his attention has been drawn to press reports published during the week-end that a strongly worded motion directed against "domination by the great powers" was lodged by the High Commissioner for Australia in London, Mr. Bruce, at the final full session of the council of Unrra? Has the right honorable gentleman also seen another statement attributed to Mr. Bruce that "with all respect to the Russian representative, he thought the council had been treated in an almost insulting wa ". If so, is the right honorable gentleman able to make a statement to the House on this subject, indi cating what action, if any, has been taken to ensure that Mr. Bruce's stand has the support of the Australian Government? I also desire to know what further steps are to be taken to ensure the representation of Australia on the full council of Unrra? 4976 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY -I have not seen the statements referred to by the honorable member, though I have heard some reference over the wireless to a statement that Mr. Bruce was reported to have made.I understood that the matter was settled finally by the withdrawal by Russia of certain objections that had been raised. I therefore considered that the whole matter had been arranged amicably. I shall have it further examined and shall ask the Minister for External Affairs to prepare a statement with regard to it. 4976 Sales Tax on Building Materials 4976 K0K 0 0 CONELAN, William Mr CONELAN -Will the Prime Minister give further consideration to the removal of sales tax from all materials required for the erection of homes and other buildings. 4976 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY - It will be remembered that during last year sales tax was removed from between 85 per cent. and 90 per cent. of the materials required for building purposes. Honorable members of all parties, including the honorable member for Wentworth, requested that sales tax should be removed also from other materials required for building purposes, such as certain fittings, baths and other articles. I gave an assurance that I would consider their representations when the sales tax wasbeing reviewed. That will be done. I reiterate, however, that probably more than 85 per cent. of the materials required for building purposes are already exempt from sales tax. 4976 miscellaneous 4976 Debate resumed from the 2nd August (vide page 4915), on motion by Mr. Calwell - That the following paper be printed: - Immigration - Government Policy - Minis terial Statement, 2nd August, 1945. 4976 N76 Kooyong Leader of the Opposition 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES . - I do not propose to speak at great length on this motion, not because the subject is not extremely important, for I believe it to be one of the most important that we have to discuss, but because the statement made by the Minister for Immigration (Mr. 'Calwell) is of a preliminary rather than of a final nature. The Minister indicated in his remarks the gravity of the problem. He then stated that certain limits had to be placed upon the capacity of Australia to receive migrants. The honorable gentleman then made excellent quotations from speeches by the former Governor of New South Wales (Lord Wakehurst) and by the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Spender). He proceeded to say that negotiations were in progress between Great Britain and the various dominions and that in due course it would be possible for him to say something more precise upon the Government's policy. Therefore, I do not propose to offer criticism of the policy, the details of which I do not yet know. I desire however to underline certain observations by the Minister because I believe them to be profoundly true. I shall then make some qualifications of one or two other matters referred to by the honorable gentleman. The Minister began by saying - We cannot continue to hold our island continent for ourselves and our descendants unless wo greatly increase our numbers Later he said - While the world yearns for peace and abhors war, no one can guarantee that there will be no more war. A third world war is not impossible, and after a period of fitful peace, humanity may be face to face again with the horrors of another period of total war. The honorable gentleman also said- We may have only those next 25 years in which to make the best possible use of our second chance to survive. Our first requirement is additional population. Those are grave words which I believe to be entirely true. For that reason I do not consider that any problem that is confronting us is more important than the problem of securing additional migrants to Australia from other parts of the world. This is not a problem which we can decide on the general balance of such a consideration as : " We should have more people and therefore, unless it becomes inconvenient, we will take steps to obtain them ". This is, in the real sense, a vital problem. I believe that upon the possibility of our securing a substantial migration to Australia during the next 30 years will depend not only the preservation of Australian independence but also - and this is a point that is occasionally overlooked - the true prospect of advancement of social benefits in Australia. I desire to make some observations on those two points. In the first place let us consider the subject of the independent existence of Australia. During the last week or two we have read, and have nad occasion to hear over the radio, a series of statements about our rights to independent status and the right we possess to participate in the negotiations with Japan. We have had it asserted with great spirit, sometimes with too much spirit, that our nation, for a long time now, has had independent existence. Even to-day we have listened to an important statement by the Prime Minister in which he has described Australia as " a principal power in the Pacific ". That statement should be related alike to our claims to participate in the Japanese surrender, and to our capacity to maintain some of the substance, as well as the form, of independence. So long as we are a population of only 7,000,000, or within measurable distance of that number, holding this vast continent, it is absurd for us to pretend that we can describe ourselves in real terms as an independent power. To a major degree, we shall be dependent upon other communities for our very existence and safety. 'Consequently, from the point of view of Australian independent existence and national integrity, it is vital that our population shall be increased. Whatever vain words may be spoken by those who have ideas on the subject of the birth-rate, it is still completely true that our real prospect of a large increase of population is to be found, as the Minister has pointed out quite clearly, in the possibility of substantial migration. There is a second aspect. Our national independence turns not only upon this element but also upon the steady raising of our living standards - the standards of social benefits and security that can be given to our people. I recall to the minds of honorable members one truth which is very often forgotten and of which, I fear, the public- is almost entirely unaware. It is this - that if we are to depend upon a natural increase of population, the whole trend of that increase is such that for the next 30 years we may not hope to have a net gain of more than about a million, substantially the whole of which will be represented by an increase of people of the pensionable age. In other words Australia, though it is a- young community in terms of history, is, like most other Occidental countries, an ageing community in point of age structure. So that, in the course of the next few years - because 30 years are only a few years, properly considered in relation to this-matter - we may very well find ourselves, lacking some large flush of population} with substantially the same number of contributors- to the public revenues and the total resources of Australia as we have to-day, but with a vastly increased number of those who will depend upon' the community for benefits. 4978 JLZ 0 0 ANTHONY, Hubert Mr Anthony - The age balance will be quite upset. 4978 N76 0 0 MENZIES, Robert Mr MENZIES - That is. the point with which I have been, dealing; in- that sense, we are an ageing community. The older generations will become more numerous, while the younger will become less numerous. Consequently, either we shall place upon a static number of people in Australia a steadily increasing burden- so as to maintain- a- rising level of social benefits, or we must get into this country from other parts of the world a few million people over some period of years, if we are to have the working, producing, contributing population that will be needed to sustain what everybody wants' to see in the way of social betterment. So I merely emphasize - because there is nothing fresh to be said about the matter - that for those two reasons I entirely subscribe to the view stated by the Minister, that we cannot continue to hold our island continent for ourselves and our descendents - and, I interpolate, we cannot continue to build up our true living standards - unless we greatly increase our numbers. The Minister proceeded from, that firm foundation to say something which, I confess, disturbed me. He said - It has been proven by hard experience over long periods that the maximum effectivepopulation absorption capacity- I always become terrified when I see a lot of long words like that; I suspect somebody - in any expanding country is usually somewhere about 2 per cent, of its numbers. I regret to say that during the parliamentary interval since this speech was made I have been labouring, not always successfully, in the political vineyard ;. consequently, I have not been able to devote as much time as I should have liked to an analysis of that statement. It would be interesting if the Minister, when replying to the debate, could give parallel figures from the United States of America, because one's impression is that the absorption into the. UnitedStates of America in the period of great migration was certainly more than, the percentage stated by the Minister would indicate. There is another reason which causes me to be disposed to question, if not to reject, the Minister's statement; it is this : The figures he has given of the net natural increase in Australia show an average, over the last five years, of approximately 70;000. That may be an unduly optimistic figure; because, in the period before the war, it was approximately from 50,000 to 55,000, and, as he knows, there has been an increase during the war years. 4978 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - It reached as low as 36,000 during the depression. Mi-. MENZIES. - That does not astonish me. I looked at the figures just prior to- the war, and saw that they were between 50,000' and 55,000. Naturally, they will be affected by a variety of circumstances. The average of 70,000 a year mentioned by the Minister, leaves us, in his view, with a migration ceiling of 70,000 a year; and, as the other conditions of complete re-absorption of men into the civil life of Australia and so on, mentioned by him, represent the -Government view, it may very well be that the process of getting migrants, so regarded, will not begin for some years yet. Discounting the period for that purpose, and in the light of that circumstance, it looks to me as though all that we can contemplate, with such a ceiling for the next 25 vital years, will be something of the order of 1,500,000 migrants, assuming - which I do not - that year by year for so long a period of time we would continue to secure 70,000 people. The Minister has come fresh to his department, and it is quite plain that in his statement he has not endeavoured to be final in his view, but has really told the Parliament what he could at this stage, and anticipates telling it more in the future. So I say this to him : If, as I believe and he believes, large migration is absolutely vital to Australia, using the words in their strictest sense, then we must be prepared to take some risks in order to get it. The risk that we shall take in the future without a large increase of population stares us in the face. If we are to avoid that risk by getting population, then we must be prepared to adopt an adventurous policy of migration. We must be prepared to take risks with, some of our standards of perfection, with some of our problems, in order to get people to come here. Nobody in Australia wants to see Australian standards broken down. There is no earthly reason why they should be. But there is every reason why they should be built up by an increasing population, by new people drawn from various countries in the world, who will not be the worst class but, as in the case of our own ancestors, probably the best people, with a spirit of adventure in them; people willing to make a new life in a new country. We must be prepared to accept some risks with our notions inside Australia, if we are to avoid the undoubted risk that will exist should our population remain low; in other words, should we postpone our attack upon the migration problem until all our own domestic and economic problems have been solved, we shall probably postpone it so long that we may abandon our whole chance .of getting real migrants from the other side of the world. So my plea to the Minister - my advice, if he will allow me to put it in that wayis that, if a choice has to be made between a policy of extreme caution and an adventurous policy which accepts risks because great results are involved, then let us have a more adventurous policy. Two other things are all that I desire to mention. The first is this: I do not believe that we can assume that migrants will be available to us at our demand over a long period of years. I believe the history of the world has shown that there are certain periods of flux, in which populations are drawn off from one part of the world into another. I believe, in spite of the pessimists, that it may very well be that, with the cessation of hostilities in Europe and Great Britain, such a period of flux may begin. It may very well be, notwithstanding the population structure of those countries, that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people, living in and around the war zones of Europe, may find within themselves a burning desire to get away from the scenes of destruction, from places in which the uncertainty of life, the instability of existence, has been so painfully demonstrated over the last six years. It may very well be that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, will turn their eyes to distant and more peaceful countries, presenting, as they believe, great opportunities to them. If I am wrong in that view, then we may despair of getting migrants, and that is the end of the argument. But if I am right in that view, then it is the most cogent season for attacking this problem promptly, for accepting temporary risks and inconveniences so that we may attract migrants into Australia at the time when they are most capable of being attracted. The other remark that I want to make - and I am glad to be able to come back at the end of my brief observations on the problem to a point of agreement with what the Minister said - is that occasionally in Australia we make speeches about migration. Many private citizens may be heard to advocate most roundly immigration to Australia. But if we are to have a successful migration policy, then we must have in our minds two things which we cannot sufficiently emphasize. In the first place, we must not think of migrants into Australia as competitors; we must think of them primarily as assets and as those who, by becoming consumers, will themselves stimulate production in this country. If we are continually to 'harp in our minds on the aspect that they are coming here to snatch a job, to take business, to compete with us in this or that avenue, we shall have such a false view of migration that we shall never be able to attract real migrants. If we think of migrants, when they arrive here, as outsiders and not as new Australians, then again we shall make a blunder, the repercussions of which may in the long run serve to destroy the best devised migration scheme that can be introduced. We have a valuable lesson to learn from the United States of America in dealing with the problem of migration, and a study of the methods adopted by it would well repay this Parliament. An outstanding feature of the modern history of that great country was the enormous influx of population from Europe. The result in the first instance was a sort of polyglot population, consisting of large communities of people of various races. At that stage, people who regarded themselves as intellectual were inclined to point the finger of scorn at the United States of America and say, " It is a mere melting pot of millions of people who have been poured out of Europe, but they have not been nationally absorbed ". In the last few years, however, we have been reminded in the most eloquent manner that a country that has absorbed into itself the mental and physical vigour and the ambitions of a vast variety of peoples, can demonstrate that, by its superb and indeed unrivalled mechanical skill and organizing ability, it can move people across the oceans to rectify the balance of population in the old world. The history of America is a perfect epic of what can be done by a wise, risk-taking policy of migration, and by giving a wide open welcome to those who come to its shores, not speaking the English language, but those of foreign lands, and by saying to them, " The moment you arrive on this soil, my friend, yon ave an American citizen". We, too, must say to the immigrant to Australia, " The moment you arrive on this soil you are an Australian citizen ". Let us take .some risks. Let us bring to this country, not a few carefully handpicked people who, we think, are of our own kind. Whether they come from Europe, Great Britain or the United States, let us welcome all who have the vigour and enterprise to come here. I hope that we shall not be too insistent upon having some theoretical person measuring up proposed migrants to determine whether their physical or mental capacity is all that it might be. I am happy to recall that some of the most distinguished men in this country might have had great difficulty in passing a physical test on entering Australia but they have proved great assets to this country. The truth is that the spirit in men and women that will induce them to pull up their roots in one country and go 10,000 miles across the world to make a new home is the spirit that counts more in this matter than in anything else. My remarks have not been offered by way of political criticism, of some of the qualifications in the Minister's speech with which I do not agree. I regard his statement as a tentative pronouncement, and as a hint that in due course more details of .the Government's proposals will be provided. I merely rose to offer to the House my own profoundly held view that, if we are determined to avoid the great risks confronting Australia in the long run, we must be prepared to face considerable risks in the short run in order to bring increased population to this country. 4980 JWR Adelaide 0 0 CHAMBERS, Cyril Mr CHAMBERS .- I warmly congratulate the Minister for Immigration (Mr. Calwell) upon the fact that the important port-folio of immigration has been entrusted to him, and I commend him for the broad views on immigration problems which he displayed in his speech. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies) has undoubtedly made a valuable contribution to the debate, and I concur in his remarks generally, except in so far as he referred to certain risks which Australia should bc prepared to take in implementing an immigration scheme. I agree that if Australia is to embark on an extensive scheme it will have to take risks in admitting certain aliens into this country. but the risk we should decline to take is t at of being unable to ensure security for the people of Australia and for those whom we intend to invite to this country. The reason why immigration schemes have been unsuccessful in the past is that we have not taken measures to ensure the security of our own people, and the absence of that security has resulted in lack of security for the migrants. If Australia is to survive, a most important decision with regard to immigration must bo made. We cannot afford to allow the population to remain as low as it is at present. Australia has been a most fortunate country for many years, in that, it bits enjoyed freedom from attack despite the smallness of its numbers. Had this country been invaded during the present war, it must have been defeated because of the smallness of our population. We could not have saved ourselves. The birth-rate since the 1914-1S war has been so low that Australia can no longer depend upon the natural increase. It must look beyond its shores for people who will help to increase its population, hut it will not be an easy task to attract migrants. The countries to which we should normally look for them have suffered grievously owing to the war just concluded. I doubt whether Great Britain will be prepared to allow large, numbers of people to leave Britain and adopt Australia as their new home. The Minister attached special significance to the fact that we must endeavour to bring to Australia children from the wardevastated portions of Europe. I agree with him that children would make the best possible migrants. They would not impose so great an economic strain on this country as would adult migrants. They would attend our schools, mingle with our own children, and grow up to be good Australian citizens. Adult migrants would not acquire truly Australian sentiments to the same degree as would child migrants. If the Government intends to do all it possibly can to induce migrants to pome to Australia, every effort must be made to develop the natural resources of this country, and this should be done quickly. Our first responsibility is to the Australian people, and during the postwar period, when the rehabilitation of px-service personnel will be of paramount importance, many new industries should he developed and others should be carried on more vigorously than in the past. Many national works which I need not enumerate at this juncture can be undertaken. However, the first requisite for the success of any migration policy is that we guarantee economic security to our own people. That is the greatest encouragement we can give to people from other countries to settle in Australia. Provided we first guarantee economic security to our own people we shall have little difficulty in attracting migrants in great numbers to this country. We cannot build up our population to any appreciable degree within a period of a few years. For this reason the long range policy outlined by the Minister is indispensable. Only by laying our plans on such a basis can we hope to build up our population to the minimum required for our survival as a nation in the future. T am confident that the second generation of migrants will quickly be absorbed in the community, and become loyal Australian citizens. Sitting suspended from 5.47 to 8 p.m. 4981 KNX Wentworth UAP; LP from 1944 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON . - Before the suspension of the sitting the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies) made some timely references' to the Minister for Immigration (Mr. Calwell). The right honorable gentleman said that he did not blame the Minister for the extraordinary statement delivered by him on the subject of migration. I agree that the Minister is not altogether to blame, as he is in charge of a new department, but the Government must accept the responsibility for a statement that holds out no hope whatever that migrants will be encouraged to come to Australia. In my opinion, the statement is merely a hopeless gesture. I recall statements on the subject of migration made from time to time by Labour leaders. Not long after the Curtin Government came into office, the then Prime Minister said that his Government's set policy was to encourage the rapid increase of our population. That was a forthright statement ; it gave promise of . action. But the statement presented to the Parliament by the Minister, in which the Government's policy is set out, contains nothing of a positive nature. The Government must have known that sooner or 'later it would have to formulate a policy in regard to migration; yet, instead of a positive statement of policy, we have before us something of a purely negative kind, certainly not a statement designed to encourage that rapid addition to our population of which the late Prime Minister spoke. 4982 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - It faces the facts. 4982 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - I shall deal with, that later. I had hoped that an assurance would be given that immigration on a large scale would commence as soon as the war was over; that numbers of people, including orphaned children from war-torn European countries, would be encouraged to seek in Australia a new opening in a land which promised safety and comfortable conditions. Because of its sparse population, Australia is incapable of maintaining a policy contrary to that of the Great Powers. We expected a definite pronouncement of. policy, because it is known that large numbers of persons in Europe are willing to migrate to Australia. That is made clear in the following extract from the Daily Telegraph of the 14th June: - At least 40,000 people in the past six months have asked Australia House for particulars about migration to Australia. Many of them have already decided that Australia will .be their future home. But it is still impossible to tell these potential new citizens of the Commonwealth under what conditions they can go to Australia, and no one in London knows the reason. An Australia House official said "We can give the people no specific information, because no migration plan has yet been announced. Our hands are tied. All we can do - and have been doing for months - is to try to keep up their interest, which is satisfactory neither to us nor to them." Instead of assurances which would give some hope of a greatly increased population, thereby adding to our sense of security, the Minister presented to us a string of platitudes. He said - Three matters of major importance have to be dealt with .before any organized, plan of large-scale immigration is possible - The first of these is the demobilization, rchaibilita.ti.on, a.nd re-employment of the men and women in the Australian fighting services. With this question is involved also the transfer back to their peace-time avocations of all those engaged in producing the requirements of the armed forces. How soon will these men and women be demobilized? If we accept the statement presented to the Parliament to-day by the Minister for Post-war Reconstruction (Mr. Dedman), it would appear that several years will elapse before demobilization is complete. That would mean that it will be some years before we can restore our economic position. The Minister continued - The second is the overtaking of the lag in national housing and the provision of additional houses to meet the demands of an increasing population. We have not the necessary resources of raw materials to embark on a comprehensive housing scheme; we lack bricks, tiles, plaster board, timber, and other necessary materials. I doubt whether there is 1,000,000 superficial feet of seasoned timber in Australia to-day. If we are to wait until our economic position has been restored ; until men and women now serving with the fighting forces or engaged in the manufacture of munitions or other war work; and until a comprehensive scheme of housing has been completed, all. the persons in Europe who would be willing to migrate to Australia will have been accepted- as migrants by our sister dominions, and we shall find it impossible to obtain thai addition to our population which will increase our sense of security. The Minister went on to say - The third is the provision of adequate shipping to bring new citizens to Australia under reasonably comfortable circumstances. I give the House and the country this assurance, that no large-scale plan of immigration will be initiated by my department until these obligations arc within sight of accomplishment. A migration scheme which is dependent on the complete restoration of our economic position and the other factors which I have mentioned is a scheme which is stillborn. The Minister also said - For the foregoing reasons, we intend to embark on an adequate publicity campaign in Britain and in other centres of potential immigration on the European continent, designed to explain to the people there our anxiety to receive them on the one hand, and the causes for the delays that are inevitable on the other. In other words, the Minister says to intending migrants, "We want you; we can give you everything; but we can't aCcept you as migrants ". What is the use of a publicity plan designed to attract migrants to this country if we cannot accept them because this or that reason prevents us ? It is a case of " Live horse, and. you will get hay". The Government's plan means that many who would make useful Australian citizens will be old and decrepit before they can be brought here. It is no wonder that Professor Wood of the Melbourne University, after analysing the Minister's statement said that it was timid and unimpressive. I think that the Professor was generous in his assessment of the Government's immigration policy. We all know that the Labour party has always been opposed to any form of migration. There is nothing in the Minister's statement to indicate that it is the policy of the Government to develop and populate Australia and to make this country a force in the Pacific. I am not foolish enough to believe that there are not difficult problems associated with migration; but, situated as we are geographically, with tons of millions of coloured people not far to the north of Australia, it is imperative that those problems be overcome now, not at some distant date. This country's population should be increased to at least 20,000,000. Such a programme raises problems of great magnitude. It raises, for instance, the question of the maintenance of the White Australia policy. I do not intend to embark on a debate on that subject, but I pause to say that I believe in that policy with every fibre of my being. Any person who seeks to cut across that policy does a great disservice to Australia. In saying that, I refer to mass migration, not to restricted quotas of coloured people and Asiatics generally. I believe that we must have restricted quotas of such people, but not large scale migration. I appreciate the problems associated with a migration policy, particularly in view of Australia's acceptance of the Atlantic Charter and all that it involves. I know that at the peace table the sparsity of Australia's population and its undeveloped state will be in the minds of many representatives of other countries; but whatever the problems that confront us, they will not be as great as if the immigration barriers which now exist were pulled down completely. I do not want to see in Australia the racial and economic problems of the United States of America where there are about 13,000,000 negroes. Honorable members will remember that just before the outbreak of war a bill was introduced in the Senate of that country for the raising of $12,000,000,000 for the purchase of four provinces in Liberia in which to settle American negroes in an attempt to overcome the problem their presence in America creates. Our choice lies between selective immigration on a big scale and completely tearing down the barriers which prevent the flooding of Australia by millions of coloured people and Asiatics. In order that the Minister may have some knowledge of the problems that confront us we should take a quick look at the position to see whether we can accommodate a large population, and, if so, how large, and how we shall obtain it. Estimates of the population carrying capacity of Australia range from 10,000,000 to 100,000,000, but many factors have to be taken into consideration before a reliable figure can be determined. First, we need to take into consideration the fertile fringe of a portion of Australia. I think all will agree that by closer settlement in that part of the country we could accommodate many millions. Secondly, we have the area of light rainfall. We can look for a population in that area similar to the population in other light rainfall areas in other countries. The figures with regard to the United States of America, which are available to all honorable members, lead me without difficulty to the belief that Australia can reasonably support a population of 40,000,000 provided we can conserve water and markets are available. How can we get an increased population? Four methods will occur to honorable members. First, more people may enter Australia. That, of course, is simply another way of saying that we need more migrants. Secondly, fewer people should leave Australia, but we can dispose of that, I think, because, although the vital statistics show that great numbers have left Australia, if conditions are made conducive, we shall hold migrants once they are attracted here. Thirdly, the birth-rate may increase. Fourthly, the death-rate may decrease. In regard to the first consideration let us examine the statistics. I have selected those up to 1938. Later figures will not give the true story, because the war has upset the basis of vital statistics. From 1925 to 1929 arrivals exceeded departures by 132,000. 4984 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - The excess in those years was only about twice our annua1, target. 4984 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - I will deal with that later. From 1930 to 1937 departures exceeded arrivals by 31,000 and those lost were mostly of British stock. That seems to show that having attracted migrants to Australia, the conditions were such as made it impossible to hold them in contentment. Some positive policy is, therefore, necessary to attract and hold migrants. The Minister has set a ceiling of 70,000 migrants a year. He expressed the belief that the maximum effective absorption capacity was about 2 per cent, of the population, but if the earlier part of his statement be correct, and our position is that we may be precipitated into another war 20 or 25 years hence, the target must be lifted to a figure that will enable us to protect ourselves. A target of 70,000 a year does not solve the problem that we have to solve. If the Minister goes into the problem more exhaustively, I am sure he will find that he must lift the target. I do agree that if we must await the provision of houses and jobs for every man in Australia before we bring migrants to Australia, 70,000 is too high a target; it will never be reached. The Minister has mainly concentrated on the prospect of migrants from Great Britain. That would be all to the good if we could get them, because there are no better settlers than the British. But we must face the facts. The days of mass migration from the United Kingdom passed long ago. Conditions are different from those which prevailed in the eighteenth century, when Cotter Morrison, referring to the increase of the population of Britain from 8,700,000 to 26,000,000 in 80 years, pleaded for a " cessation from the devastating torrent of children". The time has come when the United Kingdom must foster those within its own boundaries and not allow them to be moved in large numbers to any other part of the British Empire. Compare the position which gave rise to Cotter Morrison's plea with the present trend in Great Britain. Dr. Charles, an eminent specialist in population matters, has forecast that by 1980 the population of the United Kingdom will drop from 45,000,000 to 29,000,000. In arriving at this conclusion, he has forsaken what he describes as crude figures concentrated on the reproductive rates. The birth-rate in Great Britain has dropped from 25.5 to 14.7 per 1,000 and the rate of increase of population- has dropped from 18.1 to 5.5 per 1,000. 4984 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - Those are pre-war figures. 4984 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - I have already said that I would not deal with war-time figures which do not give a complete picture. Dr. Charles deduces a most interesting fact that I 'have not previously encountered, and I doubt whether other honorable gentlemen have. He has deduced that British women are not reproducing their own numbers. The replacement rate in 1921 was 1.07. That is 1,000 women were producing 1,070 female infants. In 1938 the rate was 81 or 810 female infants to 1,000 women. He points out correctly and with great force that the production of female infants is the determining factor in population. I have no doubt that those are the figures that moved Mr. Herbert Morrison to say in the House of Commons in May, 1943- We have to-day among 4.1.000,000 people in England and Wales the same number of children as in 1870 when the population was 24,000,000. At the time of the Boer War there were 1,500,000 more children in England and Wales than to-day. If not corrected our population on the basis of present trends will be halved by the end of the present century, and about half the population will be over (i0. That way lies national extinction and none of our long-term reconstruction plans will be more than pleasant dreams if we do not alter things. That is the position in Australia. AH our plans will be merely pleasant dreams unless we do something to alter it. We know the reason for the position in Great Britain. It is the fixed policy of the British Labour party that no alien shall bc permitted to enter England to take a job held by or capable of being held by an Englishman. .Similarly, in this country, we have heard from the Minister a statement that the jobs of Australian workers must be protected, that economic conditions must bc settled and that homes must be built before we' can let migrants enter. So, the same retarding influence has been and will be felt in Australia as has brought about the conditions existing in Great Britain to-day. In order to prove my contentions, I take the next consideration, namely, the need to increase the birth-rate in Australia. That merits a great deal of attention from the Department of Immigration in the hope that improved home life will bring the best migrant we can get - the Australian-born child. Our record of vital statistics is splendid. Our birthrate is the highest in the Empire and the death-rate of 9.6 per thousand is the lowest, with the exception of New Zealand. 4985 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - Our birth-rate is woefully low. 4985 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - Yes, it is woefully low, but, it is the highest in the Empire. 4985 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - That is very little consolation. 4985 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - I take no consolation from it, and I propose to say something about it. Our population is increasing on a decreasing scale. Seventy years ago our population was increasing rapidly. "We had the extraordinarily high rate of increase of 37 per thousand. Since then a blight has fallen with the increased use of contraceptives, flat life and easy living. In 1938 the rate had dropped to 17.4 per thousand, approximately half the rate of 70 years ago. 4985 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - The latest figures show that the rate is 20 per cent. 4985 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - The figure I gave was the figure in 1938. War always causes an upward trend in population. Here we have figures comparable with those given by Dr. Charles in regard to Great Britain. The Australian figures were taken out by another eminent authority, Mr. G. F. McCleary, M.D., in his book The Menace of British Depopulation". He says that in 1920, 1,000 mothers produced 1,319 girl children, while in 1932-33 1,000 mothers produced only 976 girl children. From this it is deduced that, in 30 years from now, population figures in Australia will have become stationary and will then begin to decline. Some time ago, I wrote a series of articles for the press on the subject of maternal and infant mortality. I pointed out that the loss of mothers in Australia was double that in France, Italy, Norway and Japan. More than half the number of those who died were under 30 years of age; that is, they were of an age when their fertility was at its highest. Australia was also losing from 8,000 to 10,000 children annually, half the number being under the age of one year. That is why I -say that the problem of populating Australia is second only in importance to the winning of the war. 4985 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - And migration is only part of the problem. 4985 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - I know that. That is why I should like to hear from the Minister a comprehensive statement setting forth what his department proposes to do, rather than the string of platitudes that we have had from him. In 1921, there was an excess of 135,527 persons in the lower-age groups, but by 1938, this excess had been reduced to a minus figure 33,S00. It is evident, therefore, that we have not sufficient numbers in the lower age groups to replace the wastage in the higher age groups, even though our mortality rate is at present low. Instead of our population representing a pyramid, firmly based upon a large number in the lower-age group and tapering off to a smaller number in the higher age groups, the tendency is for it to assume the shape of an inverted pyramid, with a comparatively small number of young people at the base, and a proportionately larger number of old people at the top. Our mortality rate at the present time is low, but even so, the birth-rate is not high enough to make good the natural wastage. Unless the birth-rate increases, the mortality rate must necessarily increase in proportion to the population as a whole. It behoves us, therefore, to increase the population by migration, and by stimulating the birth-rate. The Government is now concerning itself, with a migration policy. It must make this policy a positive one, so as to ensure that natural wastage will be made good. But what has the Government done? It has placed before Parliament a statement which is just about as hopeless as the Minister himself. There is no evidence in it that the Government proposes to do anything to bring migrants to Australia in sufficient numbers to develop our resources and insure the security of the country. [Extension of time granted.] What has the Government to offer the migrant, first, in order to induce him to come to Australia, and then to keep him here? What are the possibilities of attracting capital to Australia? If we can attract capital, our prospects of attracting migrants are rosy, hut capital will be attracted only if there exists the possibility of investing it, and obtaining a satisfactory return. Those who control capital will not, however, consider investing it in Australia while there exists the danger that the Government will socialize the industries in which capital is invested. Capital will take risks in order to secure a return on investment, but it will not take risks when it knows that the Government is preparing to socialize industry. The Government has invited overseas industries to come to Australia en bloc, and to bring with them their own workers, but that will not occur if industry is to have no security in Australia, if there is to hang constantly over it the threat of socialization. .Some time ago, the Minister for the Army (Mr. Forde) made an appeal for the investment of British and American capital in Australia. 4986 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - There is nothing wrong with that. 4986 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - No, but I was reminded of that appeal when an American said to me the other day, "You have a lot of fun in Australia lopping the tall poppies ". I cannot imagine the tall poppies hastening to migrate to Australia so that they may be cut down. If we are to attract capital and industries to Australia, we must provide suitable conditions. During the ten years from 1930 to 1939, $17,000,000,000 of capital were brought into the United States of America, most of it in the form of foreign money. That was because conditions in the United States of America offered opportunities for profitable investment, because in the United States of America the emphasis was on private enterprise and not on socialization. If capital had come into Australia in the same ratio, there would have been invested here during those ten years, £200,000,000 which is more than ten times the amount of shareholders' funds in the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited, and more than three times the amount of shareholders' funds in the trading banks. We are very proud of the steel industry in Australia which produces annually 1,500,000 tons -of steel. Foreign gold made it possible for the United States of America to increase production in five years by more than 40 times Australia's total. I believe that both capital and migrants will go where opportunity offers, not 'where the Government hands out jobs to its political supporters. There are opportunities to attract migrants of the right type, but the Government must act quickly. There was an opportunity to bring to Australia orphaned children, but what has the Government done about it? 4986 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - Everything possible. 4986 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr HARRISON - The Government's method has been to tell the people of other countries about the attractions which Australia has to offer, and then to finish up by saying they cannot come here just yet. There is nothing positive in the present migration policy. We must adopt an entirely different attitude towards foreigners if we are to induce them te come here in considerable numbers. I am aware of the difficulties to be overcome in this regard, and I know what the Government ought to do in the matter. It should establish centres in the various European countries in order to encourage the migration of the right kind of people to Australia. The encouragement of migration is discussed by Norman Angell in his book You and the Refugee, from which I quote the following passage - It was the fate of one of the present authors to pass some years in America, and he remembers that in those days every small town had a " Booster Club ", whose job it was to try and double the size of the town, because as people came in prosperity was increased ; houses had to bc built, school buildings erected, new tramlines projected, new roads and railroads undertaken. All this meant increasing commercial activity. If you had suggested to the citizens of Oshkosk, or New Paris, that the influx »f an additional thousand population was going to 'be bad for its prosperity, you would have been regarded as an almost certifiable lunatic, and the president of the "Booster Club " would have presented you with a case something like this: "When an emigrant comes here and brings li is wife and children, they have to be fed, clothed, housed, warmed; and the first thing that happens therefore is that the grocer, the clothing store, the builder and the coal merchant are made busier. "Even if the emigrant has to go to the Public Assistance first of all for a loan - well, money flows more freely, and does more good perhaps going to a new population than into the hands of grafting politicians. " And if you tell me that these thousand emigrants are going to take a thousand jobs from our towns, I tell you that you are talking nonsense. For the carpenters that are included amongst them will get busy on thu new school houses that they will want, and the farmers amongst them will improve land in the neighbourhood of our town; their market gardeners will introduce better methods nf truck farming, and I understand a company is already started to produce winter vegetables under glass. That policy is diametrically opposed to the one generally advocated by honorable members opposite, who claim that the newcomer represents a challenge to our own workers in the competition for jobs. The simple fact is that migrants, by stimulating demand, increase markets and make more jobs. If we defer immigration until there is an assured job for every one, we shall wait until the millennium. The migrant is not, and never has been a liability. The migrant is an asset, and I have yet to learn of n country or a government becoming bankrupt as the result of increasing its trading or assets. Whilst we may accept, the Minister's statement as the forerunner of something that will give' us greater hope in the future, we do not regard it as a positive policy on migration. It is a promise of those things which we hope will come. This subject is full of complexities and the Minister has not yet had sufficient time to enable him completely to understand them. To comprehend precisely what the migrant means to- Australia, he should study the conditions which obtained in the United States nf America, because valuable lessons can be learnt from the experience of that great country. However, in a short space of time, we hope that the Minister will put forward a positive policy on migration. 4987 JNX Bass 0 0 BARNARD, Herbert Mr BARNARD .- It is fitting that in the early days of peace, this House should discuss the important subject of migration. This afternoon the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies) dealt comprehensively with this matter, and his speech revealed that the right honorable gentleman had devoted a good deal of thought to it. He expounded certain principles which we may follow with advantage to Australia. Recognizing the importance of immigration, the Government has placed the administration of it under the control of a Minister who has fewer departments to handle than have some other Ministers. The object is to enable him to give close attention to immigration in the early days of peace, and that is evidence of the sincerity and desire of the Government to give effect to practical proposals for inducing people from other countries to settle in Australia. The honorable member for Wentworth (Mr. Harrison), who 'has just resumed his seat, always waxes warm and eloquent in. debates in this chamber. He participates in most of them, and although he does not, always know much about his subject, he speaks upon it with an air of great authority. To-night, honorable members listened to his dissertation on immigration, and his remarks proved that, no progress will be made in this matter if he and his colleagues become responsible for it in the future. I regard the statement made by the Minister for Immigration (Mr. Calwell) as being most important. It contains evidence of careful thought, and has many positive proposals. It frankly admits the difficulties confronting the Government in the early days in peace in bringing migrants to this country. However, the Minister declared that plans are being made, and he outlined the method bv which the general problem will be tackled, and the types of migrants who. we hope, will later come to Australia. That i-a a practical approach to this problem. For years we have talked about inducing people to settle in Australia, but. so far. we have not been Very successful. It is certain that unless we improve our standard of living so that conditions here will be better than those in the countries from which we hope to attract migrants, we shall not succeed in inducing people to come to Australia. In his statement on immigration, the Minister said - Pending the resumption of large-scale adult migration, the Government will take every available opportunity to facilitate the entry into Australia of accepted children from other countries. The Government has already approved in principle a plan to bring to Australia, in the first three years after the war, 50.000 orphans from Britain and other countries that have been devastated by the war. Discussions on the details of this plan are proceeding with the States, and we hope soon to reach a stage where the full possibilities of the scheme can be properly assessed. That does not support the argument' adduced by the honorable member for Wentworth. The Government has a plan, which it hopes to put into operation in the first three years after the war, to bring 50,000 orphans from Great Britain and other countries that have been devastated in this conflict. The honorable member for Wentworth carefully a voided any reference to that matter. 4988 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr Harrison - On the contrary, 1 commended the Minister for it. 4988 JNX 0 0 BARNARD, Herbert Mr BARNARD - Our problem is to get the right type of migrant. ,The population of Australia may be increased by two methods. First, by the greater care of -our Australian-born, and, secondly, by immigration. During the last few years it. has been my privilege to study proposals for the greater care of our Australianborn. The honorable member for Wentworth, who referred to this matter at some length, pointed out with some pride that the death-rate in Australia is lower than it is in certain other countries. But if honorable members will examine the facts as presented in the eighth interim report of the Social Security Committee, dated the 27th June, 1945, they will -find that Australia has not given to the subject of infant and child welfare as much consideration as it should have done. After all, no migrants, whether they be children or adults, will be as stood Australians when they attain manhood and womanhood as are our own Australian-born. The Social Security Committee has devoted a good deal of careful thought to the subject, and has examined proposals for dealing with the problem in the early days of peace so that the death-rate, low as it may be now, may be considerably reduced, particularly by saving the lives of Australian children under one year. Dealing with this matter, the committee reported - The infant welfare centre is concerned with the 'baby during the first year of its life. The development of these clinics over the past 30 years bus coincided with one of the greatest achievements of modern times - the saving of child life during that first year, which is statistically registered by the infantile mortality rate (deaths of infants under one year of age per 1.000 live births). The experience of Victoria may be taken «s typical of Australia - in every 1,000 children born during the years 1000-04, Victoria lost !)8 infants each year before their first birthday; 74 infants during the years 1910-14: 05 during the years 1920-24, and 43 each year during the years 1930-34. In 1940, the deaths per 1.000 births numbered 39; in 1941, 30.2: in 1942, 41.7; and in 1943, 35.8. In that decline, there has been a significant variation in the annual causes of deaths per I 000 births. Over the years, the mortality of infants from diarrhoea! diseases has been reduced by 93 per cent.; the main respiratory diseases 'by 3S per cent., and the infectious diseases by 72 per cent. Variations in classification in earlier years of the pre-natal causes of death prevent an exact comparison, but on detailed analysis of causes of death under this heading, no appreciable decline is evident, (that is, in deaths recorded as due :tO such causes as malformations, congenital debility, and prematurity, &c). For the whole of Australia since 1911, infantile mortality has shown a marked decline, as the following figures indicate: - Honorable members will see that Australia has achieved remarkable success in saving the lives of Australian-born children under one year. Yet even more may be done in this matter to ensure that, children born in this country shall attain manhood and womanhood. That, should be the first approach to the general problem of increasing our population. I direct pointed attention to the "facts contained in the eighth interim report of the Social Security Committee, because those who are competent to give a considered opinion agreed unanimously that Australia may considerably increase ite population by saving the lives of Australian-bora. The Minister has evolved a plan for child immigration. Beyond that, we cannot go at present. The honorable member for Wentworth, who read an extract from the book entitled You And The Refugee, referred to "Booster Clubs '' set up in America. In the city of Launceston, there is an organization known as the " Launceston Fifty-Thousand League", the object of which is to increase' the population of the city. to 50;000. Organizations such as this could well be used to encourage migration on the " booster " principle. It will not be practicable to bring a large number of migrants to this country for some years to come. First, we have to find migrants willing to come to Australia. Then we have to provide transport for them, and finally, we must bc able to fit them reasonably into our community and into our economy. Large bodies of people cannot be brought here unless facilities are to be provided to enable them to take their place as useful members' 6f the community. I believe'/ therefore, that we could, with advantage, follow the plan which has been adopted in other countries, and has been tried in some parts of Australia. In the years immediately prior to the war the Launceston Fifty Thousand League induced many migrants to settle in thi3 country. A number of them had some money with which they purchased homes thus assisting them to settle into the community. They were of British stock, come coming from England and Scotland, and others from India. That is an example, on a small scale, of what could be done by an extension of this work throughout the Commonwealth! These organizations should be given every encouragement. 1 do not suggest that large sums of money should be paid to them to carry on their work, nor do I believe that people should be brought to this country indiscriminately and regardless of whether or not they are of the right type. Of course, some risks have to be taken in any large scale migration scheme. In years gone by. organizations such as the Launceston Fifty Thousand League have made exten sive contacts with people overseas. In the last few months quite a number of individuals have written to the league seeking information and stating that they wish to migrate to Australia, and to bring their families, at the earliest possible opportunity. The information sought has been supplied by the league, not without expense. The development of a large scale migration scheme will require a considerable time. Even if 1,000 migrants were brought to Australia every week, the total at the end of a year would be only -52,000. That gives an idea of the difficulty that confronts this country in quickly building up its population from outside sources. We must tackle this problem first by protecting Australian-born citizens. Deaths in the first year of life and in early childhood must be reduced to a minimum. To this end 1 suggest the adoption of the plan envisaged by the Social Security Committee. Secondly, immigration should be encouraged by assisting small organizations such as the Launceston Fifty Thousand League. In the past, the efforts of these bodies have been on a small scale, but they have had some success in encouraging a flow of migrants to this country. The work should be extended. The statement of the honorable member for Wentworth that prospective migrants to Australia would be discouraged by the socialistic tendencies of this Government is so much " moonshine ". For instance, the present. Government of the United Kingdom, which is likely to remain in office for many years to come, has socialistic tendencies, therefore in respect of that country at least, the honorable member's argument cannot be supported. People will not have much hesitation in leaving the lands in which they now live if they believe that their conditions of life will be much better here. This country is capable of vast development; the living conditions of the people aru being improved, and will continue to be improved so long as this Government remains in office. If these facts are properly presented to the people of other nations, I have no doubt that they will be influenced to migrate to Australia where their opportunities for advancement are so great. I congratulate the Minister for Immigration (Mr. Calwell) upon his statement. I hope that he will be able to give closer attention to this problem now that the war is ended, and that before long a flow of migrants to this country will commence, building up a population more commensurate with our vast territory and creating a better and safer Australia than we have had in the past. 4990 JLL New England 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT .- The statement of the Minister for Immigration (Mr. Calwell) on this matter raises some of the most important questions that face the Commonwealth to-day. The Minister dealt with several reasons regarding the necessity for an early increase of the population in this country. One of them was national defence. He pointed out that at present we have a population of approximately 2.5 persons to the square mile, and a coastline of some 12,000 miles to defend; but there are other important reasons why a large increase of the population of Australia is necessary if we are to maintain our existing standard of living or to effect an improvement of that standard. I do not propose to deal with defence requirements. That matter has been mentioned frequently, and its principles are self evident. On the other hand, the economic reasons are hot often put to the people. Some have been dealt with to-day by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies) who pointed out that there was an alarming trend in the distribution of age groups of the population of this country. The right honorable gentleman stated that the time would arrive when an extremely heavy burden of social services would have to be borne by the younger members of the community in order to support the increasing proportion of aged people, and that to counteract this tendency, it would be necessary, by means of immigration, to secure an increased number of young people. There is another reason why the population of this country should bo increased, and that is the necessity to provide expanding home markets for our primary and secondary products. Reverting for a moment to the population age groups, I point out that in 1933 there were approximately 1,822,000 people in Australia under fifteen years of age, and 1,672,000 over 45 years of age. In the next six years, the number of people under fifteen years dropped to 1,722,000- a fall of 100,000- whilst those in the over 45 years age group increased to 1,922,000 - an increase of 250,000. Should that deterioration continue, and there is every indication that it will, we shall very soon reach a most alarming position. As I have said, the older age groups will have to be carried by the younger generation. This may mean the complete breakdown of social service schemes introduced in this country by Australian governments for many years past. The figures which I have quoted are from a booklet Alarming Australia, by Mr. A. E. Mander. The publication also points out that in 1921 the number of persons in this country under five years of age was 600,000. In 1939, it had fallen to 560,000, a decrease of 40,000. However, in the over 60 years age group, the number increased from 410,000 in 1921 to 750,000 in 1939, an increase of 340,000. That trend is fraught with great danger to Australia. I shall deal now with the necessity for larger home markets in this country. For many years past, the people of the Commonwealth, particularly rural producers, have looked to the British market for the absorption of our surplus products. That market was regarded as being practically unlimited, and, in fact, in past years it has absorbed almost our entire exportable surplus, with the exception of wool and wheat. Surpluses of other commodities, up to 90 per cent, and even 97 per cent., have been absorbed by the British . market. Before the war Britain was a great creditor nation with an income from overseas investments of approximately £200,000,000 a year, but to-day its income from these sources, according to Dr. J. P. Belshaw's book The Future of Australian Export Industries is only £100,000,000 a year. That means that imports into Great Britain will be greatly reduced compared with pre-war figures. In addition, British farmers have increased their production during the war years by 50 per cent. Prior to the war it was estimated by British statisticians that the fa true rs of Groat Britain produced about 3>0 per cent, of the foodstuffs required by the people of the United Kingdom. During the war, under rationing and other controls, the proportion was lifted to about 80 per cent. It will not be possible, of course, for British farmers to continue the production df foodstuffs at that rate, but the President of the National Farmers Union, who was a member of the delegation which visited Australia last year, told me that.it was hoped that in the post-war years British farmers would produce almost, 60 per cent, of the foodstuffs required by the people of the United Kingdom. 4991 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - That would be a good thing. 4991 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - It would be a very good thing indeed, particularly if it forced us to receive more people into this country so that we could create a larger home market for our primary producers. It would be a good thing also because it would cause a better balance of population and manufacturing activities in both the Empire and the world. I wish to submit to honorable members a few facts regarding the distribution of exports from Australia in the years 1936-37 and 1938-39. In 1936-37 the United Kingdom purchased Australian exports valued at £A73,500,000. and representing 49.5 per cent, of the total exports from this country. Comparative figures for 1938-39 were £A.66,700,000 and 54.5 per cent. In that year European countries took 17.1 per cent, of our exports, and the remainder was distributed throughout the world. The exports to countries other than Britain consisted chiefly of wool and wheat. "We must face the fact that the products of our farms and grazing properties will need to be marketed in the years before us under conditions very different from those of the pre-war years. We must give consideration also to the Undoubted fact that the policy of the Government of Great Britain must be to take imports of primary products chiefly from countries which purchase British manufactures. If we develop large secondary industries in this country, as t hope we shall do, it is perfectly plain that we shall not be able to absorb such large quantities of manufactured goods as we have hitherto received from Great Britain. In the past Australia has exported ' substantial quantities ''of dairy products, including butter and eggs, to Great Britain but it is highly probable that in the days to come Britain will have to treat Denmark at least as favorably as Australia in regard to the importation of dairy products, because Danish imports of coal from Newcastle and other northern areas of Great Britain arc vital to the coal-mining industry of that part of England. One alarming fact that has been referred to in this debate, and on many other occasions in this House, is the decline of our birth-rate during the last 70 or 80 years. On this subject Mariner in his book Alarming Australia points out that only two babies are born in Australia nowadays for every five born in 'the middle of the last century. In 1880 our reproduction rate was 42.6 per thousand and in 1939 it was only 17.6 per 1,000. Those figures are alarming indeed and 'indicate the urgent necessity for us to do everything possible to increase the reproduction rate in Australia. Unless we can succeed in doing this we shall have to write ourselves down as a dying race. Therefore; as the Minister stated, we should do our best to attract young migrants. I consider that we ought to try our utmost to secure these young migrants from Great Britain and European countries. If we can do this, we shall probably increase our reproduction rate. To attract migrants, either young or old, however, we shall have to offer better conditions than those which exist in the countries from which wc hope to draw them. We shall have- to offer not only better living standards but also better housing than is provided by homes of galvanized iron in which people are fried in the summer and frozen in the winter. We shall have to ensure also that economic conditions here are a substantial improvement upon those of the old world. An obligation rests upon Australian governments, whether, they be composed of Labour, Liberal or Country party representatives, to do everything possible to prevent economic booms and depressions which have such a disastrous effect on every aspect of the lives of the people. The truth of this is illustrated in the most striking way by vital statistics relating to the birth-rate in Australia in the depression years. In 1926 our birth-rate was 22 per 1,000. It remained fairly stationary until 1930, when the depression _hit this country very hard. In the depth of the depression the birth-rate was as follows : - 1931, i8.~2 per 1,000; 1932, 16.9; and 1933, 16.'8. The lowest reproduction rate was touched in 1934, when the figure fell to 16.4 per 1,000. In those figures we see clearly how the economic conditions existing then affected people. I agree with the Minister, therefore, that in order to attract migrants to this country we must make living conditions as attractive as possible and we must also shelter our people from extreme variations in their economic circumstances. Another point which needs stressing, particularly to the present Government, is that housing must be provided for migrants. We shall have to ensure that the people who come here will have good houses in which to live. Recently I read a book issued by the Danish Government in connexion with agricultural conditions in Denmark. The publication was illustrated excellently and some of the pictures of the type of farm-houses provided for peasant proprietors and tenants in Denmark are of a standard which could be compared, in appearance at any rate, with houses that would cost from £1,500 to £2,000 in Australia. We must provide better houses for our people. The dwellings must have decent sized rooms. They must not be " dog boxes " which, in 20 or 30 years, will become slums. I consider that better housing will be a most important factor in attracting migrants to Australia. The Minister referred to the rate at which we could expect to receive migrants. I understood him to say that we might expect to increase our population by 70,000 migrants and 70,000 births annually. The honorable gentleman, therefore, appears to anticipate an increase of population of about 140,000 per annum. 4992 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - About 2 per cent. 4992 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - I regret that 1 wai not able, in the time at my disposal, to obtain statistics in relation to the flow of migrants to the United States over certain periods. But I understand that in the decade 1901 to 1910 the population of the United States of America increased by about 1,000,000 per annum. Whether this figure represented 2 per cent, of the population, I have not been able to ascertain, but I would have thought that it did, together with the natural increase. 4992 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - Ten million people entered the United States of America from Europe between 1900 and 1920, and the percentage was about 2 per cent. 4992 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - I should like to obtain more information of the absorption rate of other countries. The next question that must be faced is : Where are.our migrants to come from ? In the interesting work by W. D. Forsyth entitled The Myth of Open Spaces a good deal of information is furnished on this subject. The writer states that the great age of European migration has passed. He indicates that up to the end of the last century a very large proportion of the migrants to the new world was supplied by an exodus from the United Kingdom. In the period 1S46 to 1932 the countries of northern and western Europe contributed 24,000,000 migrants as against 23,700,000 from southern and eastern Europe. From the beginning of this century, however, there has been a change, for the majority of migrants since then have come from eastern and southern Europe rather than from Britain and northern Europe. This is a very interesting fact. It is interesting indeed to notice, also, that the flow of migrants from Germany only trickled after the last war. Since the rise of totalitarian governments in Europe migration from that and other totalitarian states has practically ceased. The only notable flow of migrants from European countries in recent years has. been from the eastern and southern parts of the continent. I hope that we shall be able to do something to induce the people of northern Europe and Great Britain to come to Australia. I would very much prefer people of British and Scandinavian blood to those from other pints of Europe. The next question that we must face relates to the industries in" which the migrants who come here will be employed. Forsyth has exploded the old idea that *here are great open spaces in which an almost illimitable number of people can be accommodated. "We know very well that the absorptive capacity of agriculture and other rural pursuits must be considered in relation to any migration policy. What has been happening in other parts of the world in this connexion has also been taking place here. Experience has shown us that the percentage of employable persons of a country employed in agricultural operations has been steadily declining for a good many years past. Dr. J. P. Belshaw in his booklet, The Future of the Australian Export Industries, points out that in the United States of America the percentage of working population engaged in primary production in 1871 was 53.S and that the figure had fallen, in 1931, to 22.5. By last year it had further declined to 17 per cent. Exactly the same thing occurred in Great Britain, but to an even greater degree, because its imports of cheap food had the effect of depressing the figures from 14.1 per cent, to 4.5 per cent. Even in Japan, the number of persons engaged in agriculture dropped from 73 per cent, in 1871 to 31 per cent, in 1936. It will be realized, therefore, that there is little scope in the primary industries of Australia for the absorption of many migrants. The people engaged in those industries will be mostly Australians. Then' there are the secondary industries. I believe that there are possibilities for inducing manufacturers in Great Britain and the United States of America to bring entire factory equipment to this country. That has occurred in the past. Many years ago Lysaght's Limited ' brought out capital assets and a considerable number of operatives, and established galvanized iron rolling mills. If other companies could be induced ' to adopt that course, we should be able to derive much advantage from the great industrial development which I believe will take place within the next fifteen years in the East, particularly in India if the Bombay plan of the Indian industrialists is put into operation. Under that plan, the proposal is for the Government of India- to expend £10,000,000,000 sterling in the next fifteen years. If the workers in such factories are to be given attractive living conditions, there must be decentralization away from the enormous aggregations of population in the metropolitan areas of Sydney and Melbourne and, to a less degree, the other capital cities. I entirely agree with the Minister's suggestion for the bringing of orphans to Australia. In this respect also, however, too great a limitation is proposed. The Minister has spoken only of British orphans. Is a child of two, three, or four years of age less likely to make a good Australian citizen because its parents happen to have been born on the Continent of Europe? 4993 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr Holt - The Minister's statement included European orphans. 4993 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - It would be difficult to get 50,000 orphan children in all Europe. 4993 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - I do not know whether or not the Minister speaks with authority. 4993 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - I am speaking on the advice of the officials in my London office, and of British officials, in regard to the availability of orphans in Great Britain, and the difficulty of ascertaining at this stage what orphans will be available in Europe, in view of the disturbed conditions. 4993 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - The research department of the Vatican probably is the bestauthority in Europe in regard to the economic conditions of those who profess the Roman Catholic faith throughout Europe. It might be a very good idea to endeavour to secure information from that, source. It is interesting to note that Mr. Darby, whom I understand is the Liberal candidate for the Manly State electorate, some years ago formed a small society in New South Wales for the purpose of bringing British orphans to this country before the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Spender) made in this House the suggestion quoted by the Minister. 4993 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - We invite the assistance and co-operation of religious bodies and other bodies similar to that formed by Mr. Darby. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - I recollect the Minister having stated that assistance was invited from chambers of commerce, chambers of manufactures, trade unions arid primary producer bodies. I am sure that, in such an important matter, all such bodies would be only too willing to assist. I should like to know how migrants are to be attracted to this country. The Government's proposals are not sufficiently attractive. It merely intends to offer free passages to British servicemen and their wives, and assisted passages to British civilians. There is no indication of the quantum of assistance, 'the total amount of the passage money, or the proportion which civilians will have to defray. 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - I said in my speech that I would give to the House the full details of an agreement with the British Government when it was finally reached. The honorable gentleman will be quite satisfied when the details are announced, should the agreement be made. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - That does not quite cover all that. I have said. The Minister has not denied that only assisted passages will be given to civilians. A distinction is to be drawn between servicemen and their wives, who are to be given free passages, and civilians, who are to have only assisted passages. 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - It is preference to servicemen. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - I agree, 1 have never previously heard the Minister preach that doctrine. 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - I am wondering why thé honorable gentleman is attacking it. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - I am not attacking it, but am simply putting the constructive proposition that either this or any other Government which wants migrants to come to Australia will have to make the conditions very attractive. One attraction would be free passages. 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - Our idea was that an adult civilian should pay only £10, and a child over fourteen years of age only £5, and that children under fourteen years of age should be brought out free. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - .There is a wealth of meaning in that expression " only " which the Minister has used, when the prospec tive migrant has not money but " only " his strength and courage. The Government ought to be prepared to grant freepassage's to persons who> .given the opportunity, will make .good Australian citizens. 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - The shipping companies want hundreds of pounds for passages. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - The Commonwealth should follow the example of the Canadian Govern.ment. which, in periods of large migration, provided accommodation for migrants at the ports of departure as well as at the port of reception. The Government will have to be prepared also to extend to migrants who come to this country every social benefit that anyAustralian receives. 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - That matter has been covered in the proposed agreement. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - I take it that any men who come here will receive the same rate of pay as an Australian while out of a job? 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - They will be eligible for all social security benefits. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - Such pronouncements ought to be made to the world. 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - As I have said, immediately agreement is reached with the British Government on some outstanding points, an announcement will be made simultaneously in the two countries. The matters outstanding are in course of negotiation, and it is hot desirable that premature or unilateral announcements should be made. The British Government might consider that it was wrong of us to discuss without its agreement a matter upon which We are negotiating. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - The final point that I put to the Minister is that, if migrants are to be sought iri Britain br Europe, the Government will have to undertake a very heavy publicity campaign. 4994 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - That matter has been covered. 4994 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - Information should be furnished in regard to the benefits which migrants will receive. Views of our country should be publicized, and also its economic conditions, so that migrants will realize that their prospects in this new land would be better than those iri their own country. 4995 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - We are incurring expenditure upon making the Australian people migration minded so that they will treat migrants decently when they come to Australia. 4995 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr ABBOTT - That aspect has been discussed previously in this House. I agree with the necessity for that. However, I draw attention to the fact that the Minister said in his speech that there were only three centres where there is a serious alien problem - Shepparton, in Victoria, Leeton, in New South Wales, and the northern canefields area of Queensland - therefore^ it cannot be very great. I agree that Australians should be educated to realize that, by adopting an anti-social attitude to the newcomers, they are taking very effective action to cause people of other nationalities to congregate in communities of their own. Apparently, that trouble is not encountered in the United States of America, to which country there has been tremendous migration from all over Europe, because migrants of foreign extraction blend with the American people. We shall have to blend them with our community if we wish to make Australia a great nation. 4995 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - Our people have had a bias even against British migrants. 4995 KRI Boothby 0 0 SHEEHY, Thomas Mr SHEEHY .- The vi tal matter of migration has always been a problem to Australia. In what way can we attract migrants;, and induce those who come here to remain? The Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Harrison) has- described as a negative policy the plan enunciated by the Minister for Immigration (Mr. Calwell). I regard it as progressive on very many points. The endeavour is to be made to bring to this country servicemen from Britain and child orphans of the present war. I have been asked by some members of the British Fleet about their possibilities should they decide to settle in this country. They have pointed out what befell some migrants from the Old Country who came to this country several years ago, and desired to know whether we could promise them better conditions than they had had in their own country. I assured them that this country had wide spaces, and a reasonable set-up which would enable them to work out their own salvation. In regard to child migration, I have been concerned as to where and how a large number of children would be reared were they brought to this country. If we could place child migrants in homes they would receive the home training that is essential in their development. I dread the thought of child migrants being herded in institutions in large numbers. If they are to be brought up properly as young Australians, they must be placed in individual homes where they will receive the care and control which is essential to their well-being. I attribute the decline of the birth-rate largely to the lack of social security for young people. If that security could be ensured, I have no doubt that the birthrate would increase. The Commonwealth Year-Booh for 1940 contains some striking figures regarding immigration. In the period from 1931 to 1935 the total number of arrivals was 239,323 and the total number of departures was 250,209. That clearly shows that something is radically wrong in this country, because in those years we failed to retain our population. In 1935 the arrivals numbered 55,416 and the departures totalled 55,705. The honorable member for Wentworth (Mr. Harrison) suggested that market gardeners should be induced to migrate to Australia, and that carpenters also should be encouraged to come here so that homes could be provided for the newcomers ; but there were ample facilities in Australia for the building of houses during the depression years, when the birth-rate was lower than at any other period. Therefore we need more than market gardeners and carpenters to ensure an increase of population. In the course of his speech the Minister for Immigration (Mr. Calwell) said - On the other side of the picture, the department will approach its problem from the basis that it is economically unsound to bring migrants to the country until there is continuous employment for them, and, secondly, proper housing and other social amenities to help them to fit themselves quickly into the Australian way of life. The honorable member for Wentworth stated that, if we had to wait until those amenities were provided prospective settlers would be too old to migrate. I direct attention to an interesting leading article published in the Adelaide News, of the 3rd August last, regarding immigration. I stated in my maiden speech in this House that it would be wrong to bring large numbers of migrants to Australia if we did not have means of housing them or providing them with employment. Mr. Grose, the President of the South Australian Chamber of Manufactures, stated that I was a good Labour man, because I supported the isolationist policy of the Labour party. I am wondering whether Mr. Grose read the article to which I have just referred. It stated, interalia- It is eminently reasonable to say that the " healthy new citizens " sought by Australia in large numbers shall not be brought here until the prospect of continuity of decent employment has been opened for them, and until there are houses for them to live in. Without these essentials to a fair' standard of life, the chances of evolving "good Australians by adoption " would seem to bc remote. I concur in that statement because it is practically identical with what I said in my maiden speech. The article proceeded: - It is even more reasonable to say that until satisfactory employment is provided for Australia's ex-servicemen and civilians, and houses built for them, migration must take second place. [ hope that Mr. Grose will take the trouble to read that extract from a leading article published in one of Adelaide's leading newspapers. The statement is not in conformity with the argument advanced by the honorable member for Wentworth. It is still my firm conviction that we cannot expect migrants to settle in Australia unless we provide sufficient amenities to attract them. 4996 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr Holt - How were the western States of America populated? 4996 KRI 0 0 SHEEHY, Thomas Mr SHEEHY - What I am particularly concerned about is the full development of Australia. When I have helped in some small measure to solve the problems that confront my own country, I shall consider what has been done elsewhere. A policy adopted in another country is not necessarily suitable for Australia. The honorable member for Wentworth has repeatedly demanded that prompt action be taken in order to provide houses for on r own people, but if 70,000 migrants were brought to this country annually the housing problem would become much more acute than it now is. I prefer migrants from the British Isles, because the nation that supplied the gallant Anzacs who fought in the last two wars has built up its population from British stock. If we are to attract migrants from the Old Country, they must be guaranteed, social -security and better opportunities than they have enjoyed in the past. By adopting a migration policy along those lines Australia should be able to increase its population considerably before many years have passed. 4996 009MC Fawkner 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr HOLT .- My comments will be prompted by a desire to offer constructive suggestions. All honorable members agree that immigration is one of the most important matters which the Parliament could discuss, and it is encouraging to note the reflection on the part of the Government of the importance of the subject in the recent formation of a special Ministry to deal with the problem. The Government has.. appointed as Minister one of .its more energetic and capable members, and we hope to experience from him a drive in the execution of a progressive immigration policy which will carry out the desires which I am sure all honorable members have for the populating of Australia by elements additional to those which we can provide by the best Australian immigrant of all, that born of Australian parents. But I find myself somewhat dismayed at the outset by the attitude of mind which seems to have been indicated by the Minister, apparently reflecting Government policy, and which has been endorsed largely by those who have supported him on the Government, side. I refer to his own statement and the reference of his own department to the problem. He said that it would approach it from the basis . that it is economically unsound to bring migrants to the country until there is continuous employment and proper housing and other social amenities to enable them to fit themselves quickly into the Australian way of life. I believe that the Minister and the Government are frightening themselves with shadows. Surely we have the experience of other countries, and indeed of our own country, to encourage us to adopt a much bolder and more progressive policy than that. Gibbon, writing in about 1780, mentioned in his Decline and- Fall of the Roman Empire that the population of Great Britain at that time was about 8,000,000. That is less than three lifetimes ago, and the population of the British Isles to-day is nearer 45,000,000 than any other figure. The United States of America had a population of about 25,000,000 in 1850, but to-day the number of its people has grown to about 140,000,000. In Australia our population increased from nothing in 178S to 1,000,000 in 1861. Since 1861, the population has multiplied sevenfold in less than a century. In the last 40 years, 82 per cent, of the growth of our population has resulted from the advent of new Australian babies. Honorable members are unnecessarily dismayed by fears which may never be realized. As in Great Britain, the United States of America and Australia, whether the new arrival is born in the country or whether he comes from some other part of the world, the result is the same. They are able to create opportunities for the employment of other persons, and to stimulate a demand for goods and services which, in turn, provide opportunities for themselves. "When the United States of America were being settled, the people who did the pioneering did not look for amenities already provided. They were prepared to risk their capital in order to obtain greater rewards. They were prepared to hazard their lives, if necessary, for opportunities which did not exist in the places from which they came. The Australian Government, by its timid approach to the matter of immigration, may defeat its own purpose. There has been talk of the need to provide houses for immigrants. I believe it to bt1 generally true that men and women who have the spirit, to embark on the hazards of migration are prepared to make the be.=t of the opportunities they find in the country to which they go. Therefore, we may expect those who come to Australia to build their own homes, and to play their full part in developing the country's resources. In 1923, in Greater .Melbourne alone, no fewer than 10,000 homes were built, and as many more were built in the following year. Now, the Government is talking of a housing policy which aims at providing 20,000 homes a year throughout the whole of Australia, when private enterprise in one city alone provided more than that number in the space of two years. I decry the Government's craven approach to the problem of immigration. Let us consider what has been done in regard to the rehabilitation of ex-members of the forces, and what remains to be done. In comparison, the absorption of 70,000 migrants a year, beginning in two year's time, appears to be a mere trifle. There are no fewer than 600,000 service men and women to be absorbed, and about 700,000 civilians engaged in war occupations. Their absorption represents a tremendous undertaking, but we are not dismayed. "We have no doubt that it can be done. Already, 300,000 persons formerly in the services have been absorbed into civil life. If the Government is concerned about finding employment for migrants during the ^period immediately after their arrival, I recommend that it consider what was achieved in the past under the nomination system under which immigrants were nominated by people already in Australia who were prepared, if necessary, to find jobs for them or to support them until they found jobs for themselves. In this way, a large number of migrants could be absorbed without imposing an undue strain on the economy of the nation. I suggest that the system should not be confined to immigrants from Great Britain. There are people in Australia of foreign extraction with friends in European countries who may be willing to migrate to Australia. There are also people here of British descent who know others in European countries whom they might be prepared to nominate. If we are to induce immigrants to come here in large numbers we must make conditions attractive. Now that the war ' is over there will be competition for such migrants as are prepared to leave Europe. All the dominions will be seeking immigrants, and probably the South American countries and some of the African States as well. In discussions on this subject a good deal of emphasis has been laid by. honorable members opposite on measures designed to provide social security. Most of the more highly developed countries, including Great Britain, have social security schemes of their own, although their value has probably been reduced during the war because of inflation. Usually, the schemes are on a contributory basis. The Overseas Settlement Board discussed this problem in 1938, and recommended that in the dominions where social security schemes were established, or were being developed, there should be an assurance of reciprocity for the benefit of immigrants. I understand, from a reply given by the Minister for Immigration to-day to the honorable member for New England (Mr. Abbott), that the Government proposes to introduce such a scheme here. However, important as that may be to the prospective migrant, I believe that he will be far more interested in opportunity than in social security, as we understand the phrase in this country. He will be more concerned to find conditions under which he may, by his own efforts, gain an adequate reward for his energy, enterprise and resource. In that lugard, we are under a heavy handicap in Australia at the present time. If he is sufficiently inquisitive the prospective migrant will find that Australia is still the most heavily taxed country in the English-speaking world, and, judging by recent ministerial statements, it is likely to remain so for a considerable time. If we are to attract migrants we must offer conditions which will enable them to better themselves and their families. I turn now to another reference in the Minister's speech in which he indicated a possible reluctance on the part of the Government of Great Britain to permit substantial numbers of people to come to Australia. The Minister based that fear on the ground that Great Britain has its own serious population problem. It is typical of British people and those who speak for them in their governments, that although this aspect is clearly recognized, it has not been allowed to dissuade them from pursuing a progressive policy of migration for their own people. In this connexion I refer first to the following statement in the report of the Oversea Settlement Board of May, 1938 : - It can no longer bc assumed as axiomatic that the migration of large numbers of persons from the United Kingdom to the Dominions is in the interests of the United Kingdom, if those interests could be considered in isolation from those of the Dominions. Even now, it is only from the point of view of the strengthening of the Empire as a whole that the encouragement of migration from the United Kingdom can be justified. The resumption of migration on a large scale could, unless the present population trends are checked, diminish still further the future population of the United Kingdom. In our opinion, however, 110 merely theoretical calculation of the consequences of population movements should be allowed to affect migration policy. Then we have the more recent statement made in the House of Lords on the 24th May, 1944, by Viscount Cranborne. the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs. His statement is quoted in an appendix to the Minister'3 statement. Viscount Cranborne said- Wc have made it abundantly clear that, notwithstanding the fact that our own population in these islands is tending, perhaps, rather to decrease than to increase, yet, on .broad Imperial grounds we do feel that we should encourage and assist, as far as is practicable, i inter-Imperial migration if that is desired by the Dominion Governments themselves; and, of course, on the assumption - the very necessary assumption - that those Governments of the other Empire countries are prepared to make their own contribution to schemes of assisted migration. And so we find that despite their- own serious population problem, successive Governments in Great Britain have consistently adhered to the view that it is in the best interests of the Empire as a whole that people who desire to migrateto the- Dominions, which obviously areundeveloped and underpopulated, should be given Government encouragement to do so. I come now to an important phase of this subject which the Minister developed in his statement, namely the attitude of the Australian people to immigrants. The Minister rightly emphasized theneed for.e. change of attitude on the part of many people in this country if the immigrant is to feel welcome, and if as the result of the friendly atmosphere and hospitable treatment .meted out by Australian citizens he is to be encouraged in turn to recommend' his friends- and' relatives to come to this, country.. I find! lt somewhat difficult to understand this curiously intolerant attitude to people of other countries who settle here. Possibly it is due to the fact that hitherto we have been a homogeneous people. We are still 98 per cent. British, and 87 per cent, of our people were born in Australia. Our population is nearly 100 per cent, of the white race. Perhaps, due to these circumstances, there has developed amongst an uncomfortably large proportion of our people, an hostility to foreigners and even to British migrants who come here. There is no need to go into detail, but it is within our experience that that atmosphere has existed in the past and does exist to-day. In some quarters it is probably stronger to-day than ever. If migrants from certain areas in Europe tend to settle in this country in communities of their own nationality, I do not think that we can altogether disclaim all responsibility for that state of affairs. Naturally if we do not absorb them into our community in a congenial way they will turn to the company of people with the same national affiliations, habits, and ideas as their own; but that that is not necessarily the case the experience of the United States of America has shown. That country has been able to absorb very large numbers of the people of all other countries. It has not. merely absorbed them, but, as my leader pointed out earlier, the events of the war have revealed a unity on the part of the American people, on the field of battle and in factories and industry generally, which enabled that country to produce such remarkable national and industrial results. The proportion of people of alien stock in this country and our alien problems of Australia are insignificant contrasted with those of other countries. 4999 BV8 0 0 CALWELL, Arthur Mr Calwell - They are non-existent. 4999 009MC 0 0 HOLT, Harold Mr HOLT - For that reason, it is all the more remarkable to find so many people in this country displaying hostility, intolerance, and bitterness to people from other lands. ' I hope that the plans which the Government has indicated for creating a different state of mind on the Dart of those Australians who react in this way, will prove successful. I hope, too, that we shall be able to display that tolerance which is a typical characteristic of the British race to those people who hazard their future in coming to our shores, and who, if accepted in the community, can add so much to our national progress and production. It is not necessary at this stage to go into details, or to dwell unduly on points which other speakers have already covered, and so, I come back to the point which I made earlier, and ask the Government not to be too fearful in this matter. I feel that we are at a stage in our national history when an opportunity which is only rarely given to a country is presented to us. The world is disturbed and will take years to settle down. People in European countries particularly have had their homes and industries destroyed. They have developed bitternesses, one against the other, because of factional disagreements as the result of war pressures borne upon them. Because so many people in all parts of the world will be looking to a future in which they will be able to rebuild their lives, homes and industries, an opportunity exists that Australia should not lose. We should be able to-day to attract people that through the years of insecurity have longed for a country where they would not be subjected to the same hazards and destruction as they have experienced twice in a lifetime in their own lands. So I ask the Government to strike while the iron is hot. I have every confidence that once migrants come to Australia, with the statesmanship that I hope exists in this chamber, we shall be able to provide opportunities for their absorption. I have no doubt that if Ave can cope successfully with the very much greater problem of rehabilitating hundreds of thousands of our own men and women, we shall be able to cope successfully with the absorption of about 70,000 immigrants a year. Do not let the fears, particularly of industrial workers expressed through their trade union representatives, weigh unduly because to-day is the day of opportunity for Australia as far as immigration is concerned. If We neglect the opportunity it may not occur again in our lifetime. Debate (on motion by Mr. Martens) adjourned. 5000 adjournment 5000 5000 A48 Macquarie ALP Prime Minister and Treasurer 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr CHIFLEY . - I move - That the House do now adjourn. The House will meet next Wednesday at 3 p.m.I shall give due notice to honorable members as to when we shall resume sitting four days weekly. Question resolved in the affirmative. 5000 papers The following papers were presented : - Commonwealth Public Service Act - Appointment - Department of the Interior - A. W. Bazley. Regulations - Statutory Rules 1945, Nos. 118, 124. Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired for - Administrative purposes - Howard Springs, near Darwin, Northern Territory. Commonwealth purposes - Bankstown, New South Wales. Bundaberg, Queensland. Charters Towers, Queensland. Drouin, Victoria. Marrangaroo, New South Wales. Nudgee, Queensland. Oaklands, South Australia. Townsville, Queensland. Whyalla, South Australia. Postal purposes - Belalie North, South Australia. Bordertown, South Australia. Croydon, Victoria. Deepdene, Victoria. Melbourne, Victoria. Muswellbrook, New South Wales. Stockport, South Australia. National Security Act - National Security (Agricultural Aids) Regulations - Order - Hay, straw and chaff (Victoria) (No. 3). National Security (Capital Issues) RegulationsOrder - Exemption. National Security (Egg Industry) Regulations - Order - No. 12. National Security (Emergency Control) Regulations - Orders - Papua and New Guinea (Administration) (No. 5). Papua and New Guinea (Detention of native personnel). National Security (Pood Control) Regulations - Order - No. 22. National Security (General) Regulations - Orders - Control of hydrographical publications - Revocation. Chronometers and chronometer watches - Revocation. Prohibited places - Revocation. Prohibition of acquisition and sale of censored envelopes - Revocation. Prohibition of non-essential production (No. 18). Restrictions on new manufactures - Exemption. Taking possession of land, &c. (16). Use of land. National Security (Land Transport) Regulations - Orders - No. 21. Rail travel (Priority booking) - Revocation. Revocation of certain road transport orders (dated 7th August, 1945). National Security (Rationing) Regulations - Orders - Nos. 100, 101. National Security (Supplementary) Regulations - Statement of Australian Banking Statistics for the five quarters ended 30th June, 1945. Regulations - Statutory Rules 1945, Nos. 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 131, 132, 133. Naval Defence Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1945, Nos. 126, 127. Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory (Administration) Act - Ordinance - 1945 - No. 6 - Firearms Registration. Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act- Ordinance - 1945 - No. 8 - Industrial Board. Regulations - 1945 - No. 1 (Meat Ordinance ) . 5000 22:23:00 House adjourned at 10.23 p.m. 5000 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS The following answers to questions were circulated: - 5000 5000 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr Chifley - On the 26th July, the Leader of the Australian Country party (Mr. Fadden) asked a question upon notice relating to the number of wives of members of the Australian and American Forces awaiting transport. I now inform the right honorable member that particulars have now come to hand from the United States of America authorities in Australia which enable me to furnish a reply to part 2 of the question. I have been advised that at present there are approximately 2,000 Australian wives of United States military personnel who have already obtained visas and are awaiting transportation. Between 1,500 and 2,000 more have completed the visa requirements or are expected to do so within the next few months. The rate of issuance of visas to these persons is dependent primarily on developments in the transportation situation. The American Consulate General at Sydney has expressed the opinion that there remain in Australia between 8,000 and 8,500 wives and fiancées of United States military personnel who will ultimately desire to proceed to the United States of America. 5001 5001 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr Chifley - On the 4th May, the honorable member for Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron)sked the following questions, upon notice: - How many (a) official and (b) semiofficial journals or periodicals are published by Commonwealth Departments? What are their names? How many persons are employed on their preparation? The following statement contains the information sought by the honorable member: - 5002 5002 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr Chifley - On the 1st Augustine honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) asked a question relating to- certain educational films said to have been acquired by the Royal Australian Air Force. I now desire to inform the honorable member that the Australian National Film Board has already taken action to ascertain what films of a documentary, educational, or fact character are available in Australia, with a view to- having such of them as are suitable added to the Central Film Library, which, the board is establishing. On the completion of these inquiries, the board proposes to issue a catalogue of all such films to enable interested persons and organizations to have access to them. In the course of these inquiries, any such films which may have been acquired by the Royal Australian Air Force and by any other government department or agency will come under review. 5002 5002 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr Chifley y - On the 2nd August the honorable member for Denison (Dr. Gaha) asked a question relating to the search for natural oil in Australia. Supplementing the reply which I then made, I now inform the honorable member that this matter has received the consideration and attention which its importance merits. Dr. H. G. Raggatt, Director of the Commonwealth Mineral Resources Survey, accompanied by Mr. J. H. Rayner Senior Geophysicist of the -Survey, are at present in North America for the purpose of investigating amongst other matters, modern methods employed in the search for oil. In addition, Mr. H. J. Cook, the supervisor of the Lakes Entrance Oil Project, has just returned from the United States of America after completing investigations into horizontal drilling and other matters related to oil search and production. Further, the Government has decided as part of a long-range plan that the Commonwealth Mineral Resources Survey would carry out, as a continuing function, regional and geological mapping and scout drilling to further the search for oil in Australia. This is consistent with the policy followed by most other countries, but such work had not previously been undertaken on a planned basis by any Commonwealth authority. Very substantial government moneys have been expended in the search for oil and expenditure is .continuing at Lakes Entrance, and Nelson, near Portland in Victoria, also consideration is now being given to the question of providing further moneys to prosecute the search in the Kimberleys in "Western Australia. In addition, close attention is also being given to the position in Papua. It will be gathered from the foregoing that the Government is fully determined to keep abreast of world developments in the search for oil, and to ensure that such search is prosecuted with the utmost vigour, aided by the best technical resources. 5003 5003 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr Chifley - On the 24th July the honorable member for Moreton (Mr. Francis) asked a question relating to the expenditure on medical and health research. I now inform the honorable member that the figures mentioned in the Medical Journal of Australia, viz., £682,849 (including £115,888 contributed by sections of industry) on scientific and industrial research and £30,000 on medical research, do not appear to support the statement quoted by the honorable member in the first part of his question. It is not known how the comparison of expendi tures published in the Medical Journal of Australia was arrived at. The Commonwealth Government is at the present time considering various proposals concerning the future of medical research in Australia. The importance of developing such research is fully recognized. 5003 5003 A48 ALP 1 0 CHIFLEY, Ben Mr Chifley - On the 20th June the honorable member for New England (Mr. Abbott) asked a question without notice relating to certain projects submitted by the Government of New South "Wales for the settlement of ex-servicemen on the land. I now inform the honorable member that several of the proposals include areas in which wheat might be grown. Before it can be decided, however, whether wheat licences will be issued, the nature of the proposed farms will have to he examined. Detailed information in regard to these proposals has yet to be made available by the Government of New South Wales. It is possible that the areas include farms already registered for wheat-growing. With regard to the whole milk trade to which the honorable member referred it appears likely that of the 21 proposals for settlement received to date from New South Wales one only would involve an area in which extensive participation in the whole milk trade might be possible. It is understood, however, that New South Wales will be submitting a large number of additional proposals, and the position will be reviewed when these are received. 5003 5003 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - On the 24th July last, the honorable member for Wilmot (Mr. Guy) asked a question without notice concerning coupon rating of household linen. The honorable member suggested that sheeting was in good supply in some cities and that the coupon rating should be lowered. The Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following answer: - It is possible that reasonably good supplies of sheeting are held by some traders; the Rationing Commission in reaching any conclusion regarding an easing of the coupon rating, however, has necessarily to be guided by the overall supply position both in Australia and in prospect for future importations. An assessment along these lines does not at present favour any reduction in these coupon ratings; the position is under continual scrutiny, however, and an easing will be made as soon as there appears reasonable assurance of a supply of sheeting capable of meeting the increased demand which lowered ratings would be likely to foster. 5004 5004 F4T 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr Fadden asked the Minister representing the Minister -for Supply and Shipping, upon notice - What are the respective values, to tha latest available date, of goods sold by the Disposals Commission in each State: (a) by public auction, and (b) by private treaty? What precautions are taken to fix a reserve and to ensure that an adequate number of quotations is obtained on any sales by private treaty? How many public auction sales have been held in each State? Will he consider making all future sales by public auction after fixing an adequate reserve? What is the approximate value of goods held for disposal? 5004 JOM ALP 1 0 BEASLEY, John Mr Beasley - The Minister for Supply and Shipping has supplied the following answers: - Because of the widespread nature of the commission's activities and the number of agencies employed, it is not possible to give a comprehensive breakdown of the values of disposals in each State, nor to indicate specifically the value of goods sold by public auction and by private treaty respectively. However, the total value of disposals by all methods up to 31st May was £4,853,000. Subject to the commission's policy of offering goods to Commonwealth and State Government instrumentalities having been observed, surplus goods are then offered for public sale - where practicable by distribution through trade channels by arrangement with recognized trade organizations and at prices fixed or based on the Prices Commissioner's determinations; sale by public tender; sale by auction; sale by private treaty. Wherever possible, sales are conducted in the first three ways, and sales by private treaty are resorted to only where that is the only practical course. The most stringent instructions have been issued by the Commonwealth Disposals Commission in regard to sales by private treaty, and the circumstances and extent of such sales arc under continuous review. 5004 5004 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr Abbott asked the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice - Will aircraft maintaining overseas services with the Commonwealth and landing at more than one Australian airport be permitted to carry freight and passengers between Commonwealth airports? If not how is it proposed to overcome the difficulty of reciprocal treatment towards Australian aircraft operating to overseas countries wanting to carry passengers and freight from ports within the countries to other ports therein? 5004 KCM ALP 1 0 DRAKEFORD, Arthur Mr Drakeford - The position in regard to international air services is that neither the Convention on International Civil Aviation nor the Interim Agreement on International Civil Aviation drawn up at Chicago last December provides any rights for regular international air services to traverse or land in other countries. The rights for regular international air services are covered in two supplementary agreements, namely, the International Air Services Transit Agreement and the International Air Transport Agreement. The former grants to other States party to the agreement the rights of transit and landing for non-traffic purposes. The Transport Agreement confers rights for the air services to pick up and set down passengers. In that agreement, however, there is a reservation in section 4 that each contracting State may refuse permission for aircraft of other contracting States to take on in its territory loading destined for another point within its territory. The Commonwealth Government is now party to the Interim Agreement and action is in hand to make Australia party also to the Transit Agreement. As indicated previously, neither of these agreements authorizes international air services to pick up or set down passengers in Australia. If and when any bilateral agreement is being negotiated to permit foreign air services to carry passengers into or from Australia, the question whether such service will he permitted to carry local traffic between points in Australia will have to be considered in light of the circumstances then applying. It is realized that should the Australian Government decide to reserve this right of cabotage the other government concerned might do likewise and that possibility will have to be taken into consideration by the Government before reaching its decision. 5005 5005 KNX 0 0 HARRISON, Eric Mr Harrison asked the Minister for Air, upon notice - Will he have inquiries made into the conditions under which aircrew personnel are employed at 6S.D., Dubbo? Is it a fact that the living quarters are untenable, the food barely edible, and the hours of duty 7.30 a.m. to 6 p.m. with a 40 minute luncheon break? On what duties are the aircrew personnel engaged? Will he arrange for medical inspection of the sheds wherein these men are employed and will he inquire concerning lighting, dust, and fumes from engines and paint? What mechanical assistance is available for the movement of heavy equipment Has the commanding officer refused to meet aircrew members; if so, for what reason? Did the personnel hold a meeting a short time agoand weremu ti nous suggestions made at that meeting? Have any grievances been communicated to the commanding officer? If so, what were the grievances, and what action has been taken to remove the cause of any such grievances? Are aircrew personnel at Dubbo awaiting further flying training, or have they been perma nently grounded? Are these members amongst those who have been given the option of remuster to ground stag jobs or discharge? How many aircrew personnel are there at Dubbo? How many applications for (a) remuster, and (b) discharge, are still awaiting consideration? On what date was the earliest of these applications lodged? When is it anticipated finality will be reached in the consideration of these applications? 5005 KCM ALP 1 0 DRAKEFORD, Arthur Mr Drakeford - The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows: - Inquiries have been made, the replies to the following questions being based on the results of such inquiries. No. Living quarters comprise permanent huts, prefabricated huts and tents, the conditions in all classes of quarters being satisfactory. The quality of the food supply and as cooked is quite edible and wholesome, it being the same as provided in other Royal Australian Air Force camps. The hours of duty are from 7.30 a.m. to 5.30 p.m., the luncheon interval being 50 minutes. Wednesday afternoons are set aside for sport. Aircrew personnel, whilst at No.6 Stores Depot, were employed on various types of duty, including normal stores duty, as well as technical duties. Those showing any aptitude for a particular type of employment were employed in sections such as motor transport section, maintenance shops, orderly rooms (on clerical duties) and the like. The depot buildings are entirely satisfactory, while there has been no discrimination whatever between conditions under which aircrew personnel and the permanent depot staff have worked. Lighting is satisfactory. Excessive dust has not been experienced, there are no stationary engines in any building capable of causing fumes, while in certain shops (e.g., carpenter's) each machine has an independent electric drive and all the shavings and dust are removed by proper extractor installation. Mechanical means of lifting heavy equipment are as follows: - Five 5-ton travelling electric cranes; two 5-ton mobile cranes; seventeen 1-ton monorail hoists; one fork lift truck; two lister auto trucks. For the movement of equipment, an adequate number of lorries, trucks, and trailers is available. No. The Commanding Officer has no knowledge whatever of any meeting at which mutinous suggestions were made. Grievances were communicated to the Commanding Officer in connexion with four types of matters, namely - Accommodation. - Some aircrew complained because they were required to live in tents. The Commanding Officer informed them that tents were the only accommodation available and that members could live in them quite comfortably if they followed the instructions which had been issued regarding their care and maintenance. Messing. - Some time ago, complaints were made regarding the meat which was alleged to be insufficient in quantity and poor in quality. The contract for the supply of meat had been let to a butcher who carried on business in Orange. The contract was transferred to a Dubbo butchering company as from 1st July, 1945, and no grounds for complaint now exist. Inability to continue aircrew training. - The Commanding Officer explained the position to aircrew trainees and stated that the suspension of aircrew training was unavoidable. An Air Board Order was published giving all members the right to elect discharge, remuster to a ground mustering, or transfer to the Army or Navy. The position was explained to all aircrew members and they duly elected the course they desired to pursue. Leave. - Aircrew members stated that they had not been granted leave prior to being posted to the depot. Leave was granted to all such members as soon as practicable. All of the partially trained aircrew personnel have been permanently grounded by reason of the suspension of basic aircrew training. The only exception made was in respect of a few Navigators (Wireless Operators). Yes, During the early part of July, 265 aircrew personnel were stationed at Dubbo. By the 21st July, 1945, all applications (except two only - those personnel being temporarily medically- unfit and undergoing hospital treatment) had been finalized. Members were given 28 days within which to make their application. All applications were received and forwarded to Air Force Head-quarters by 9th July. All applications (except in the case of the two members referred to at (12) were finalized by the 21st July. 5006 5006 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - On the 3rd July, the honorable member for Moreton directed a question to my colleague the honorable Minister for Commerce and Agriculture in connexion with payment of a subsidy on eggs. In a reply dated the 18th July, it was indicated that a special committee had been established by the Government for the purpose of considering application from primary industries for financial assistance. As reference to a special committee may not be clearly understood, I desire to advise that such a committee was intended to apply to the Price Stabilization Committee to which matters involving subsidy payments are referred by the Commonwealth Prices Commissioner. Any representations which the Poultry Farmers' Association of New South "Wales may desire to make in the future for the granting of a subsidy to the poultry industry should therefore be addressed to the Prices Commissioner. 5006 5006 JLL 0 0 ABBOTT, Joseph Mr Abbott asked the Acting Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, upon notice - Will he obtain and supply the latest figures which the Australian Wheat Board is in a position to provide concerning (a) the quantity of wheat from No. 7 Pool which has been exported, and (b) the average price f.o.b. Australian ports for such wheat. What decision has been made by the Government with regard to the requests of wheat-growers' organizations that the first advance for the 1945-40 harvest be increased to 5s. 2d. per bushel? 5006 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows: - (a) To 31st July, 1945, 313,000 bushels; (6) 7s. lid. bulk. It has been decided that the decision to pay an advance of 4s. 3d. a bushel bagged at growers' sidings, which is roughly equivalent to 5s. 2d. a bushel at ports, will be maintained. 5006 F4T 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr Fadden asked the Acting Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, upon notice - What were the overseas prices paid for wheat in the various pools? What was the price paid by the Government for wheat sold for stock feed? Does the Government intend to make up the difference to farmers? 5006 F4U ALP 1 0 FORDE, Francis Michael Mr Forde - The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows: - The average export price of wheat in the various pools was - No. 1, 2s. 7.9d. bulk basis; No. 2, 3s. 9.4d.; No. 4, 4s. 4.8d.; No. 5, 4s. 6.2d.; No. 0, 5s. 9d.; Nos. 7 and 8; sales in these pools are not yet completed. No arrangement existed for early pools. A subsidy of fid. a bushel to allow sales below the board's price was paid from 1942. With an increase in prices occurring it was decided to increase the subsidy so as to bring the return from feed wheat to the level of other sales in the same pool. The present arrangement is equitable. It is not considered that either high or low prices abroad should be taken as indicating the reasonable prices for sales within Australia. 5006 5006 F4T 0 0 FADDEN, Arthur William Mr Fadden asked the Minister representing the Acting Minister for Health, upon notice - With reference to the information given on the 24th May that, in costing a prescription, 1 lb will not be regarded as being the equivalent of 12 ounces, how many ounces will be regarded as being the equivalent of 1 lb. In costing a prescription composed of wet or dry drugs, will the chemist or dispensary who dispenses pharmaceutical benefits under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Act be entitled to demand that to the true cost of such drugs a minimum of 45 per centum shall be added? If not, what will be the minimum percentage? Has the Prices Commissioner authorized pharmacists, in the current Australian Drug Tariff, in costing a prescription of wet or dry drugs to add to the fixed wholesale cost a minimum of 45 per centum? If not, what is the percentage? What percentage will be allowed by the Prices Commissioner to be added by pharmacists to the wholesale costs of tablets and pills dispensed under the act? (a) Does the Prices Commissioner authorize pharmacists to add 50 per centum to the wholesale cost of containers in costing a prescription, (b) what percentage will be allowed under the act!' What recording fee will be allowed topharmacists in costing- a1 prescription containing a dangerous drug? (a) Has the Pharmaceutical Service Guild asked the Government to enter into a five years' contract in the agreement between the two bodies; (b) for what period will such agreement operate? What will be (a) the minimum dispensing fee, (b) the maximum dispensing fee, and (c) the average- dispensing fee for prescriptions dispensed under the scheme? How much was placed on the Estimates for pharmaceutical benefits for the year ended the 30th June, 1945, and what is the estimate for the current financial year? 5007 KHL ALP 1 0 HOLLOWAY, Edward Mr Holloway - The information requested is being obtained.