1909-06-03 3 4 0 SENATE 261 0 Senate. 1909-06-03 A quorum not being present at 2.30 p.m., the bells were again rung, and a quorum formed. The President took the chair at 2.35 p.m., and read prayers. 261 papers Senator MILLENlaid upon the table the following papers : - Electoral Acts 1902-1905. - Provisional Regulations. - Statutory Rules 1909, No. 18. Commonwealth Electoral Acts 1902-1905 and Electoral Act 1907 (Tasmania). - Regulations relating to Joint Electoral Rolls.- Statutory Rules 1909, No.29. Defence Acts 1903-4. - Financial and Allowance Regulations (Provisional) for the Military Forces of the Commonwealth - Amendment of Regulation 143. - Statutory Rules 1909, No. 51. Cancellation of Regulation 78, and substitution of new Regulation in lieu thereof. - Statutory Rules 1909, No. 52. Regulations (Provisional) for the Military Forces of the Commonwealth - Amendment of Regulation 558. - Statutory Rules 1909, No. 54. Amendment of Regulation 121a; and new Regulation 121b. - Statutory Rules 1909, No. 55. Amendment of Regulations 2 and 4. - Statutory Rules 1909, No.53. Transcontinental Railway Survey, Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta. - Report by Mr. H. Deane, M.T.C.E., on the progress of the work (dated 21st May. 1909). War and Peace Establishments of the Military Forces of the Commonwealth of Australia. 261 miscellaneous 261 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT - I have to announce to honorable senators that, in response to the Senate's vote of condolence with the widow and family of the late Premier of South Australia, I have received the following telegram: - presidentofsenate,melbourne. I have the honour to acknowledge receipt of your telegram conveying the resolution of the Senate expressing its profound regret at the untimely decease of our Premier, also its deep sympathy with Mrs. Price's familyand the people of South Australia. I have communicated its contents to Mrs. Price, who desires me to' thank the Senate for its sympathetic message of condolence. I also desire to thank the Senate on behalf of the people of South Australia. H. Peake, Acting Premier. Adelaide, 3rd June, 1909. That reply will be recorded in the Journals. 261 special adjournment 261 KUL New South Wales Free Trade Vice-President of the Executive Council 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN . - I beg to move - That the Senate at its rising adjourn until Wednesday, 23rd June. I am submitting identically the same motion as that which was discussed at considerable length 'yesterday. An amendment was then submitted, and the debate was terminated by a count-out. I trust that, in view of the fact that the other House has adjourned until the 23rd inst., honorable senators will be content to allow the present motion to go without discussion. I would point out to them that, even if they should re-submit the amendment which was offered ' yesterday and' it should be carried, they would not in any way further the work of the Senate, whilst they might greatly inconvenience other honorable senators. 261 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator Givens - We have the Navigation Bill to go on with. 261 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - Under no possible circumstances will there be a Ministerial statement made on the 16th inst., and until that statement is made I take it that it will be incompetent for the Senate to seriously address itself to the business of the country. I have no desire to say anything that may lead any honorable senator to import into any debate which may take place to-day any of. that bitterness which, unfortunately, marked some of yesterday's proceedings. But I do feel that I am entitled to ask honorable senators to extend to the Government the ordinary courtesy which has been extended to every Government since the (Commonwealth was founded, and particularly do I again remind Senator McGregor that it was on his motion that an adjournment of three weeks was granted when the Watson Government took office. 261 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Pearce - That was not in this Parliament. 261 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - Is my honorable friend going to take refuge in the quibble that it was not done in this Parliament? 262 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Pearce - Yes ; I say that the present Government established a new precedent in this Parliament. 262 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - My honorable friends created the precedent. 262 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Pearce - It was already created for us. 262 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - My honorable friend is now repeating, though in different words, exactly the same statement as he made yesterday - that, in the course he was taking, he was not acting in the interests of business, but out of a vengeful feeling because of something under which he is smarting now. 262 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Pearce - I did not say that. 262 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - The honorable senator yesterday said distinctly that he was going to give us some of the treatment to which he complained he had himself been subjected. I say that is absolutely subordinating the public interest and the requirements of decency to the feeling of vengeance that is evidently animating the honorable senator. 262 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Pearce - Public decency requires that this Parliament should be dissolved. 262 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - Is the honorable senator going to bring in here a dispute he may have had with the Governor-General ? If he is going to do that, let me say at once that the sooner he ceases to talk of public decency the better. 262 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Pearce - I referred to what is going to happen in the future, not to what happened in the past. 262 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - I have asked honorable senators opposite to extend the usual courtesy to the Government. I ask them for no generosity, and no magnanimity, but that they should follow the precedent always followed by every Parliament in the civilized world ; and that is that, upon the formation of a new Government, a fair and reasonable time should be granted them in which to draft their policy into statutory form. 262 JYX 0 0 FINDLEY, Edward Senator Findley - The Government is not deserving of an hour. 262 KTF 0 0 MCGREGOR, Gregor Senator McGregor - That is what Sir John Forrest said upon another occasion. 262 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - I am afraid that if I were judge in the case, Senator Findley would find that I should allot him a much longer term than that. We are asking for an adjournment of three weeks, and it is impossible for any one to say that that is a moment too long. Even honorable senators on the other side said they regarded the proposal as a. reasonable one. Senator Needham said that he could not oppose my motion on the ground of unreasonableness. Some honorable senators said that, having a policy already formed, we ought to be able to meet Parliament in a day. Others said that we had no policy, and that, therefore, any time occupied in an attempt to formulate one would be time wasted. 262 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator Givens - Honorable senators on the Government side wanted Parliament called together in April, in order to present Britain with a Dreadnought. Could we not go on with that proposition now ? 262 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - That reminds me of the fact that the late Government had to depend on my help, and on the help of my honorable friends on this side, to get them into recess. We sat up here all night to save the late Government - from whom? From those redoubtable representatives of Queensland, Senators Turley, Givens, and Stewart. I say that but for the assistance of honorable senators on this side, the late Government would never have got their Estimates through. These are the gentlemen who object now to a fair and reasonable demand. The members and supporters of a Government who took six months in which to formulate their policy now deny to the present occupants of the Treasury Bench the very much shorter period of three weeks. I am not asking for any concession from honorable senators opposite. What I am asking for the Government' in this motion is what any fair and reasonable Parliament would grant to any new Administration.. If honorable senators on the other side are determined to refuse it, they can do so. Senator McGregor(South Australia) [2.44].- I have no intention to move an amendment on the motion submitted by the Vice-President of the Executive Council today. My reason is that in another place honorable members have decided to adjourn for three weeks. Most 'honorable senators will agree with me that honorable members in another place having adjourned for three weeks it would be rather absurd for us to adjourn for only a fortnight. It would be more reasonable to adjourn for a month here if in another place they adjourned for three weeks. But I should like to remind the Vice-President of the Executive Council that there has twice been failure to obtain a quorum of his supporters to discuss his motion, that it is only with the assistance of members of the Opposition that it can be discussed, and that if it went to a vote to-day it is very questionable how the numbers would turn up. I am putting these facts before the honorable senator to show him that we are not following our present course from any factious spirit, but in order that the honorable senator and his colleagues may know that they will have to be here if they wish to do business in the future. 263 K0F Western Australia 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator PEARCE . - I wish to refer to a remark which was made by the Vice-President of the Executive Council. The honorable senator has rather a habit of trying to put upon one's words a construction that is not warranted, and of attempting to prejudice one by twisting words that have been used to mean something that was not intended. When the honorable senator just now was referring to public decency, I interjected that public decency required that we should get this Parliament to the people at the first opportunity. By inference. Senator Millen tried to twist that into a reflection by me upon His Excellency the Governor-General. His words could only be regarded as an attempt to do that. I am sure that in his calmer moments the honorable senator would give me credit for knowing better than to endeavour to reflect upon the Governor-General, either here or outside. He knows very well, as do those who cheered his remarks, that no such inference was to be drawn from what I sa:id. 263 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator Millen - I shall rely upon H Hansard 263 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator PEARCE - I am willing that the honorable senator should rely upon Hansard. It will be shown that the honorable senator attempted to twist what I said into something else. What I said at the time, and what I say now, is that honorable senators on this side and members of the same party in another place are endeavouring, and will continue to endeavour, in the interests of public decency, to bring the present Government before the people at the earliest opportunity ._ That was my statement. It was a reference to the public acts of the party to which I belong, and to what they intend to do, and had no reference at all to anything contained in the decision arrived at bv his Excellency the Governor-General. Senator GIVENS(Queensland) [2.48). - I should net have risen at all were it not for the angry 'tirade to which the Vice-President of the Executive Council has treated the Senate. The honorable senator is exceedingly angry because yesterday the Government were subjected to the humiliation of a count-out through not being able to keep their supporters together. We have had a long experience in having to keep a House for the miserable little handful that aspired to run the Senate for a long time. 263 KMT 0 0 GRAY, John Senator Gray - We have had to keep a House for honorable senators opposite. 263 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - There is a big combined party on the other side now, and we have to keep a House for them. They talk of having a majority in both Houses, but they failed to show that they had a majority in the Senate yesterday. Although there was no concerted attempt on this side to count them out - because there were four honorable senators on this side and six- on the Government side when the count-out took place - that organ of light and leading, the Argus, which 'is the mouthpiece of honorable senators opposite, indulged in a wail, and endeavoured to pour contempt upon honorable senators of the Labour party because they were not here to keep a House for honorable senators opposite. Honorable senators on the Government side were not here to deal with the motion submitted by the Vice-President of the Executive Council, but when it was a question of displacing the late Government, they were all here. When it is a question of doing the business of the country, there are not enough of them here- to form a quorum. The moment the late Government was displaced, and it became necessary to go on with the business of the country, three-fourths of them "skedaddled" off to their homes in the other States- 263 K1U 0 0 PULSFORD, Edward Senator Pulsford - Because there was no business to do. 263 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - Then what did Senator Pulsford come here for to-da.y ? If there is no business to be done, what is the honorable senator doing here now ?. Why did he come over post-haste from Sydney this morning if there is no business to be done? The moment they succeeded in displacing the late Government, honorable senators who support the present Government "skedaddled" off to their homes. They have been taught a useful lesson, and one by which I hope they will profit in the near future. 263 KKL 0 0 FRASER, Simon Senator Fraser - They thought that everything would be conducted in a' straightforward and orderly way. 263 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - Senator Fraser was within the precincts of the Parliament yesterday when the Senate was counted out, but so little did he think of his legislative duties that when a quorum was called for he failed to put in an appearance. 264 KKL 0 0 FRASER, Simon Senator Fraser - I was in the other House at the time. 264 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - But this .is the branch of the Legislature for which the honorable senator has been elected. The Government have endeavoured to saddle honorable senators upon this side of the Chamber with blame for what occurred yesterday. 264 KKL 0 0 FRASER, Simon Senator Fraser - I naturally thought that a big man like the honorable senator would have been reasonable. 264 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - Year after year I and other honorable senators who are associated with the Labour party have kept a quorum in the Senate for a Government which commanded only three supporters here. Now, when we ought to secure a little relief from that sort of thing, in view of the fact that a big combined party occupies the' Treasury benches, we are still asked to sit here and listen to twaddle. 264 K78 0 0 ST LEDGER, Anthony Senator St Ledger - We only expected the honorable senator to observe a matter of form. 264 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - When I am asked to remain here and submit to the infliction of listening to speeches by Senator St. Ledger, I am being asked too much. 264 K1U 0 0 PULSFORD, Edward Senator Pulsford - I suppose that the honorable senator was teo exhausted to enter the chamber when the proceedings opened this afternoon ? 264 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - I was attending to mv correspondence. I was quite willing to allow the honorable .senator and his pious colleagues the privilege of listening to the reading of the prayer. I knew that he would be present, because he needs praying for very badly. The present situation would seem to indicate that honorable senators who have combined to form what is known as the Liberal-Tory party, or the Free- trade- Protectionist party, do not desire to proceed with the business of the country at all, notwithstanding that they have raised a continual clamour that Parliament should be called together earlier than usual this year. Why are not the Government prepared to proceed with the consideration of business? Surely a fortnight was a reasonable adjournment to allow them, especially in view of the fact that when the Fisher Government took office it was granted a- respite of only eight days. Seeing that honorable senators opposite have repeatedly declared that it was necessary that Parliament should be called together early this year, in order that it might demonstrate the loyalty of our people by pre.senting a Dreadnought to Great Britain, I ask - Why has that proposal now been dropped? Why have not the Government submitted a motion in favour of the course which they advocated so strenuously six or eight weeks ago? Why has this matter been permitted to sink into insignificance? Who has strangled it? Who wishes to thrust it into the background? Why, honorable senators opposite. They merely desired to use their professed loyalty as a lever with which to oust the Fisher Government. Directly their greed for office had been satisfied, they dropped the Dreadnought proposal as they would a hot potato. 264 JYX 0 0 FINDLEY, Edward Senator Findley - -They have dropped their life-long principles. 264 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - I will not say that, because my honest opinion is that they never held any fixed principles. When some of them were telling the country that in a Free-Trade policy lay its only hope of salvation, they had merely persuaded themselves that they believed their own statement. In reality they did not believe, it at all. When Senator Best was telling the people that a Protectionist policy was the only one for Australia- 264 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT - I hope that the honorable senator will connect his remarks with the motion before the Chair. 264 KLS 0 0 GIVENS, Thomas Senator GIVENS - I am pointing out as a reason why- the Senate should not adjourn for three weeks, that the country is entitled to know whether my honorable friends opposite were really sincere in their professions of a short time ago. It is also entitled to learn at the earliest possible moment what are the intentions of the Government. I have always objected to lengthy adjournments of the Senate. An adjournment for three weeks will be useless to me, because it is not sufficiently long to enable me to return to my home and to remain there for more than two days. As a matter of fact, I could not leave Melbourne until Wednesday next, so that the proposed adjournment is absolutely useless from my stand-point. But seeing that the Ministry are determined that the Senate shall adjourn for three weeks, we have a right to enter our protest against the adoption of that course, so that upon a future occasion they may be a little more reasonable and treat the legitimate wishes of honorable senators with a little more respect. Question resolved in the affirmative. 264 14:58:00 Senate adjourned at 2.58 p.m.