1918-01-11 7 2 0 SENATE 2917 0 Senate. 1918-01-11 The President (Senator the Hon. T. J. Givens) took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers. 2917 papers The following papers were presented : - Copy of memorandum by the Governor-General, dated 9th January, 1918, relative, to the change of Government. Report of the Resolutions and Proceedings of the Conference of Commonwealth and States Taxation Officers, held at Melbourne, March, 1917. Pursuant to Statute - Papua.- Ordinance No. 9 of 1917- Supplementary Appropriation 1916-1917 (No. 4). 2917 Questions 2917 2917 KRX 0 0 LONG, James Senator LONG - I ask the Leader of the Government in the Senate whether, in connexion with the projected shipbuilding scheme, the Government propose to utilize the wonderful natural facilities that exist in the State of Tasmania for shipbuilding purposes. I noticed from a statement in the press that a certain gentleman recently visited Tasmania, and, perhaps, the Minister will say whether ho had any authority from the Commonwealth Government to investigate the facilities I have referred to. . 2917 KUL NAT 1 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - I know nothing of the gentleman referred to, but if the honorable senator will repeat the question next week I shall endeavour to get the information for him. 2917 bill Bill received from the House of Representatives. Standing and Sessional Orders suspended to enable the Bill to be passed through all its stages without delay. 2917 Questions 2917 2917 KMP 0 0 GRANT, John Senator GRANT asked the Minister representing the Minister for Works and Railways, upon notice - What is the total cost to date, and the estimated annual loss on - Port Augusta to Kalgoorlie Railway? Port Augusta to Oodnadatta Railway? Northern Territory Railway? Canberra Railway? 2917 K3E NAT 1 0 RUSSELL, Edward Senator RUSSELL - The information will be prepared and laid on the table of the Senate asa return. 2917 Prosecutions under War Precautions Act. 2917 KMP 0 0 GRANT, John Senator GRANT asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice - How many newspapers published in the Commonwealth have been proceeded against under the provisions of the War Precautions Act or Regulations thereunder for the publication of articles or advertisements since 1st November till31st December, 1917? What are the names of such newspapers? What is the total amount of fines imposed, and to what extent bare they been paid? How many actions are pending'? How many editors or managers of newspapers have been proceeded against for similar reasons? Sow many have been fined? What was the name of each person fined? What is the amount of each fine? What is the total amount of such fine? How many actions are still pending? What are the names of the members of - the Senate; the Legislative Assemblies; and of private citizens (excluding editors and managers of newspapers) who since the passing of the War Precautions Act and Regulations thereunder have been proceeded against far making statements contrary to the provisions of the said Act and Regulations? The name of each person fined and the amount in each case? The total amount of such fines? How many persons are now in gaol for offences under the War Precautions Act and Regulations thereunder? 2918 KUL NAT 1 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - I suggest to the honorable senator that the information sought by a question of this kind should be moved for as a return. I should like honorable senators . generally to accept the intimation that if questions of this character are submitted on the Thursday, it is impossible for the Departments concerned to obtain replies to them on the Friday. . For the convenience of the Senate and of Ministers I trust that, so far as possible, honorable senators submitting such questions will put them on the notice-paper for the first day of the following week. 2918 Soldiers' Votes 2918 JXJ 0 0 NEEDHAM, Edward Senator NEEDHAM asked the Minister representing, the Minister for Home, and Territories, upon notice - The total number of votes cast in the recent referendum by members of the Australian Imperial Forces? The total number in each subdivision in the Commonwealth? Tier total number in each division in the Commonwealth ?. 2918 K3E NAT 1 0 RUSSELL, Edward Senator RUSSELL - The answers are - The count in respect of members of the Forces (as defined by the regulations) inclusive of members voting overseas, on warships, and within Australia, is as follows : -Yes, 103,443; No, 93,794. A small number of votes have yet to be counted. 2 and 3. The votes (taken on the military roll) have not been allocated to subdivisions or divisions. When the voting is complete a statement will be prepared showing the allocation to States. 2918 bill 2918 KUL New South Wales NAT Minister for Repatriation 1 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN . - I move - That this Bill bo now read a first time. The proposed appropriation covers a period of one month, and provides for the ordinary services of Government and war services, so far. as they are payable out of revenue. The total amount of the schedule is £1,211,615; omitting refunds of revenue, £45,000, the total is £1,166,615. The amount thus asked for is less than one-twelfth of the total estimated expenditure under annual votes, namely, £1,308,960. Supply has already been granted up to the 31st December of last year. The amount provided, omitting Treusurer's Advance and Refunds of Revenue, is £6,913,386. Excluding Treasurer's Advance and Refunds of Revenue, the total provision which will bo available to meet expenditure to the 31st January, 1918, is £8,080,001. I remind honorable senators that the total amount provided on the Estimates previously submitted amounts to £15,707,522. Deducting from that amount certain items, for which no provision appears in this month's Supply Bill, the available appropriation amounts to £14,129,852. Seven-twelfths of that amount is £8,242,413, but the total provision which will be made if the Senate approves of this Bill will only be £8,080,001. It will thus be seen that the proposed expenditure for the seven months is less than seven-twelf ths of the total expenditure for the year set out in the Estimates. No provision has been made in the Bill for any service which has not previously been approved by Parliament. In connexion with increases to salaries, provision has only been made for such increases as fall due under Arbitration Court awards, or which are automatic under the Public Service Act. Provision has not been made for increases to salaries in the higher divisions of the Service. These increases will not be paid until the Estimates are passed by Parliament. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a first time, and passed through its remaining stages. 2919 special adjournment 2919 KUL New South Wales NAT Minister for Repatriation 1 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN . - I beg to move - That the Senate at its rising adjourn until 3 o'clock on Thursday of next week. 2919 KKZ 0 0 GARDINER, Albert Senator Gardiner - Why do you want to make it next week? 2919 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - Because I cannot say what may happen elsewhere, and if there is a possibility of business being available for the Senate, it is desirable that this Chamber should be ready to transact it. 2919 KKZ 0 0 GARDINER, Albert Senator Gardiner - In view of the probabilities in another place, I would suggest that the Senate be adjourned until the following week. 2919 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - There is nothing to prevent the honorable senator making that suggestion, but I am not sure that it is advisable to adopt it. 2919 KKZ 0 0 GARDINER, Albert Senator Gardiner - I anticipate that a vote of censure will be debated in the other House next week, and .then there will be another Supply Bill, so it is not likely that the Senate will have any business. 2919 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN - In this case, I am merely doing what I think is necessary to meet the convenience of honorable senators. At the same time we must not overlook an obligation which is upon us to deal with the country's business when it is available. I admit it is extremely difficult for me to forecast the happenings even in this Chamber, let alone the other branch of the Legislature, so I am unable, at the present moment, to do more than submit the motion in the terms indicated, because I think it would be regarded as a reflection on this Chamber, and we might be charged with a dereliction of duty if it should happen that the other House was prepared to send business to the Senate, and we were not ready to receive it. In these circumstances, I think it is better that honorable senators should suffer some little inconvenience rather than cause delay in the transaction of public business. An adjournment is necessary, but I shrink from placing this Chamber in the position of being absent if there should he work for us to do. 2919 KKZ New South Wales 0 0 GARDINER, Albert Senator GARDINER . - My only reason for suggesting to the Leader of the Senate that we should adjourn till the following week was the futility of calling us together next Thursday. It has been the custom hot to transact business in the Senate while a censure motion is under discussion in another place. A no-confidence motion ha3 been accepted by the Government, and the debate on it will occupy the ordinary sitting days of next week. 2919 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator Millen - May I suggest to the* honorable senator that the other House may meet a little earlier next week ? 2919 KKZ 0 0 GARDINER, Albert Senator GARDINER - Well, that would only prolong the debate. 2919 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator Millen - Does the honorable senator say that an earlier sitting will prolong the debate? 2919 KKZ 0 0 GARDINER, Albert Senator GARDINER - I am simply stating the fact that the debate will be prolonged, and if we are to meet on Thursday next, it will only be for the purpose of securing another adjournment, as it is extremely improbable there will be any business for us. After the censure motion has been disposed of, the Government, I understand, intend to introduce a Supply Bill for two months, and that measure is not likely to get through the other House either on Thursday or Friday. Honorable ' senators opposite must understand that we have placed a restraint upon ourselves on the present occasion, but when the other. Supply Bill comes before the Senate they cannot expect us to pass what has been done during the past three months without a full-dress debate. Personally, I am quite sure that if we meet on Thursday next, we shall have to adjourn till 'the following Wednesday, because it will not be possible in the time between Thursday and the following Wednesday to deal with the old Government that went out of office. 2919 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator Millen - The only thing I am asking the honorable senator to keep in mind- is that it is not advisable to keep public business waiting. That may happen if his forecast is wrong. 2919 KKZ 0 0 GARDINER, Albert Senator GARDINER - There will be no business available for the .Senate next Thursday, and I want to meet the convenience of honorable senators from Queensland, Smith Australia, and my own State. There is no reasonable prospect of the Senate finishing its work next week, 'because the other Supply Bill will not be treated like the one we have just passed. 2920 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator Millen - I admit that, like Senator Gardiner, I can only speculate as to what will occur in the other place, 'but I am willing to meet the convenience 01' honorable senators, and, with the permission of the Senate, will withdraw the motion, and :ask you, Mr. President, to suspend the sitting until half-past 2 o'clock, when possibly we will be able to ascertain what has taken place elsewhere, and then be able to fix a date for the resumption of Senate business. 2920 KKZ 0 0 GARDINER, Albert Senator GARDINER - Thank you. 2920 KRX Tasmania 0 0 LONG, James Senator LONG .- May I point out to the Leader of the Senate that it is possible he has overlooked a distinct arrangement entered into 'between the two parties in the other House last night? Part of that agreement has been given effect to by the transaction of business in the Senate this morning. I understand that a discussion took place regarding the period for which Supply should be granted, and that one month's Supply was to be given at once without debate, and that the Government would accept a want of confidence motion, upon which they would give five clear days' debate. 2920 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator Millen - Five days? 2920 KRX 0 0 LONG, James Senator LONG - Yes, five full days' debate was to be allowed the no-confidence motion. If the Leader of the Senate will refer to the newspaper reports of the debate, he will find a verification of what I am saying. I am not accusing him of wishing to go behind that contract ; I am merely pointing out that' possibly he has overlooked it. 2920 KUL 0 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator Millen - I was not aware that any period had been settled. 2920 KRX 0 0 LONG, James Senator LONG - The Prime Minister (Mr. Hughes) said that if members of the Opposition wanted -more than five days they would have a lot 'to say. I submit, therefore, that if the agreement is to . be given effect to in the other Chamber there will be five full days' debate, and obviously it would 'be unfair to bring senators from the other States back to Melbourne on Thursday when there is so little prospect of the no-confidence debate terminating before the latter end1 of next week at the earliest. I invite Senator Millen, therefore, to adjourn until a later hour in the day, and ascertain if- a contract has not been entered into between the parties, and1 thus obviate any inconvenience to members living in tie other States by requiring them to attend here next week. 2920 KUL New South Wales NAT Minister for Repatriation 1 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN . - In view of what I have said by interjection, I ask permission of the Senate to withdraw the motion with a view to requesting Mr. President to suspend the sitting until 2.30 p.m., in order to enable me to ascertain in the meantime what are the probabilities in the other Chamber. I might add that I am the last to ask any honorable senators to attend if there is no prospect of 'business. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. 2920 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT - In accordance with the procedure of the Senate, and in order to meet the convenience of honorable senators, I suspend the sitting until half-past 2 o'clock, at which hour I shall resume the chair. Sitting suspended from. 11. 2J/..- to 2.30 p.m. 2920 KUL NAT 1 0 MILLEN, Edward Senator MILLEN . - Honorable Senators will recollect that be fore the sitting was suspended I had moved a motion that the Senate at its rising adjourn until Thursday next. The purpose of the suspension of the sitting was- to enable me, if possible, to form a more accurate forecast as to what was likely to be the course of events in another branch of the Legislature. I have done what I could to ascertain the probabilities'" there, but I now find myself unable to do anything more than resubmit the motion which, with the sanction of honorable senators, I previously withdrew. I therefore move - That the Senate at its rising adjourn until Thursday next at 3 p.m. I should like to admit at once that I can conceive .that it will be quit© possible that when honorable senators re-assemble on Thursday next I may then have to ask them to adjourn to the following day. On the other hand, it is also possible that if the Senate adjourned over the following week there might be public business waiting and no Senate to deal with it. Faced with 'these alternatives, I believe that honorable senators will agree with me that it is better that we should be inconvenienced a little than that public business should have to wait. Question resolved in the affirmative. 2921 14:33:00 Senate adjourned at 2.33 p.m.