1929-11-21 12 1 1 SENATE 21 0 Senate. 1929-11-21 The President (Senator the Hon. W, Kingsmill) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers. 21 Questions 21 21 JXZ NAT 0 0 DUNCAN, Walter Senator DUNCAN - I should like to know from the Leader of the Government in the Senate if the Ministry has given any consideration to the enormous amount of unemployment there is in Australia today; and, if so, whether it proposes to formulate plans to alleviate it? 21 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The Government has given most serious consideration to the unemployment existing in Australia, and the fullest consideration is being given by it to every conceivable plan that may serve to alleviate the trouble. 21 21 KRZ 0 0 LYNCH, Patrick Senator LYNCH - In view of the declaration of the Government that it proposes to seek an amendment of the migration agreement with the Imperial Government I should like to know in what manner, if at all, the proposed amendment will affect the agreement made with Western Australia in the matter of the 3,000 farms scheme? 21 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The Government is now negotiating with the Imperial Government in regard to the migration agreement. Immediately a reply is received the States will be consulted as to what amendments', if any, will require to be effected in the agreement. 21 papers The following papers were presented - Royal Commission on the Constitution - Report with appendices. Royal Commission on the Coal Industry - Interim report on question asked in letter dated 19th June, 1929, addressed to the commission by the Honorable the Acting Premier of New South Wales. Reparations - Protocol approved at the Hague Conference, 31st August. 1929. Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determinations by the Arbitrator, &c. - No. 20 of 1929 - Australian Postal Electricians Union. No. 21 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 22 of 1929 - Postal Overseers Union of Australia. No. 23 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 24 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 25 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 26 of 19'29 - Australian Workers Union and Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 27 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 28 of 1929 - Fourth Division Postmasters, Postal Clerks and Telegraphists Union and Federated Public Service Assistants Association of Australia. No. 29 of- 1929 - Federated Public Service Assistants Association of Australia. No. 30 of 1929 - Commonwealth Postmasters Association. No. 31 of 1929 - Arms, Explosives and Munition Workers Federation of Australia. Nos. 32 and 33 of 1929 - Fourth Division Officers Association of the Trade and Customs Department and Commonwealth Public Service Clerical Association. No. 34 of 1929 - Line Inspectors Association, Commonwealth of Australia. No. 35 of 1929 - Australian Workers Union and . Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. Nos. 30 and 37 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 38 of 1929 - Commonwealth Public Service Clerical Association and others. Nos. 39 and 40 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 41 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia. No. 42 of 1929 - Amalgamated Postal Workers Union of Australia and Fourth Division Postmasters, Postal Clerks and Telegraphists Union. Audit Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 104. Australian Imperial Force Canteens' Funds Act - Report by the Auditor-General upon the Accounts of the Trustees of the Fund for the year 1928-29. Beer Excise Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 119. Commonwealth Bank Act - Treasurer's Statement of the combined Accounts of the Commonwealth Bank of Australia and the Commonwealth Savings Bank at 30th June, 1929, certified to by the Auditor-General. Customs Act - Proclamation dated 21st October, 1929, prohibiting exportation (except under certain conditions) of flour. Distillation Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 105. Excise Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1.929, No. 97. High Court Procedure Act and Judiciary Act - Rule of Court - Dated 6th November, 1929. Immigration Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 108. Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act - Statement re pensions for the twelve months ended 30th June, 1929. New Guinea Act - Ordinances of 1929 - No. 13 - Mineral Oil and Coal. No. 14- Supply (No. 2) 1929-1930. No. 15 - Contracts. No. 10- Supply (No. 3) 1929-1930. Norfolk Island Act - Ordinances of 1929 - No. 4 - Rawson Hall. No.6 - Interpretation. No. 7 - Companies. Papua Act - Ordinances of 1929 - No. 1- Supply 1929-1930. No. 2- Bounties. No. 3 - Supplementary. Appropriation 1928-1929; together with Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for the Year ended 30th June, 1929. No. 4 - Bills of Exchange. No. 5 - Stamp Duties. No. 7 - Building. Public Service Act - Appointments - Department of - Markets and Transport - R. W. Kurrle. Trade and Customs - R. A. Boulton, G. J. Laycoek. Treasury - P. N. Lipscomb. Works- R. M. Baxter, E. G. Powell. Shipping Act - Australian Commonwealth Shipping Board - Profit and Loss Account for the year 1st April, 1928, to 31st March. 1929; and Balance-sheet as at 31st March, 1929. Australian Commonwealth Line of Steamers - Balance-sheet as at 31st March, 1929; and Profit and Loss Account for the year 1st April, 1928, to 31st March, 1929. Cockatoo Island - Balance-sheet as at 31st March, 1929; and Profit and Loss Account for the year 1st April, 1928, to 31st March, 1929. Spirits Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 98. Trade Marks Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 89. Treaty of Peace (Germany) Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 111. Air Force Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 114. Defence Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, Nos. 101, 102, 121, and 123. Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired at - Collingwood, Victoria - For Postal purposes. Rocklea, Queensland - For Defence purposes. Naval Defence Act - Regulations amended - StatutoryRules 1929, No. 113. Northern Australia Act - Central Australia - Crown Lands Ordinance - Regulations amended. North Australia - Crown Lands Ordinance - Regulations amended. Northern Territory Representation Act and Commonwealth Electoral Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 109. Post and Telegraph Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, Nos. 94 and 103. Quarantine Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, Nos. 95, 115, 116. and 117. River Murray Waters Act - River Murray Commission - Report for the year 1928-29; together with Statements furnished on behalf of the Governments of New South Wales, Victoria, and South Australia in respect of Gaugings, &c. Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act Ordinance No. 18 of 1929 - Administration and Probate. 22 Questions 22 Singing of " The Red Flag 22 KRZ 0 0 LYNCH, Patrick Senator LYNCH - Is the Minister aware that, in a common recreation room at the Hotel Kurrajong last night, " The Red Flag " was sung by a number of leading politicians, including Ministers of the Crown? Is he further aware that the singing of that song was particularly offensive to a number of the guests present, as well as to an overwhelming majority of the people of this country? Seeing that the hotels at Canberra are owned by, and conducted in the interests of, the public, will he take steps to see that revolutionary songs whichmight hurt the feelings of patrons of the hotel are not sung there in future? 22 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The honorable senator should direct his question to the manager of the hotel, and not use the Senate chamber to ventilate personal grievances. If, however, he gives notice of his question it will be submitted to the Minister for Home Affairs. 22 Prosecution of Mr. John Brown 22 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - I ask the Minister representing the Prime Minister, without notice - In view of the outcry made by members of the present Government against the alleged failure of the late Government to prosecute Mr. John Brown and other coal barons of New South Wales for an alleged lockout of their coal mining employees, will the Minister inform the Senate if such alleged lock-out still continues? Have the papers prepared by the previous Attorney-General in connexion with the John Brown case been investigated by the present Attorney-General ? If not, why not ? (a) When, if at all,is it proposed to commence the prosecution; (b) if no prosecution is contemplated, what is the mysterious influence which prevents it? Has the attention of the Minister been drawn to a press statement that the Government proposes to subsidize Mr. John Brown and others to get the mines opened; and is this information correct? Is the proposed subsidy a reward for the result of the last election or is it merely heaping coals of fire upon the head of Mr. John Brown to induce a tardy repentance for his alleged sins? 23 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The answers to the honorable senator's questions are - It is purely a question of law. All matters connected with the trouble in the coal-mining industry have been investigated by the Attorney-General as honorable senators who have read recent newspaper reports are aware. (a) See answer to No. 1. (b) There is no mysterious influence controlling the Government. The Government is not responsible for statements which appear in the press. See answer to No. 4. 23 23 JZD 0 0 FOLL, Hattil Senator FOLL - Seeing that the Government has abolished compulsory military training, will it introduce legislation to amend the Conciliation and Arbitration Act, in order to ensure that there will be no compulsion regarding membership of industrial unions? 23 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The two subjects are as far apart as the poles. 23 23 KRZ 0 0 LYNCH, Patrick Senator LYNCH - I ask the Minister representing the Prime Minister if, in view of the declared intention of the Government to suspend the functions of the Defence Department in the interests of economy, will Ministers consider, further in the interests of economy, the advisableness of abolishing the department altogether, or of making it a sub-department of the Invalid and Old-age Pensions Department ? 23 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - I do not propose to answer a question couched in such language. 23 bill Assent to the following bills reported : - Supply Bill (No. 2) 1929-30. Invalid and Old-age Pensions Appropriations Bill 1929. War Pensions AppropriationBill 1929. Customs Tariff Validation Bill 1929. Excise Tariff Validation Bill 1929. 23 miscellaneous 23 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT - Pursuant to Standing Order No. 28a, I hereby nominate Senators W. L. Duncan, M. R. O'Halloran, H. J. M. Payne, and B. Sampson a panel to act as Temporary Chairman of Committees when requested so to do by the Chairman of Committees, or when the Chairman of Committees is absent. 23 miscellaneous 23 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT - Pursuant to Standing Order No. 38, I hereby appoint the following Senators to be a Committee of Disputed Returns and Qualifications: - Senators J. B. Dooley, W. L. Duncan, J. F. Guthrie, A. A. Hoare, M. R. O'Halloran, H. J. M. Payne, and W. G. Thompson. 23 Questions 23 Treatment of Aborigine Prisoners 23 K09 0 0 PAYNE, Herbert Senator PAYNE asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, upon notice - Has his attention been drawn to a photograph appearing in the Melbourne Herald of the 18th instant showing aborigine prisoners at Alice Springs Gaol chained together with apparently heavy chains suspended from the neck and shoulders? If so, will he at once ascertain if this picture is a true representation of the manner in which these prisoners are secured, and if that is the case will he take steps for the adoption of some less severe method of securing these prisoners against escape? 23 K1L ALP 1 0 BARNES, John Senator BARNES - The answers to the honorable senator's questions are as follow : - Yes. The Minister for Home Affairs is going into the question of the chaining of abo riginals with a view to abolishing this practice. 24 24 KP8 0 0 JOHNSTON, Edward Senator E B JOHNSTON asked the Minister representing the Minister for Tradeand Customs, upon notice - Has the report of the Tariff Board on the question of altering the incidence of the coastal clauses of the Navigation Act been received? If not, when will this report be made? 24 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The answers to the honorable senator's questions are as follow : - No. The report is in course of preparation. 24 24 KP8 0 0 JOHNSTON, Edward Senator E B JOHNSTON asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice - What stopshave been taken in regard to. the extension of the north-west aerial service toWyndham? At what date is it expected that this extension will come into force? 24 K1L ALP 1 0 BARNES, John Senator BARNES - Inquiries will be made and a reply furnished to the honorable senator as soon as possible. 24 Railway Construction 24 KP8 0 0 JOHNSTON, Edward Senator E B JOHNSTON asked the Vice-President of the Executive Council, upon notice - Has the Development and Migration Commission reported on the question of railway construction to serve the large area of country lying between Southern Cross, Esperance, Albany, and the great southern districts of Western Australia, known as the " 3,500 Farms Scheme" ? Is it a fact that large numbers of people have already been settled upon Crown lands in this area, and that their requests for necessary railway facilities are held in abeyance by the State Government, pending the receipt of this report? If so, can the issue of the report of the Commission be expedited? 24 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The answers to the honorable senator's questions are as follow : - No. A considerable amount of data has been collated by the Development and Migration Commission in conjunction with the Western Australian Government regarding the classification of land, railway, road and water supply estimates, and farm economics. At the present time the Western Australian Government, in collaboration with the Development and Migration Commission, is making a detailed investigation into the soil conditions throughout the area embraced in the scheme.The Western Australian Government is taking all possible steps to expedite the completion of this investigation, and the Commission's report will be completed as soon as the result is known. I understand that a certain amount of settlement has been proceeding in the area covered by the proposed scheme. The honorable the Premier of Western Australia, in replying to a question asked recently in the Western Australian Legislative Assembly, stated that all settlers who went into the area had been informed from time to time that no rail facilities were available, nor could any guarantee be given as to when the settlers would have rail communication. See answer to No. 1. 24 24 KRZ 0 0 LYNCH, Patrick Senator LYNCH asked the Vice-President of the Executive Council, upon notice - Whether, in view of the fact that the completion of the Singapore navalbase was considered and allowed for at the Washington Conference, and of the recent announcement of the British Government that it proposes to go slow with the completion of that work, will the Government intimate to the British Government that the safety of Australia is bound up with the early completion of such work? 24 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The answer to the honorable senator's question is as follows : - The Commonwealth Government has been kept informed by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of the position with regard to the Singapore base, and is carefully watching the situation, in the light of Australia's interests. 24 Public Service Administration 24 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice - Have the associations representing the public servants of New Guinea on several occasions directed the attention of the Ministers charged with the administration of the New Guinea Act to the difficulties placed in the way of approach by such public servants to the Minister? Did the Public Service Association of the Territory of New Guinea, on the 8th August, 1928, address a letter to the Minister for Home and Territories and forward it to the Administrator, requesting that all such correspondence be forwarded to the Minister? If so, when was that letter received by the Minister? What was the reason given for the delay (if any) ? What reply (if any) was given to the request in the letter, and when? 25 JTL ALP 1 0 DALY, John Senator DALY - The answers to the honorable senator's questions are as follow : - Representations on the question of direct communication by the Public Service Association of New Guinea with the Minister have been made on several occasions. In this connexion, 1 would invite the honorable senator's attention to the answer given to a question asked by him in the Senate on 22nd March last. Yes. A copy of the letter was received by the Prime Minister's Department from the Administrator on 19th April, 1929. The reason given by the Administrator fur thu delay was that the letter was included with other papers connected with representations by the association which he had taken with him to Australia for discussion with the Minister during his visit at the end of 1928. tie added that, owing to the circumstances which existed at the time, a convenient opportunity for discussion of the subject did not arise prior to his return to the Territory on account of the trouble with the natives which occurred early in January. A reply to the representations of the association has not yet been sent by the Prime Minister's Department. It was necessary to obtain the observations of the Administrator on the principle involved, and the whole question is at present under consideration. 25 25 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice - What is the present strength of the regular and other military and naval forces of Denmark, and when are they to be disbanded? 25 K1L ALP 1 0 BARNES, John Senator BARNES - I will endeavour to obtain the information desired by the honorable senator, and advise him as soon as possible. 25 Motion Address-in-Reply . 25 JVF New South Wales 0 0 DOOLEY, John Senator DOOLEY . - I move - That the following Address-in-Reply to His Excellency the Governor-General's Speech he agreed to : - To His Excellency the Governor-General - Mat it it.ease Your Excellency: We, the Senate of the Commonwealth of Australia, in Parliament assembled, desire to express our loyalty to our Most Gracious Sovereign, and to thank Your Excellency for the Speech which you have been pleased to address to Parliament. There are many reasons why I am pleased to have the honor of moving the motion I have just submitted, and chief among them is the knowledge that we have at last in power a Commonwealth Government that will uphold the principles of democracy, and legislate on a humanitarian basis in the interests of all sections of the community. The advent, of this Government is in more .than one sense historically important, since it is the first Labour administration to sit in the Federal Capital of Australia, and the first to hold office since the termination of the great war. It is approximately fourteen years since the Fisher Labour Government held office, but there are many of us who well remember the good work which it performed, aud therefore appreciate the re-entry of Labour to administer the affairs of the Commonwealth. I can say without fear of contradiction that there has never been a federal ministry more earnest and sincere and more honestly desirous of administering the affairs of the Commonwealth in the best interests of the nation than the Fisher Government was. To-day we have in power a replica of that administration. I am convinced that it will uphold the splendid example set by the Labour Government of fourteen years ago, and legislate not on behalf of sectional interests, but for the protection of all. For years every conceivable act of political trickery was practised by our political opponents in order to keep Labour out .of office. Aided by a large majority of the great newspapers of Australia they vilified and misrepresented Labour from one end of Australia to the other. I remember the leaders of the Bruce-Page Government telling the people prior to the 1925 election that Australia was on the verge of a revolution, and that the Labour party wished to dispense with constitutional government. There was, of course, not the slightest justification for such statements. Again during the 1925 election, when the great waterside trouble was in progress, the representatives of the Bruce-Page Government assured the people of Australia that if they were granted a further term of office, Johnson and Walsh would be deported, that peace and harmony would prevail, and that the country would be governed according to law. The political cry of our opponents at that time was for "law and order." The people, however, have come to see that they were tricked. The result of the last -general election shows that at last they realized that what they had been told by our opponents was untrue, and as a result of this awakening a Labour government is in power to-day. The supporters of the Bruce-Page Government promised all sorts of reforms, for which the people looked in vain, and when that government endeavoured to put the clock back 25 years by attempting to destroy the principle of arbitration, and thus deprive the workers of their only means of receiving fair treatment the electors expressed their disapproval in the most decisive fashion. During the last election campaign no side issues such as communism or bolshevism were raised as on previous occasions. For the first time in many years the people were free to give their decision on one broad issue, stripped of political trappings, and their verdict was a triumph for democracy as against an autocracy. The task before the present Government is tremendous. How gigantic it is few persons fully realize. It is not my desire to hit a man when he is down, but [ cannot refrain from saying that the previous Government has left matters in such a state that it will be some time before the present administration will be able to make real progress. Unfortunately, it is unable to start from scratch; it commences with the handicap of the previous Government's maladministration. Last year the then Treasurer (Dr. Earle Page) informed the people of Australia that there was an accumulated deficit of £5,000,000, and as five months of the current financial year have elapsed it will be an extremely difficult task for the Government to accomplish what it desires during the present financial year. The speech which His Excellency delivered to Parliament yesterday gives an indication of the course which the Government intends to pursue, but a more detailed outline of its legislative programme will be given early next year. It will be admitted that the Government is pursuing the right course and that it is its desire to work in the interests of the community generally. While in power the Nationalist Government was always advocating industrial peace, but its one idea of the way in which industrial peace should be brought about was that the worker should always make a sacrifice. In 1928 the Bruce-Page Government passed an arbitration bill containing many iniquitous clauses aimed at the workers, but within twelve months it had to admit that this legislation was quite ineffective. It then endeavoured to scrap the whole system of arbitration. I am extremely pleased that the present administration intends to* bring down legislation to improve our present system of conciliation and arbitration. We shall not have industrial peace until equity and justice prevail, and we look to the Conciliation and Arbitration Court for justice for the workers. I sincerely hope that the strenuous efforts now being made by the Government to settle the coal dispute will meet with success. I do not desire to deal extensively with that matter at this juncture; but the trouble is so serious that I urge the Government to take steps - drastic, if necessary - to put an end to the suffering and misery that now exist as a result of the lockout. I have visited the coal-fields, and I know precisely what is happening there. I have seen helpless little children going to school lunchless, and forced to have recourse to the soup kitchens provided by charity in. order that they might keep body and soul together. 26 K2L 0 0 REID, Matthew Senator Reid - Whose fault is that? 26 JVF 0 0 DOOLEY, John Senator DOOLEY - The honorable senator knows whose fault it is. When his Government was in power, it refused to make any endeavour to compel the coal-owners to settle the dispute. To-day, the Nationalist Government of New South Wales is doing little more to bring about peace in the industry. According to the views of honorable senators opposite, there is only one method by which the dispute may be settled, and that is by the worker making further sacrifices. I am sure that everybody will be pleased to learn that further restrictions are to be placed upon the introduction of foreign migrants into Australia. It is useless to deny that foreigners are being employed in this country to the detriment of Australians. Hundreds of thousands of pounds are sent out of the country annually by these foreigners. Every rational person must realize the futility of protecting Australian industries if, at the same time, we import foreigners to manufacture the articles that we need. The Federal Labour Government will endeavour to make operative an effective tariff that will be in the interests, primarily, of Australians and Britishers. If any benefits remain to be distributed, the foreigners may have their share. "We should certainly not encourage the introduction of foreign migrants while our own countrymen are out of employment. I have nothing against those foreigners, other than that their standard of living is not ours. After years of toil and sacrifice, Australians have established a standard of living of which we are all proud, and which we cherish to such an extent that we are not prepared to permit it to be lowered. 27 K2L 0 0 REID, Matthew Senator Reid - How can it be lowered when we have arbitration court awards? 27 JVF 0 0 DOOLEY, John Senator DOOLEY - On very good authority I have been informed that foreigners are being employed in Australia at less than award wages. 27 JZD 0 0 FOLL, Hattil Senator Foll - Yet the honorable senator's Government allows that state of affairs to continue. 27 JVF 0 0 DOOLEY, John Senator DOOLEY - The honorable senator will realize that it is necessary to confirm the information before taking action. The trouble is caused by these foreigners being ignorant of the industrial conditions prevailing in Australia. Many of these men know nothing of arbitration court awards, and their ignorance is being taken advantage of by some of the people whom Senator Foll represents. The Federal Government gives practical assistance to the country by making substantial monetary advances to the States in order that an extensive system of main roads may be constructed, and I hope that steps will be taken to ensure that all the materials used in the construction of those roads shall be of Australian origin. It will be agreed that it is regrettable that we have to import motor cars, but that it verges on tragedy if we have to import the material with which to construct the roads on which those motor cars run. I trust that the Government will be able to devise some scheme to relieve existing distress produced by unemployment. There is no greater crime to society than to allow helpless women and children to suffer the pangs of hunger, particularly in such a young country as ours, where the natural resources are illimitable. It is pathetic that, after a reign of fourteen years, Nationalist governments have left the country in such a deplorable condition. 27 K09 0 0 PAYNE, Herbert Senator Payne - Does the honorable senator contend that the Federal Government is wholly responsible for all this distress ? 27 JVF 0 0 DOOLEY, John Senator DOOLEY - No ; but I hold that to Nationalist governments must be attributed the blame for most of the distress that now reigns in Australia. I may be wrong, but it is- my conviction, and apparently that of the constituents who sent me here, that a government should do something in the interests of the people it represents. It should be realized that the backbone of a country is its flesh and blood, and that something should be done for the people who made great sacrifices during the Great War to keep this country safe for democracy. The people are entitled to all that it is humanly possible to give them, and a government should honour that obligation. If a government fails in its duty to the people it must expect to be thrown out of office. And that was the fate of the late Federal Nationalist Government. I trust that honorable senators will realize the seriousness of Australia's position, the extent of the problems which confront this Government, and the great handicap under which it labours. No other Federal government came into power at a more unfavorable time. On every hand it is faced with want and hunger - with a great army of unemployed. Within a few weeks it has achieved wonders, and has encouraged many employers to cease dispensing with the services of their employees. That in itself is some justification for its existence, and goes to prove that it is sincere and earnest in its endeavour to ease unemployment and to encourage the prosperity of our industries in order thai they will be able in the near future to provide work for more of our own people. 1 am confident that this Labour administration will warrant the trust reposed iu it by the people, and I solicit the help of all honorable senators in the task that is involved in straightening out the present chaotic state of affairs. If we all put our shoulders to the wheel and assist we shall again place the country upon the plane to which it was raised by the Fisher government over fourteen years ago. It is the intention of this Government to continue where the Fisher government left off, and, if given a fair chance, it will undoubtedly do as that government did - leave the country with a surplus instead of the tremendous deficit under which it now groans. 28 JZ6 South Australia 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN . - I have much pleasure in seconding the motion moved by Senator Dooley that an address ' be presented to His Excellency the Governor-General in reply to the speech with which he opened Parliament yesterday. That pleasure is intensified by the fact that as the result of the overwhelmingly favorable vote cast for Labour candidates at the recent general election we have now on the Treasury bench of the Commonwealth Parliament, a Labour Government in control of the affairs of this great nation, meting out justice to all and giving favours to none. [ congratulate our worthy and able leader, Mr. Seullin, on being the first Labour Prime Minister to assume control of the Government in the National Capital, Canberra; and in this regard, I extend my congratulations also to his worthy and able team of Ministers. I trust that their stay in office will be prolonged. As to their success I have no doubt whatever. It is fitting that I should tender special congratulations to Senator Daly, my colleague from South Australia, on his accession to the high and honorable office of Vice-President of the Executive Council, and Leader of the Government in the Senate. In his hands and in those of my old friend and colleague, Senator Barnes, to whom I also tender my congratulations, the destiny of the Government in this chamber will be safe and the business of the Senate will be well and worthily carried out. Not only is the return of a Labour Government to office a fact of historical importance; it represents one of the greatest triumphs of the Labour movement. For fourteen years Labour has existed in the shades of opposition, beset by many great storms that have from time to time darkened the political horizon. After being called upon to suffer an almost withering attack from within its own ranks, it was faced with the defection of many stalwarts of the movement, who, having sharpened their wits by association with Labour, and in the service of their former ideal, thereafter sought by all means at their command to encompass its destruction. But the movement has weathered all storms, and today, as the result of the first election since 1914 that has been decided upon real political issues, it is in power in another place with a big majority. The people, when given the opportunity, not only displayed their confidence in the Labour movement; they also intimated in no uncertain way that the federal system of arbitration should be retained, and with it the Australian standard of living. This standard, as we know, gives a measure of comfort to the masses, those who bear the heat and burden of the day, those who do the useful work, those who delve in the mines for riches or work in the fields and paddocks to foster production, or keep the wheels of industry turning. It is the aim of the Labour movement to give to those who produce the wealth of the nation a full and just share in the apportionment thereof ; and it is a healthy sigu that the people of this generation of Australians have recognized the efforts of those great democrats of the old days who pioneered the Labour movement, and, facing tremendous odds, nailed to the mast- head of this young country the banner of civil and economic freedom. I take this opportunity to pay a tribute not only to those worthy pioneers who still remain loyal to our cause, but also to the countless thousands who constitute the rank and file of the movement for the yeoman service they rendered at the last election. The gibes of our critics during the years we were in opposition, have been well answered by the people of Australia. The movement has emerged from its testing time fitter, better and stronger than ever. As to the task confronting the Government, I have no illusions. The banner of civil and economic freedom is still at the masthead, but that for which it stands is very far from realization so far as a big body of the people are concerned. It will be one of the greatest tasks of the Government to bring that freedom nearer to the homes of the people, but first of all the Government must dispose of the many unpleasant legacies handed down by its predecessors in office. Among these are widespread unemployment with its attendant suffering, which has been so well described this afternoon by Senator Dooley, an empty Treasury, a deficit of approximately £5,000,000, and depreciation in our primary and secondary industries, which must give all thinking persons ample ground for concern. It. cannot be said that the previous Government upon acceptance of office was fettered by an inheritance such as this. Rather was the reverse the case. Upon coming into office it found in the Treasury a surplus of £7,400,000, little unemployment, and prosperity in our primary and secondary industries. It is not my intention to indict the late government for having altered all this. It has already been arraigned before the bar of public opinion and found guilty by the jury of the people of the Commonwealth. Its punishment is that its stewardship has been handed over to another government - the problems confronting Australia have been entrusted to other hands for solution. The speech with which His Excellency the Governor-General was pleased to open Parliament yesterday, disclosed not only a desire for action on the part of the Government, but also the fact that steps have already been taken by it to deal with the existing unemployment which is probably one of the greatest problems confronting Australia to-day. 29 K8P 0 0 THOMPSON, William Senator Thompson - But unemployment is world-wide to-day. 29 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - The fact that it is world-wide, does not mean that it is incapable of solution. Nor does it connote that a government earnestly and honestly anxious to grapple with the problem, cannot solve it. In how many countries of the world can Senator Thompson attribute existing unemployment to the movement which is represented by the Government occupying the Treasury bench in the Commonwealth Parliament at the present time? My friend's silence shows that there was no point in the interjection he made. The Government has placed the unemployment problem in the forefront of its policy. It proposes to tackle it in what I consider the best way of dealing with it, and that is by curtailing migration. We are told by His Excellency the Governor-General that a communication has already been forwarded to the Imperial Government seeking relaxation from the assisted passage provisions of the migration agreement with Great Britain. I trust that the Imperial Government will accede to the request, because I can conceive no worse policy than one which encourages work seekers to migrate to a country where the reservoir of labour is already overfull. If we induce people to come here under those conditions, it is distinctly unfair to them, because their entry can only be followed by one of two results - they must either join the army of workless or displace others already in employment. Irrespective, therefore, of whatever government may be in power, it should be an accepted fact that no migrants should be assisted to come to Australia until proper provision has been made for their absorption in our community. During its term of office the late Government spent approximately £2,000,000 on migration activities. The bulk of the expenditure represents passage money for the 160,000 migrants who were brought to Australia during the period. It must be obvious that had there been no assisted migration during that period, there would be little or no unemployment in Australia to-day. Several honorable senators interjecting. 29 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - If my friends of the Opposition will tell me how we can gain by bringing to this country a person who is not. in the position to pay his own passage, when we already have here people for whom we cannot find employment, I shall be prepared to concede the point. But until they can do so, I repeat what I have already said in this chamber, that it is not a wise policy. I am pleased the people of Australia have endorsed that attitude, because this question was undoubtedly one of the turning factors in the recent elections. Would it not have been better if that £2,000,000 had been diverted into channels, controlled by either the Commonwealth alone or the State Governments in co-operation with the Commonwealth, which would have assisted the primary and secondary industries of the country to extend their activities and thus absorb more workers? As it is, the money which has been expended has merely brought to Australia a number of competitors with Australians in an already overcrowded labour market. The interjections of honorable senators opposite give colour to the suspicion that behind the policy of the late government was a desire to create a surplus supply of labour, which, together with the abolition of the Arbitration Court, would have resulted in a lowering of the Australian standard of living. Many of the migrants who came to Australia expecting that the promises made to them prior to their departure from their homeland would be realised have been sadly disillusioned; they are now included in the ranks of the workless in this country. It is true that some migrants have secured employment in Australia, but only by displacing others. The suspension of assisted migration will do much to solve the great problem of unemployment. The Premier of South Australia has attempted to take the Federal Government to task in this connexion. If there is one responsible public man in Australia who should remain silent on the subject of unemployment it is the Honorable R. L. Butler, the Premier of South Australia, for that State is in the unenviable position of having the highest percentage of unemployed workers of any of the Australian States. 30 JZD 0 0 FOLL, Hattil Senator Foll - That is an inheritance from a Labour government. 30 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - The honorable senator's interjection shows how little consideration he has given to the facts. Only this morning I looked up the Federal statistician's figures relating to unemployment at the time that the Labour Government in South Australia relinquished office in March, 1927, and I found that four per cent, of the workers in that State were then unemployed. To-day over 14 per cent, of the workers of that State are out of employment. 30 JZD 0 0 FOLL, Hattil Senator Foll - The effects of Labour administration in that State are only now being realized. 30 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - I again remind the honorable senator that before interjecting he should make sure of his facts. The chief factor contributing to the present unsatisfactory position in South Australia was the huge public works policy of a previous Liberal administration, known as the Railways Rehabilitation Scheme. That Government, instead of spreading the work over a number of years, endeavoured to complete it in a comparatively short time, with the result that it attracted to South Australia some of the surplus labour from the other States. When the work was completed large numbers of men were thrown out of employment. 30 K09 0 0 PAYNE, Herbert Senator Payne - Did not the Labour party in South Australia approve of that railways rehabilitation scheme? 30 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - It did not. The Labour Government on assuming office would have curtailed the scheme, but the work was then so far advanced that that action was not practicable. It is true that it could have refused to finance the scheme, but that would have meant that a number of railway lines which had been torn up would have been left in such a state that trains could not have run over them; bridges would have been left partially built; and new structures to take the place of engine sheds and workshops which had been demolished would have been left in various stages of completion. To have left the railways in that condition would have been to act more foolishly than to complete the original scheme. Not only should the admission into Australia of foreign migrants be discouraged, but steps should also be taken to deal effectively with those already here. Under the Federal Aid Roads Scheme the Commonwealth makes available to the States large sums of money for road construction. While I am not aware of the position in all the States, I know that, as a result of the insistence by the late Government that the contract system should be adopted in connexion with such works, large numbers of southern Europeans have been employed by road contractors in South Australia, to the detriment of genuine Australians. Men in a position to know have informed me that some hundreds of such foreigners are employed on road construction works in that State. One contractor, who is his own foreman, employs a gang of 22 men, all of whom are foreigners. Another contractor is himself a southern European, and, naturally, the men working under him are also foreigners. 31 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir Georgie Pearce - Those are not Federal, but State, contracts. 31 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - The Federal Government insisted on the contract system being adopted in connexion with such works, notwithstanding that the State government had in existence a fine roadmaking organization which was doing better work than is now being done by contractors. Honorable senators opposite cannot evade their responsibility by saying that those contracts were let by the State government. The Federal Government, which paid the piper, could have called the tune. In this class of work Australian and British workmen should be given preference over foreigners, and I hope that that policy will soon be pur into operation by the present Government. The Governor-General's Speech indicates that financial matters will engage the immediate attention of the Government. Naturally, it does not contain particulars of the policy to he adopted, for that is a matter which will be explained when the budget is presented and the Estimates come under consideration ; but, knowing what previous Labour governments have done, I have no doubt that the present administration will not only grapple with the financial problems confronting the Commonwealth, but that it will also discharge the existing mortgage, and bring about a surplus. History will repeat itself. 31 K09 0 0 PAYNE, Herbert Senator Payne - How is all this to be done ? 31 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - When confronted with difficult problems the late Government endeavoured to escape its obligations by creating leaning posts, such as royal commissions and boards of inquiry. 31 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir George Pearce - What about the Hibble tribunal? Is that not a commission ? 31 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - The term of office of that government was notable for the number of such leaning posts which were created. I am pleased that the members of the new Government propose to discontinue the practice followed by their predecessors in office. In future there will be greater co-ordination between the Development and Migration Commission and other government departments without in any way impairing the efficiency of any of them. The Government will not create separate boards to do work which can more effectively be carried out by existing departments. With that, I think, the people of Australia will wholeheartedly concur, and, after the scheme has been launched, it will, I am sure, be responsible for a considerable saving, and bring about that result concerning which Senator Payne appears to be so anxious. The next question that calls for consideration is the condition of our primary and secondary industries. To improve our position we must aim at increased production, and provide better facilities for the marketing of our products. No government should countenance any avoidable drop -in the price of Australia's primary production. The efforts of all governments should be directed towards increasing the yields and the stabilization of prices. During the regime of the late Government - for the last decade, as a matter of fact - there was a considerable increase in the area under production; but, unfortunately, that increase did not connote an increased production in the same ratio. On the contrary, there has been ' a substantial decline in the Australian ' wheat yield in recent years. It may be argued that this is beyond the control of any government - that it is due, in the main, to variations in climate, fluctuations in price, and other causes. 31 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir George Pearce - Were we responsible for the dry seasons? 32 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - Although, propitious precipitations have deluged most of the drought areas of Australia since the advent of this Government, I am not going to be so unkind as to imply that the late Government was responsible for the 'drought season which preceded the rains. I do not suggest that the Bruce-Page Administration had any control over the weather; but I do emphasize that governments can control the opening up of areas for wheat-growing purposes, and I do say that State governments of the same character as that which recently occupied the federal treasury bench have been responsible for the settlement of wheat-farmers in areas where the margin of safety, as regards rainfall, is very narrow. Thus we are faced with the position that, despite huge expenditure on public works in providing facilities for new settlers, large numbers of primary producers, after spending some of the best years of their life in trying to develop their holdings, have been obliged to leave them without any reward for their years of toil. Two illustrations of the truth of my statement are to be found in South Australia and Victoria. In those States successive Liberal or Nationalist governments have consistently overlooked large areas of country with an assured rainfall, suitable for practically all kinds of mixed farming, and have opened up for settlement land in districts with -an insufficient rainfall. These areas have been developed at a huge cost to the taxpayers in those States. 32 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir George Pearce - What particular area has the honorable senator in mind? 32 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - The northern mallee iri Victoria and portions of Eyre Peninsula and the- northern Murray valley in South Australia. 32 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir George Pearce - Does the honorable senator say that a Nationalist Government in Victoria was responsible for opening up the northern mallee? 32 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - Yes, and the results have been most disastrous tn the people concerned. 32 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir George Pearce - I heard that story during the election campaign and wondered who was responsible for it. Now I know. 32 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - The parties which have been opposed to Labour for so long have been masquerading under so many different banners in recent years that it is impossible to say, at the moment, by what names all. State non-Labour governments were known. 32 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir George Pearce - The honorable senator's statement is merely an election " tarradiddle." 32 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - The Leader of the Opposition -may call it an election " tarradiddle " if he wishes to do so ; but it is a fact that State governments similar in character to the late Federal Government have been responsible for the settlement of large areas of country with a doubtful rainfall in the States mentioned. 32 KTR 0 0 MCLACHLAN, Alexander Senator McLachlan - Does the bonorable senator condemn the land on Eyre Peninsula ? 32 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - Not the whole of it. 32 KTR 0 0 MCLACHLAN, Alexander Senator McLachlan - Then why complain? It, is proving the salvation of the State this year. 32 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - I admit that there is a large area of good land on that Peninsula, with an assured rainfall, and in the years to come that territory should produce a much greater cereal crop than it has up to the present. But in recent years other districts with a scanty rainfall have been opened up. Railway facilities have been provided and heavy expenditure incurred in other public works, but settlers who took up land four, five or six years ago are still waiting for a return on their expenditure of capital and labour. I refer particularly to the Buckleboo ai-ea. If the honorable senator will read some of the reports presented to the South Australian Parliament concerning that settlement, he will have some idea of the amount paid in drought relief to keep farmers on the land there. To counteract the evil effects of this unwise policy of land settlement, there should be co-operation between the Federal and State Governments for the repurchase of land in large estates suitable for closer settlement in districts with an assured rainfall. If this is done settlers who take up that land will have reasonable certainty of some return, and since railways, roads and other public works have been, provided, the expenditure necessary for the settlement of a given number of people should be considerably reduced. It should be possible to bring such areas under production at little or no public expenditure, and in addition the return on expenditure for existing public works should be considerably increased. This is u matter in which I have taken a great deal of interest, but as I have spoken upon it on a former occasion, I do not wish now to reiterate what I then said. [ strongly urge the Government to see that the necessary tests for suitability are made before further lauds are opened up for settlement. If we are to secure an increase in the volume of our production, we shall have to insure a closer settlement of all those areas with an assured rainfall. I noted with pleasure, a statement made by the Leader of the Senate (Senator Daly) yesterday to the effect that the Government proposes to extend the policy of applying science to our primary industries. 33 K09 0 0 PAYNE, Herbert Senator Payne - Did not the late Government do something in that direction? 33 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - I freely admit that it did, but there is a vast field for an extension of that work. We must realize this when we remember that, as regards the yield per acre, Australia is twenty-fourth on the list of the principal primary producing countries of the world. There are two ways in which our position in this respect may be improved. The first is by the restriction of wheat-growing in areas with a doubtful rainfall, and the second is by increased production per acre in cultivable areas with an assured rainfall. This increase in yield would be made possible by the eradication of pests, and the application of scientific methods to production. I come now to the question of marketing. In my opinion the late Government did not give sufficient attention to this important matter. It is brought home to us more forcibly each year that, as regards the sale of their exportable surplus, our primary producers are at the mercy of speculators. An attempt has been made to formulate a pooling system for the co-operative handling of our wheat. It has been attended with some success, but I believe that to secure to the Australian wheat farmers that full measure of justice which they have a right to expect, it will be necessary to establish an all-Australian pool, into which farmers will be compulsorily drafted. I do not say that the Government should, willy nilly, pass legislation to compel our farmers to pool everything. What I suggest is that, as regards the disposal of surplus wheat, our growers should have an opportunity to decide by ballot whether or not they approve of such a proposal, and the Government should indicate that if their decision is in favour of a compulsory pool, it would assist them to the fullest possible extent. Any system, to be complete, must have some outside backing, because in the early days of any co-operative scheme it would be impossible for the farmers themselves to provide the finance. 33 KRZ 0 0 LYNCH, Patrick Senator Lynch - I suppose the honorable senator admits that an effective cooperative system would bring about the same result? 33 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - Yes. But what would be the price if it were not for the operation of the co-operative system, which in Australia to-day act3 as a policeman to private purchasers who are compelled to make their offers substantially on the basis of what they anticipate the pool will be able to pay ? If they did not do so they would not be able to buy wheat at all. 33 KTR 0 0 MCLACHLAN, Alexander Senator McLachlan - What are thiadvantages of a compulsory pool? 33 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - In Australia they would be similar to the advantages derived by the farmers of Canada from an all-Canadian pool. 33 K3X 0 0 CARROLL, William Senator Carroll - There i3 not an allCanadian pool. 33 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - There is an all-Canadian pool; but all the Canadian wheat is not placed" in the pool. 33 K3X 0 0 CARROLL, William Senator Carroll - There is not an allCanadian pool. They have separate pools. 33 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - They have separate pools for the respective provinces with a central form of control. In this connection I quote the following from the Sydney Morning Herald, published this morning^-" Vancouver, Nov. 19. Co-operation between the Canadian Wheat Pool and the Farmers' National Grain Corporation of the United States is a possibility, in the opinion of Mr. Alexander Legge, chairman of the Federal Farm Board at Washington. The pool and the Farm Board have exchanged friendly greetings. Mr. Legge said that the board had also had correspondence with Argentina, but in view of present conditions it was not possible for wheatgrowers in the United States and Argentina to co-operate. Mr. Legge previously made it clear that as far as the organization of United States producers was concerned there would be nothing but co-operation with the Canadian organization. Such cooperation, it is suggested, would be most informal. Just as two industrial corporations might have a gentleman's agreement in regard to price and division of markets, so the wheat organizations might arrange their affairs. It is felt in the United States that the Canadian growers are in a very advanced position. While some Argentine producers are considering the co-operative idea, it has not been developed as in North America. Commenting on this aspect, Mr. Legge said: "If the Argentine growers organized either on the basis of the Canadian pools or what we ave trying here, the Western Hemisphere would be in a position to meet, on an equal basis, the concentrated buying effect of consuming nations." Why quibble over the terms " co-operative marketing " and " pooling ". 34 K3X 0 0 CARROLL, William Senator Carroll - There is no Canadianwide pool in Canada. 34 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - No, but there are provincial pools controlled by a Canadian-wide organization. A few weeks ago-, when, there was a tremendous financial slump in Wall-street, the Canadian pool was able to stabilize the wheat market to a considerable extent. It not only refused to sell at the panic values created by the slump, but was able to purchase quantities of wheat offering at panic prices. I have also an interesting extract from the report of a debate in the House of Commons on 29th or 30th October, published in the South Australian Advertiser, a portion of which reads - WHEAT DUMPING. German Chain in London. Helped by Bounty. London, October 30. In the House of Commons to-day, Sir Edward Hiffe (Conservative) called attention to the dumping of German wheat and other cereals in this country. Se moved that immediate steps be taken by the Government to counteract this injurious effect upon British agriculture. He said the German subsidy on wheat was approximately 13s. (id. per quarter, and in that way the British farmer could be under-sold. Great Britain offers a market for a substantial portion of our export surplus of wheat. I realize that a pooling system or co-operative marketing, cannot preventthe German government from subsidizing its wheat producers, but we can place our Australian selling agency on a better basis. The report continues - Dr. C. Addison, UnderSecretary for Agriculture, replying to the debate, said there was unanimity about the condition of British agriculture being deplorable, but. nothing that Germany had done had contravened the spirit or letter of any treaty or understanding with Great Britain. Dumping was only part of the greater problem of the control and supply of wheat getting into fewer hands. This year there had been a sudden price slump, owing to large holders being forced to unload suddenly. There were huge combines of wheat buyers in Britain as well as sellers.. Overseas buying was practically limited to three large combines, plus a co-operative wholesale society. If private enterprise has limited the sales of Australian wheat in Great Britain, these large combines must react to the detriment of the Australian farmer. If the Australian wheat producer desires to protect his interests, his only hope is in the adoption of the pooling system which I am advocating and which I trust this Government will assist in establishing. 34 KRZ 0 0 LYNCH, Patrick Senator Lynch - Since the honorable senator favours an. organization to act as policeman over private enterprise in the disposal of the Australian wheat crop, does he not think that it would be an advantage to have some organization to police it? Would not the wheat grower derive greater advantage by having two activities in the field ? 34 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - I have already intimated that I do not think the two activities in the field are of benefit to the growers. Conditions might arise when a competitor with a pooling system might be able to take advantage of exceptional circumstances prevailing in the wheat market in a way that the pool could not.- Instances have occurred where private buyers have been able to benefit by temporary wheat shortages to a greater extent than a pooling organization possibly could. All that the wheat farmers are asking for, and all any producer is entitled to, is a fair market value for the commodity he produces, and which would be available to him under a properlycontrolled pooling system. A Commonwealth pooling system, or a series of State pools with a central selling organization, would not only be beneficial to the wheat-growing industry, but of great advantage to the country generally. 35 KTR 0 0 MCLACHLAN, Alexander Senator McLachlan - If all wheat were pooled, on what basis would the market value of wheat bo ascertained? 35 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - As the honorable senator is aware, tremendous speculation ' takes place in connexion with wheat sales. Shipments placed on board vessels at Australian ports are in some instances sold and their destination changed several times while they are still on the water. As a result of these resales and speculation generally the margin between the price received by the producer and that paid by the consumer is often increased, and it is to reduce that margin that the Labour party is endeavouring to evolve a co-operative marketing system under the control of the growers. The wool-growers are in a similar position. I venture to say that the recent slump in wool values, which to a great extent was due to speculation, has awakened the wool-producers of this country. They made a mistake a few years ago when they , rejected a scheme for a continuation of a wool-pooling system, and an agitation for a reintroduction of that system will probably be revived in the near future. The arguments which I have adduced in favour of the wheat-pooling system could also be used with equal force in connexion with our wool production. I notice from a> paragraph in the Governor-General's Speech, that the Government intend to honour the promise made by the previous administration in the matter of granting financial assistance to South Australia. The urgency of this matter is, I am sure, well known to honorable senators. The case was fully presented to Parliament in the report furnished by the South Australia Disabilities Commission, which conducted a full and complete inquiry on behalf of the late Government. I under stand that the present administration intends to be more generous, and will grant the full amount recommended by the commission without imposing any unnecessary obligations upon the State Government.. If that is so, I feel sure that the people of South Australia will be grateful to the present Government for the financial assistance which they will shortly receive. It is not my intention to reiterate the pleas I made on behalf of the viticultural industry some months ago except to say that what I said on that occasion has proved by subsequent events to be true. South Australia is the principal wineproducing State in the Commonwealth; of the 18,000,000 gallons of wine beverage or spirit produced in the Commonwealth, no less than 14,000,000 gallons are produced in South Australia. Unless the industry can be assisted in successfully marketing its product over a period of years, or until the Wine Export Control Board can, -by improved marketing methods and advertising, increase sales abroad, the industry in South Australia will be in a parlous condition. The recoil will be upon a section of the industry least able to bear it. More particularly will it adversely affect returned soldier settlers, who were virtually compelled by the State government of the day to engage in the wine industry. Because conditions were then propitious, the market favorable and prices high, that government prepared and planted large areas with wine grapes, and on those areas it repatriated returned soldiers. The result was a large increase in the wine production of Australia. The first of the new areas came substantially into production in 1922, the output being 8,542,573 gallons. In 1923 that had increased to 11,427,793 gallons, and in 1924 to 14,663,S81 gallons. In 1925 the output was 13,299,290 gallons; in 1926, 16,224,741 gallons; in 1927, 20,456,341 gallons; in 1928, 17,302,611; while for 1929 the estimated production of Australia is 18,399,968 gallons. The greater bulk of that increase represents the product of areas which were planted for the repatriation of returned soldiers, and the increase has caused the present difficulty. It has brought about a surplus beyond the capacity of " the Australian market to absorb, and compels us to establish markets elsewhere, a task at present beset with difficulty. 36 K8P 0 0 THOMPSON, William Senator Thompson - Why not sell the wine cheaper in Australia, and so increase the home market ? 36 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - That suggestion is worthy of consideration, but it is not the fault of the growers that wine is not retailed more cheaply in Australia. Speaking from memory, the grower receives about £7 10s. a ton for his grapes, and after they are processed, the excise duties .paid and the various marketing channels traversed, the consumer pays at the rate of something like £114 per ton on the resultant beverage. Those figures were supplied to me by Colonel Francis, who is vitally interested in the problem in South Australia, and who assures me that they are correct. The task is chiefly one calling for State action. The Federal Government derives a large amount of revenue from the brandy production branch, of the industry, and I think that out of that revenue it would be justified in granting assistance to the wine beverage side. That could be done by slightly increasing the bounty and by a continuation of drawbacks and control for a period of years. I would not advocate that procedure were I not convinced that eventually we shall find a market for our surplus overseas, also in Australia, by reason of our increased population. It would be a tragedy if in ten years time we found that we had a" market for 20,000,000 gallons of wine, and we were unable to supply it because we had put the grubbing axe into large holdings on account of the present unfavorable position. That would be a tragedy not only to the settler, but to the government of South Australia, which has sunk large sums of money in the industry, draining, channelling, providing pumping plants, and otherwise assisting to place areas under cultivation. I trust that the Federal Labour Government will adopt a more sympathetic attitude towards the wine industry than did its predecessor, which reduced the bounty by 9d. a gallon two years ago, and so precipitated the present crisis. I am confident that if the policy that I have outlined is followed the industry will eventually stand firmly on its feet. It is an industry that brings to Australia a considerable volume of outside wealth, and provides in this country employment for a large number of people. It is also responsible for bringing under intense production areas of land which, comparatively speaking, would be poor for cereal growing, grazing, and many other forms of primary production. In conclusion, I express my confidence that this Government will grapple with the tasks which confront it in that satisfactory manner with which other Labour governments in the Commonwealth have surmounted obstacles. It is my belief that this Government will justify the confidence reposed in it by the large majority of the electors of Australia ; that, as the years go by, it will establish a record, which will eclipse that of its predecessor in the matter of mere length of tenure of office and, what is more important, that it will leave behind such a record of good work that it will be said of it with pride, " Something attempted, something done." Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE (Western Australia [4.59]. - I desire, first of all, to congratulate Senator Daly and Senator Barnes, the former on having become the Leader of the Government in the Senate, and the latter upon his accession to office in the Ministry. I am sure that Senator Daly must have been rendered almost breathless by the speed with which he has shifted from one position to another in this chamber. He had scarcely become comfortable in his' seat as Leader of the Opposition when he found himself Leader of the Government in the Senate I assure Senator Daly and his colleagues that honorable senators on this side will do everything to assist the conduct of business in the Senate, and that Ave shall not unnecessarily interfere with its progress. Before dealing with matters arising out of the Governor-General's Speech, I shall address myself to one or two remarks emanating from the mover and seconder of the Address-in-Reply, beginning with those made by Senator O'Halloran. The honorable senator's remarks remind me of a bell wether, a very convenient animal: usually an old and tractable sheep whose services are requisitioned to lead his fellow sheep into the muster yard. For a long time the farmers of Australia have been particularly suspicious of the Labour party. Now we find that party professing to be their greatest friend. We find gentlemen like Senator O'Halloran going about the country making long, plausible speeches about wheat pools, and talking learnedly to farmers as fellow farmers, all with the hope that those farmers will be inveigled into the yard of the Labour party. But let it be noted that the farmers are not expected to read Senator Dooley's speech, in which he advocates that all imported goods should be shut out of Australia. According to him we are to have a tariff that will definitely prevent importation of goods into this country. Naturally if Senator O'Halloran were to make such a pronouncement to his new-found friends, they would at once declare, " That is going to put up the price of things that we have to buy, and it will i u jure us when we are in competition with the markets of the world. How are we to sell our products if all imports are to be shut out of Australia, and we are to be restricted to purchasing all our requirements in this market?" So Senator O'Halloran keeps tactfully quiet on that phase of the subject, and confines his attention to the wine industry and wheat pools. But what would be the position of our wine industry if other countries were to adopt the suggestions of Senator Dooley and apply them to our wines. Incidentally, while not proceeding exactly along those lines, the Labour Government in Great Britain does propose to destroy the preference on Australian wines, and, when that is done, Senator O'Halloran will have very carefully to eschew any references to the blessings of Labour governments in connexion with our wine industry. Such references might cause some of his new-found friends to remember that that Labour Government in Great Britain intends to take a step prejudicial to the industry, one that will wipe away a preference which was established by a Conservative government. To-day we have a rather extraordinary occurrence in connexion with federal governments, one which I think is a record. We are about to be presented with a budget from the new Labour Treasurer, who tells us that the previous budget has had to be revised. Then we have SenatorO'Halloran, who, accidently, happens to be a South Australian representative, announcing in anticipation of the new budget that the Labour Government intends to pay the full amount of the grant to South Australia. That, I assume, is merely electioneering tactics, to divert to Senator O'Halloran glory that is really due to an opposing party. While Senator O'Halloran was talking so learnedly about wheat pools, I looked through the Governor-General's speech to see if it announced the establishment of a compulsory wheat pool, but found no mention of one. Apparently Senator O'Halloran's talk about such a pool is nothing but political birdlime to mislead those people in the wayback, often referred to as hayseeds, who read Mansard, into the belief that this Government intends to do "something for them. The honorable senator's remarks reminded me of a leaflet which was, during the recent election, circulated in the Calare constituency under the name of Mr. Gibbons. It promised the farmers that if a Labour Government were returned to power they would get 6s. 6d. a bushel for their wheat and it probably won the Calare seat for Labour. At any rate Senator O'Halloran's talk about a compulsory wheat pool, no mention of which is made in the Governor-General's speech, is merely political birdlime. Many strange promises were made during the election. Passing through South Australia the other day I encountered a friend who had been there' during the general election. I am sorry Senator O'Halloran is leaving the Chamber because this is a matter that intimately concerns him. My friend told me that he had listened to a speech by one of the supporters of the Labour party in South Australia in which r terrible picture of the devastation caused by the drought in the north of the State and in Eyre's Peninsula was drawn. I pricked up my ears when my friend told me that this gentleman was speaking very well on agricultural questions, because I remembered Senator O'Halloran making very long, speeches in this Chamber on agricultural questions, and I said to myself. " This must be my friend, O'Halloran". My other friend went on to tell me that this gentleman said that the poor unfortunate farmers who had been starved out on Eyre's Peninsula, were victims of Liberal administration, and that if Labour had been in office they would never have been permitted to go out into the dry areas ; that only quite recently the Commonwealth Government, through its agents the Development and Migration Commission, had been instrumental in having an area of land opened up in the north-west mallee district in Victoria, and was putting people on land where he knew quite well they would starve, because they could not possibly live on it. Now I happened to know that the proposal that had been made in regard to the north-west portion of the mallee in Victoria had been put forward, not by a Liberal or Nationalist Government, but by the Hogan Labour Government of Victoria. It was a proposal to develop what is known as the Nowingi area, and in this regard, let me quote from the second annual report of the Development and Migration Commission. The Victorian Government referred to in the report was, as I have already said, the Hogan Labour Government. On page 35 will be found the following: - Notoingi Railway. - Early in 1928, the Victorian Government submitted a proposal for the construction of a railway and roads in the North-Western Mallee district. The proposal involved the development and settlement of a strip of country westwards from Nowingi and immediately south of the settlement on the existingRedclilfs-Merringur railway. The submission contemplated the following expenditure: - After preliminary examination of this proposal, the Commission felt that it was a marginal proposition, and decided, with the concurrence of the State authorities, to conduct a detailed economic survey of the area, with a view to estimating the total costs of development and the results which might be expected to accrue therefrom, both to the settlers and to the community as a whole. Although the submission was for the construction of 35 miles of railway, and the associated feeder roads, it was made clear that the Victorian Government contemplated the development of the whole area of country between Nowingi and the South Australian border. This would involve the construction of 50 miles of railway, and the execution of other necessary public works, including proposed reticulation by means of waterchannels involving an expenditure of approximately £500,000. The Commission's examination, therefore, related to the estimated costs and results of the development of the area which would be served by a 56-mile railway. In a report submitted to the Government in November, 1928, the Commission set out particularsof its inquiries, and discussed the prospects of profitable settlement. Briefly, the principal facts adduced and the conclusions reached were the following: - 1 ) The total capital outlay, both public and private, which would be involved would be at least £2,500,000. The total annual turnover for a considerable period subsequent to the period of development would be approximately £410,000, which was regarded as small in relation to the capital outlay. In the calculations submitted by the Victorian authorities, the estimated average rainfall had been slightly over-stated, and, what was more serious, no weight had been given to the extreme variability of the rainfall above and below the average. Under the proposals as submitted, there was serious danger of the community being called upon to bear a substantial financial burden, and the prospects were that settlers, on the average, would obtain incomes considerably below a living wage. The Commission felt that the adverse effectswhich settlement, under the conditions forecasted, would have upon the settlers themselves, and upon their families brought up under conditions of struggle and privation, were too serious to be ignored. In view of the facts disclosed by the economic survey and the considerations discussed in its report, the Commission was unable, at present, to recommend the proposal as submitted for approval under the £34,000,000 Agreement. It suggested postponement of development pending exhaustive investigation of all influencing factors, which were referred to in detail. The Commission expressed its readiness to recommend the provision of loan funds, under the terms of the £34,000,000 Agreement, up to, say, £25,000, to cover the cost of establishment and maintenance of an experimental and demonstration farm for a period of years. On that report being forwarded by the Bruce-Page Government to the Hogan Government of Victoria, the latter endeavoured to go on with the scheme out of ordinary loan expenditure apart from the £34,000,000 agreement. Senator O'Halloran - because apparently he was the gentleman who made use of this matter during the election to appeal to farmers in the dry areas of South Australia to vote against the Bruce-Page Government, on the ground that it was responsible for this kind of thing - has thus failed in his claim that the Nowingi scheme was fathered by a Nationalist Government in the State of Victoria. How does the Labour party propose to assist the farmers? It proposes to do so by a. high tariff, high costs and a freeforall in the matter of strikes. Senator O'Halloran has referred to' the late Government's fondness for boards and commissions, and says that the present - Government intends to turn over a new leaf in this respect and discontinue this method of doing things. But what are the facts? "Within a month of its appointment as u Government, it has already appointed another board. Finding itself at a dead end in the matter of the coal trouble, all it could do was to appoint a board and arrange a conference, the very steps which it criticised the previous government for taking. What is the Hibble tribunal but a board? If there are no merits in boards, why do Ministers shelter themselves behind the Hibble tribunal? Why do they not deal with the coal trouble direct? Senator O'Halloran claimed that if we only had in Australia civil and economic freedom things would be ideal here. But is there any one in Australia who has not civic freedom? Where are these persons who have not civic freedom ? 39 JRT 0 0 COX, Charles Senator Cox - They are in gaol. 39 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - 1. apologize. I forgot that there are criminals whose freedom is restrained in the interests of the community, but I refuse to believe that Senator O'Halloran was referring to them. In any case, what does he mean by economic freedom? As f understand it, economic freedom means the liberty of a man to please himself as t,o the employer for whom he shall work, and as to the rate of pay he shall accept for his work. I do not think there is a limit to the economic freedom of any individual in Australia. Any one has the liberty to work or refuse to work. The only country that I know of where there is absolutely no economic freedom is Russia, and I dare say later on Senator Rae will tell us something about that country and the " economic freedom " that exists there. But when he hears Senator O'Halloran speaking about the dry areas, the man out in the north of South Australia, who has had a terrible time this year and whose farm has practically been blown away, says, " As this mau speaks so learnedly about the wheat pool and the wine industry, I suppose he is right when he says that there are some people in this country who are denied economic freedom " ; and so he votes in the direction Senator O'Halloran desires. Senator Dooley said that the present Government would emulate -the Fisher Government. If the present Government seeks to emulate the Fisher Government it is going about it in a very curious way. I was a member of that government. I was Mr. Fisher's Minister for Defence, and I well remember moving the introduction of the bill for the inauguration of universal and compulsory military service. The measure was carried unanimously in both Houses, and having carried it, the Labour party went into the country and boasted about it. We said, "What did the Liberals do? They merely carried compulsory training, for boys, whereas we, the real patriots, have extended it to the men. We are going to train every adult in this country up to the age of twenty-one." We said that every person, physically fit and living in a district where he could conveniently be trained, must be trained to enable him to take part in the defence of his country. We boasted about all this. We said that our method was better than that which the Liberals put forward. If the present Government proposes to emulate the Fisher Government by abolishing compulsory military training, I tremble to think of the likely fate of the whole temple of Labour, which was raised in the years from 1910 to 1913. I suggest that Senator Dooley reflects before he again compares this Government with the Fisher Government. The recent election resulted in the defeat of the Bruce-Page Government. There was no election for members of the Senate, so that honorable senators are still in the position of having the endorsement of the electors. A peculiar position has arisen in this Parliament, for in one chamber there is a preponderance of Labour members, whereas in the other Nationalist and Country party members predominate. I take this opportunity of saying that the Opposition in the Senate will not deal in any partisan spirit with the legislation that comes before it. Each measure will be judged from two points of view - first, whether the Government has authority for its introduction, and secondly, its effect on the country. We on this side recognize "that the Government has received a mandate from the people in connexion with industrial matters. The electors undoubtedly desire that the present dual system shall continue. We shall recognize the mandate they have given the Government. Any legislation introduced to amend the arbitration system in order that it may work more smoothly; any attempt to create a better spirit between employers and employees; any effort to extend the principle of conciliation, will receive our hearty support. The Government need expect no opposition to such legislation, for we recognize that it is entitled to legislate in respect of industrial matters. The election was largely fought upon that issue, and the people gave their verdict. But on other questions the Government will have to establish, to the satisfaction of the country, its right to change the existing legislation before the Opposition will support any measure introduced for that purpose. I desire to draw attention to the change in the representation of the Government in the Senate. For many years various governments have recognized the importance of the Senate in this respect, although it is true that in the early years of federation this chamber did not receive that recognition in ministerial appointments that was its due. From 1901 to 1910, the Barton, the first Deakin, the Watson, the Reid-McLean, the second Deakin, the first Fisher, and the third Deakin Ministries were represented in the Senate by one minister with a portfolio and the Vice-President of the Executive Council. From 1910 to 1916, during the administration of the second Fisher, the Cook, the third Fisher and the first Hughes Governments, the Senate, in addition to having a minister with a portfolio and the Vice-President of the Executive Council, had also an honorary minis- ter. Between 1916 and 1926, a period which embraced the second Hughes ministry, the two Nationalist war governments, as well as the Bruce-Page Government, the Senate had two ministers with portfolios and one honorary minister. In June, 1926, the Bruce-Page Government increased the number of ministers in the Senate to four - one minister with a portfolio, the Vice-President of the Executive Council, and two honorary ministers. It will therefore be seen that from the inception of federation the Senate has had either two ministers with full ministerial rank, or one minister and the Vice-President of' the Executive Council. It has remained for this Government to deprive the Senate of any minister with a portfolio. The Senate is now on a lower plane as regards ministerial appointments than it has ever been since the inception of federation. I protest against such treatment of the Senate, particularly as it is quite unnecessary. The Government's failure to recognize the position of the Senate in the Constitution cannot be excused on the ground that its numbers in this chamber are small. During the regime of the first Deakin Government the number of its supporters in the Senate was small, but that Government did not disregard the Senate's claims to recognition in the matter of ministerial appointments. I do not know whether we can take any effective means of emphasizing our protest in. this matter, but I feel that the Government's action warrants more than passing criticism. The Government won the election largely because of the promises it made to the electors. One of those promises had relation to the removal of unemployment. Labour party candidates, especially when addressing electors in industrial centres, made it appear that in their opinion the Bruce-Page Government was largely responsible for the unemployment then existing. To-day the Labour party is being called upon to deliver the goods, lt is no longer in Opposition, incapable of doing more than criticize. But we look in vain to the Governor-General's Speech for any ray of hope for the unemployed. It is true that the Speech contains a paragraph that it is not proposed to appoint a Director of Economic Research. That will result in a very doubtful saving of about £2,000 per annum. Is that grain of sand to be offered to the unemployed? Theunemployed are told to " wait and see." The miseries of the unemployed men and their families were exploited by Labour candidates in order to secure the support of electors for themselves and to create hostility to Nationalist candidates. Those electors will find nothing in the Governor-General's Speech to assuage their suffering. In connexion with the trouble in the coal-mining industry, the Government also made definite promises. I have here an extract from the Sydney Morning Herald of Monday, the 7th October, 1929- MR. THEODORE Resents Taxation Inquiry. "labour will Open the Mines." Muswellbrook, Saturday Mr. Theodore, addressing a large open air meeting at Muswellbrook, said that if Labour was returned the mines on the northern coalfield would be re-opened within a fortnight. Asked how he would do this, he said that the Commonwealth Parliament had sufficient power to bring about a resumption of work. The more fact that a Labour Government was in office would soon move the owners to open the mines. Have the mines been opened? Has Mr. Theodore redeemed that promise? One wonders whether he made it without first having made full inquiry. 41 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - He certainly anticipated more co-operation from others than ho has received. 41 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - The report of Mr. Theodore's speech contains no reference to co-operation. He said that if a Labour Government was returned the mines would be re-opened within a fortnight. But what happened when a Labour Government was returned? We read paragraphs in the press that the Attorney-General (Mr. Brennan) was investigating the constitutional position; that the Government was giving the mutter serious consideration; that each week-end Ministers visited Sydney to consult with union officials. After much cogitation and travelling and many conferences they evolved a proposal which, when brought forward by the Bruce-Page Government, they received with ridicule. They suggested a conference between the mine-owners and the miners. The miners asked for bread, and they were given a stone. Mr. Theodore promised to re-open the mines; he gave them a conference. He won much support for his party by his promise to re-open the mines. 41 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - Mr. Weaver, the State Minister for Mines in New South Wales, now intends to give the miners a policeman's baton. 41 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - The Bavin Government, of which Mr. Weaver is a member, was in office when Mr. Theodore made his promise. No action by Mr. Weaver can absolve Mr. Theodore from the charge that he has not redeemed his promise. A month has now passed since that promise was made, and the mines are still closed; nor does the Governor-General's Speech indicate when they will re-open. 41 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - How many of the promises made by Senator Pearce twenty years ago have not yet been honoured? 41 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - Senator Barnes now adorns a place in which it is not sufficient for him to say that some other person occupying a similar position did, or did not, carry out his promises. He must now answer for himself regarding what he does or does not do. It is for him to say why the Government of which he is a member has not re-opened the mines as promised. 41 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - We will do that. 41 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - I wish now to review some of the acts of the present Government. It has done four things. 41 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - All wrong? 41 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - I shall leave the honorable senator to place his own construction upon the four acts of the present administration which I propose to mention. In the first place it suspended compulsory military training. 41 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - What is wrongwith that? 41 K3L 0 0 SAMPSON, Burford Senator Sampson - Everything. 41 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - There is nothing wrong with it. I am just as good a soldier as the honorable senator. 41 10000 0 0 KINGSMILL, Walter The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon W Kingsmill - Order! I must ask Senator Dunn to restrain himself, otherwise I shall have to deal with him. 42 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - The second administrative act of the present Government, to which I direct attention, was the suspension of the agreement with the British Government as regards assisted migrants. The third was the suspension of the issue 'of licences' to waterside workers. These, it will be noted, were all acts of destruction. The fourth administrative act, and the only one which may be regarded as constructive, was the appointment of the Hibble tribunal to deal with the trouble in the coal-mining industry. This Government won the election by creating a scare that the Bruce-Page Ministry proposed to bring about a reduction in wages, and yet its only constructive act up to the time that it met Parliament was to appoint a tribunal, the chairman of which suggested a reduction of wages as a condition precedent to the re-opening of the mines. Let me now examine some of the destructive administrative acts to which I have referred. In suspending compulsory military training, this Government reminds me of a mischievous child who, after playing with a toy for a time, becomes tired of it and pulls it to pieces. I could understand the decision of the Government if, after having given serious consideration to the problem, it had come to the conclusion that the system of training was not being carried out along right lines. But this Government did not take that stand. It suspended the entire system and then it appealed to the Military Board, saying in effect: - "For heaven's sake tell us what scheme we can put in its place." 42 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - That is not true. 42 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT - Order ! The honorable senator must withdraw that remark. 42 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - I apologize to you, Mr. President, and I appreciate your position. But I remind you that the Leader of the Opposition said just now that the Prime Minister and his colleagues in cabinet appealed to the Military Board, saying, " For heaven's sake tell us what scheme to adopt in lieu of compulsory training." They did not do that. ' ... 42 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT - The honorable senator's explanation is accepted. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.Having announced the suspension of the system of compulsory military training which, as we all know, ' aroused a storm of criticism, the Government then declared that.it proposed to consult with the Military Board as to the system to be adopted in future. That was done. The Prime Minister, the Minister for Defence, and another Minister proceeded to Melbourne and conferred with the Military Board. What was the reason for this precipitate action upon the part of the Government? I read in the press that the Minister for Defence (Mr. A. Green) stated that the Government intended to take some time to consider it. But it appears t.hat a gentleman outside the Ministry - I refer .to Mr. McGrath. the honorable member for Ballarat - said in so many words to the Government: " No you don't. You must abolish compulsory military training before Christinas." Apparently the Government promptly replied " Yes, Mr. McGrath, we will abolish it." 42 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - And the people of Australia are behind us. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE Evidently the Minister for Defence did not think so at the time. Until Mr. McGrath told him he was not aware that the people would be behind this administrative act. On what ground did the Government abolish compulsory training? Several reasons have been advanced, but not one of them is conclusive. In the first place it was reported that the Treasurer (Mr. Theodore), having examined the finances, declared that the abolition of compulsory training would lead to substantial savings in 'expenditure. Accordingly that was put forward as the principal reason. We were told that the Government intend to effect economy and that the only way in which this could be done was by doing away with all camps of training. 42 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - Who said that ? 42 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - ' I understand that the Minister for Defence was responsible for the statement. 43 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - He did not say that was the reason for the Government's action. 43 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - Nevertheless it is clear that the only way to effect economy in this direction is by abolishing the camps of training. We were told also that the volunteer system to be introduced would be just as effective as compulsory training. But is it not clear that, if the volunteer system is to be effective, the men must go into camp for training, and does it not follow that if they are to he trained in the same way as trainees under the compulsory system it will be impossible to effect savings? Again, we were informed that this Government had a mandate from the people to abolish the compulsory system. On that point I remind the Senate that the respective platforms of the several parties were placed before the people at the general election in November last, and on that occasion the electors endorsed the platforms of the Nationalist and Country parties. When the Bruce-Page Government appealed to the people a few weeks ago the question of compulsory military training was not mentioned. 43 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - It was mentioned in the policy speech of the present Prime Minister. Senator SIR GEORGE PEARCE.In connexion with this new proposal of the Government I direct attention to an interesting statement that appeared in the Melbourne Argus on 19th inst. The article read - VOLUNTEER ARMY. Organization Explained. Many Changes in Uniform. Plans formnlated by the military authorities for the enlistment of volunteers were explained by the Adjutant-General of the Australian Military Forces (Brigadier -General T. H. Dodds), in an address at the United Services Institute Hall, South Melbourne, last night to officers of the former Citizen Forces. The report goes on to quote Brigadier-General Dodds as saying that the military authorities had nothing to do with the proposed change, but were simply carrying out orders issued by the Government. He added that the plans for training volunteers prepared by the authorities aimed at brighter and more attractive conditions of training and a smarter uniform. This apparently is what the Labour party has been waiting for all these years I According to Senators Dooley and Dunn, Labour has been in the wilderness for fourteen years, and now, having reached office again, it has produced something! This, we are informed, is Labour's efficient defence policy! The report states that the rates of pay will be the same as under the compulsory system, and then quotes Brigadier-General Dodds as saying - It will be necessary to provide a more attractive uniform than that used by the compulsory trainees. The question of a betterfitting uniform has been under consideration for some time, and an attractive tunic has been evolved. Khaki will be retained. The tunic is cut on neater lines than previously, without pockets in the shirt, a half belt in place of a full belt, and upstanding collar and sleeves without cuffs. According to the individual ideas of each regiment trimming may be added by coloured collars, pipings, and buttons. As is the ease with the greater part of our plan, much depends upon available funds- Apparently the Government has ample funds at its disposal, since it has, according to Senator O'Halloran, agreed to pay a grant of £500,000 to South Australia - but it is estimated that the new uniform would not cost 50 per cent. more than that usually issued to trainees. It is also proposed that trainees should be issued with web equipment for purposes of training. I direct particular attention to the latter part of the statement, in view of the Government's declaration that compulsory military training has been suspended for reasons of economy. What does all this change amount to? Apparently , instead of a low-cut collar, volunteer trainees are to be supplied with uniforms with stiff upright collars and coloured pipings, and the new uniform is not to cost 50 per cent. more than that previously issued ! How all this must stir up the anti-military spirit of our friend Senator Rae! We can imagine how enthusiastically he will endorse this new defence policy of the Labour Government! At last we are to have an effective defence policy for Australia - a policy that conforms to Labour's ideals! On manyoccasions we have heard a number of honorable senators now supporting the Government denouncing the evils of militarism, and all the pomp and circumstance that attach to it. Boiled down, it would appear that the difference between militarism and Labour's idea of effective defence is the difference between an upright collar with coloured pipings and a collar that is not upright; between a full shirt with pockets and a shirt with none! WhenI was listening to Senator - Dunn, I had no idea that the only difference between the militarism as we have known it in the past, and an effective defence scheme as evolved by the Labour Government, is a difference in the cut of the military coat. I never thought that if the trainee was clothed in a loose-fitting tunic, he was a representative of militarism, but that if he were wearing a coat with a waist like a tailor's model, he conformed to Labour's latest idea of an effective defence unit. But turning for a moment from the satirical aspect, of Labour's defence policy, I desire, in serious mood, to direct the attention of the Senate to what is happening in other countries, and to indicate the views of governments of other countries, far more powerful than we are, concerning disarmament. The following is an extract from the Empire Parliamentary Association Report on Foreign Affairs, for July and August, 1929:- UNITED STATES Naval and Military Expenditure In announcing an investigation into military expenditure, the President (Mr. Hoover) made a remarkable statement, the importance of which was immediately recognized by the press. He pointed out that, according to official estimates, public expenditure for the next four years was expanding greatly, and that a striking feature in this situation was that the purely naval and military expenditures represented an increase over pre-war figures of no less than 530,000,000 dollars (£109,200,000). Proceeding, the President said: - The American people should understand that current expenditure on strictly military activities of the army and navy constitutes the largest military budget of any nation in the world to-day, and at a time when there is less real danger of extensive disturbance to peace than at any time in more than a half a century. The following table sets.out the naval and military expenditure of the four leading nations for the years 1927-28, 1928-29, and the estimated expenditure for 1929-30. For the purpose of clarity, I am giving the figures in pounds sterling : - In the case of the United States of America there has been an increase in three years of £25,000,000. The United Kingdom alone, of the four great powers, shows a reduction in expenditure amounting to £4,000,000, and I remind honorable senators that, in the last resort, Australia will have to look to Great Britain for her effective defence. France shows an apparent increase of over £20,000,000. but allowing for the fluctuation in exchange rates, the actual increase may be somewhat less. Japan shows an increase of £5,000,000 in four years. These figures, which are taken from the Empire Parliamentary Association's Report on Foreign Affairs for July and August, 1929, relate to the army, navy and air force. 44 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - The right honorable gentleman quoted only two years' figures in relation to France. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.They are the only years given in the report from which I am quoting. I give the following naval figures separately, because our national safety depends upon the maintenance of a navy. A nation cannot attack us unless it has a navy; and our safety lies in the possession of the British navy as a part of the British Empire. The following figures enable a comparison to be made between the naval expenditure in the year before the war with that of the present year - If we take into consideration the purchasing power of the £ sterling, it will be seen that the expenditure of the British navy during the last post-war year was in reality less than in pre-war years. 45 KRZ 0 0 LYNCH, Patrick Senator Lynch - In the United States of America the position is the reverse. 45 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - Yes. The figures are as follow: - Although Prance shows in respect of its naval expenditure an apparent reduction between 3913-14 and 1924-25 of from £18,440,000 to £11,928,185, there was, after making allowance for the value of the franc no actual reduction during that period. But let us have regard to the naval expenditure of the two nations in the Pacific - the United States of America and Japan - our neighbours; let us contrast their naval expenditure with that of other countries. A navy is the only thing that can threaten or defend us. The two Pacific nations which I have mentioned have increased their naval ex penditure, one from £28,000,000 to £7 6,000,000 and the other from £9,000,000 to £25,000,000. On the other hand the navy upon which we lean and live, has, taking the purchasing power of the sovereign into consideration, suffered a reduction of probably one-third in its expenditure during the last few years. These figures have to be borne in mind when we are considering a recent speech by the President of the United States. Mr. Hoover, a protagonist of peace, and an advocate of disarmament, in which he said in effect " The United States of America will not disarm prior to an agreement; the United States will disarm only when an agreement has been reached." Yet we are told by the Government of Australia - this lonely outpost in the Pacific - that it intends to suspend compulsory military training as a " gesture of peace ". Such action is more likely to be regarded as a gesture ofeither insanity or infinite foolishness. I now come to the second destructive act of this Government - the suspension of migration. Here again the Government acted precipitately. The first announcement, telegraphed from Canberra to the press, over the name of the Prime Minister, was to the effect that the Government had suspended assisted migration. That announcement was, of course, intended for consumption by those who during the election campaign had been gulled by certain stories, such as we have heard this afternoon, concerning the alleged relationship between migration and unemployment. But when it was pointed out to the Prime Minister that this assisted migration scheme did not stand alone - that it was linked up with a development scheme and a loan of £34,000,000 at a very low rate of interest to assist in the development of the States - the Government changed its ground. We were then told that it had not suspended assisted immigration, but had despatched a communication to the British Government setting out its views on the subject, and that when it received a reply the whole matter would be taken into consideration. What are the facts in regard to migration? For the first nine months of 1928 the arrivals and departures of British migrants were as follows : - Arrivals, 58,875 ; departures, 44,240; or an excess of 14,635 arrivals over departures. We then come to the bad days of unemployment, and we find there is an automatic check. For the first nine months of 1929, the arrivals were 48,775, and the departures 45,378, or an excess of arrivals over departures of only 3,397. If this vast continent, with a population of over 6,250,000, is faced with unemployment solely because of an additional 3,397 people in the Commonwealth, there must surely be something wrong. Are we to advertise it to the world that because the arrivals exceeded the departures by 3,000 odd during the first nine months of the present year, we have, according to. the stories of honorable senators opposite, an army of 200,000 unemployed? We are then told that the Government and its supporters do not object to our own kith and kin coming to Australia, but are strongly opposed to foreigners coming into this country' and taking the food out of the mouths of fellow-Australians. 46 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - That stung the right honorable senator. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.Yes, because it was not true. The figures in relation to foreign immigration disclose that for the first nine months of 1928 the number of arrivals was 10,108, and the number of departures 8,824, or an excess of 1,284 arrivals over departures for that period. Is it to be suggested that because 1,284 foreigners arrived in Australia within nine months the Commonwealth is being flooded with foreign migrants? But let us go further. For the first nine months of 1929, 7,876 foreign migrants arrived and 8,366 departed, so that the foreign population actually decreased by 490. If Senator O'Halloran is logical, he must urge that the excess of departures over arrivals during that period provided jobs for 490 Australians, but the probability is that that number of Australians lost their jobs because of the decrease in migration. Senator O'Halloran repeated today a statement concerning the influx of southern Europeans which he doubtless made on numerous occasions during the election campaign. The figures, in this connexion, show that for the first nine months of 1928 the arrivals totalled 4,181, and the departures 1,987, or an excess of 2,194 arrivals over departures. For the first nine months of 1929 when the restrictions imposed by the Bruce-Page Government became effective, the arrivals totalled 2,090 and the departures 2,228, so that there was actually an excess of 138 departures over arrivals. 46 JZ6 SOUTH AUSTRALIA ALP 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'HALLORAN - But what of the number already here ? Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.Does this Government propose to deport the foreigners who are already settled in Australia? Is the honorable senator prepared to tell the Germans in South Australia that the present Government proposes to deport them? Senator O'Halloran should remember that he is not now at the rear of a hall where ho can make interjections of that nature, and prevent a speaker from continuing. He has now to take the responsibility of his interjections. I would not advocate deporting any foreigners who have been successfully settled in Australia. Does the Government, of which Senator O'Halloran is a supporter, propose to deport them? If it does not, what is the meaning of his interjection? 46 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - I maintain that, preference in the matter of employment should he given to our own people. 46 KRZ 0 0 LYNCH, Patrick Senator Lynch - Did not the Queensland Government, of which the present Treasurer (Mr. Theodore) was the Leader, make a special canvass for this class of migrants, and even send representatives abroad to obtain them? Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.Yes. That government informed the Commonwealth Government that it had sent a letter to the British Government in which it pressed for assisted migration to Australia. In what way is Australia suffering from assisted migration? I turn to the report of the Development and Migration Commission, which gives an indication of the type of migrants which are coming to Australia. On page 38 of the Second Annual Report of that commission I find the following : - There is a steady demand in Australia for boys prepared to undertake farm work, and the State governments have shown a disposition to accept this class of migrant. It is recognized that the migration of lads, whilst they are still young enough to adapt themselves to new conditions and environment, is one of the most successful forms of migration. 46 KOZ SOUTH AUSTRALIA 0 0 HOARE, Albert Senator HOARE - Some of the boys committed suicide. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.That is a slander on the men who employ these boys, and a slander on Australia. I am .surprised that the honorable senator should make such a statement, which defames the good name of Australia. The great bulk of these boys are happy citizens of our country, are progressing,' and are well looked after. The figures for the various States are as follow: - 47 KOZ 0 0 HOARE, Albert Senator Hoare - -A splendid game to bring down wages. 47 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - The return continues - At the time to which these figures relate a Labour government was in office in Queensland. Were those migrants brought to Australia by a Labour government with the object of bringing down wages? I have also the figures in connexion with South Australia and Western Australia. Does 'Senator Hoare suggest that the Premier of Western Australia (Mr. Collier) is in favour of reducing wages ? 47 KOZ 0 0 HOARE, Albert Senator Hoare - What did the Western Australian Government do? 47 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - It submitted a requisition for 100 a month under the Young Australia League scheme, and 72 per month under the Church of England Council of Empire Settlement scheme. Senator HoareIf that is so it was just as bad as the Barwell crowd. 47 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - In addition there was a further requisition for adult farm labourers. Of these 830 were for Victoria and 500 for New South Wales, and no less than 2,150 were requisitioned by the Labour Government of Western Australia. In other words, in ibc twelve months covered by this report, the Labour Government of Western Australia requisitoned for more adult farm workers than did the remainder of Australia. Another class of requisition was that for domestic servants, and the following is a table of the number recorded :- - Although the introduction in December, 1926, of the free passage scheme for domestics has resulted in an increase of 52 per cent, in the number of domestics brought to Australia; the supply of that class of labour is still somewhat short of the demand. The facts are that every one of those migrants had a job to go to as soon- as he or she stepped on to the wharf ; and that there are still more employers asking for domestic help. Yet this Government has said to Great Britain, through its Prime Minister, "We have received some 10,000 of your unemployed. They are swamping us. It is true that our population increased by excess of arrivals over departures last year by only 3,000, but we cannot employ them all. Our unemployment problem is so acute that although every domestic servant that we brought to Australia in the last twelve months was given employment as soon as she landed, and did not put anybody out of work, and although the organizations concerned have letters from these boys, that we brought to Australia, saying they are being well trained and well brought up, with a future in front of them, we- do not want any more of your domestic servants or boys in future". Most of the domestics were unemployed girls from the middle districts of Lancashire. Their migration to Australia opened to them the' possibility of a future instead of their being allowed to suffer the pangs of hunger and even starvation, while we needed their services in Australia. Yet this Government says %o them " Stay away. There is work for you here but if you dome you might displace some hardy waterside worker in Sydney, or possibly some shearer in Queensland." The Government practically says to Great Britain " We ask you to keep your domestics but, whilst we cannot take those domestic servants or your boys and give them a home, in Australia, and a chance to become good citizens of this country, we urge you, for heavens sake to take our wheat, our wool, our wine, butter and dried fruits, and continue the preference you are giving on our wine and our dried fruits. Also, for heaven's sake, do notrefuse to lend us money* although we do not want your men." I think one might well paraphrase an old- doggerel and declare, " We don't want your girls, we don't want your boys; but, by jingo, we do want your money, and we want it badly. too." In effect, this Government says " We do not want your men because, whilst it may relieve your unemployment, it will, to some little extent, aggravate our unemployment problem. But we do want your money to help us to find work for our unemployed." Now I come to the third act of destruction, the suspension of licences to waterside workers. That is another gesture 10 the communistic comrades outside. The Government says in effect to them, " We are going to let you again enjoy yourselves in the good old way, and as soon, as it is safe we shall deal another deadly blow at this Transport Workers Act. We " will get rid of it altogether." And then, when- Senator O'Halloran's farmer friend sends his wheat to be shipped, probably next year, the other branch of the honorable senator's family, having done away with the Transport Workers Act, a nice little waterside workers' strike will be precipitated. Senator O'Halloran will promptly go into recess until the strike is over, and Senator Dooley will take his place in the interim, and ' talk about economic freedom, the brotherhood of man, and all that kind of thing. But Senator O'Halloran will resume business soon as the strike is over, and will talk once more to the farmers about the blessings of a compulsory wheat pool. Australia has had a few months of peace in the waterside industry, but now, by this act of destruction, we have an attempt to reintroduce industrial warfare on the waterfront. I have passed under review the three destructive acts of this new Labour Government. I come now to its one constructive act: the appointment of the Hibble tribunal. The recent election was won on a cry of wage reduction, and the first constructive act of the Government brings about a proposal for a reduction of wages. As soon as that finding is made by - the chairman of the tribunal appointed by the Prime Minister to investigate the trouble in the coal-mining industry it is denounced - and denounced by the Prime Minister himself, followed by his Treasurer. And what do our friends opposite intend to do about Johu Brown? They had a glorious time during the election in connexion with John Brown. From every platform they asserted that, by failing to prosecute John Brown, the Nationalist Government had thwarted the ends of justice. I can visualize Senator Dunn lifting the roof by his passionate vociferations regarding the setting aside of that prosecution. Honorable senators opposite declared that John Brown had caused a lockout, and that the course of the Government was clear. If it was a lockout then, it is still a lockout. This Government has been in -power for a month. What has it done with John Brown? Why has it not prosecuted him? Sitting suspended from G.lo to S p.m. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.I wish now to say a few words with regard to the Government's proposal to tamper with the £34,000,000 migration agreement. I have already dealt with the matter in regard to assisted migration. The agreement provides for the advancing of money for developmental purposes to the various States of the Commonwealth. As a matter of fact, the full £34,000,000 is available for works of a developmental character approved by the Commonwealth and British Governments at 1-J per cent, interest for the first five years and one-third of the effective rate of interest for a further five years. The terms of the agreement are of tremendous advantage to the States, who for the ten years during which most developmental works are un reproductive will pay a very cheap rate of interest for the money advanced to them. It is very unlikely, however, if this agreement is tampered with, that the British Government will be at all solicitous to extend the operation of that part of the agreement. It has financial difficulties of its own, and it was a very generous act on its part to agree to share the interest burden on our developmental works. I am, therefore, astonished that at a time like this, when money is required .for developmental work, in order to provide employment, a government which professes to be anxious about providing employment should be proposing to seek an alteration in the agreement that furnishes the States with money for that purpose. There is another feature of this agree- ment to which I wish to draw particular attention. It is an undoubted fact that, in the past, money has been squandered on public works that have not been fully investigated before being approved. Knowing this, the British and Commonwealth Governments made a stipulation that before the developmental works proposed to be undertaken under the migration agreement could be approved they had to be inquired into by a competent body to ascertain if they were economically sound. For that reason the Development and Migration Commission was appointed, chiefly because of the individual fitness of its members and also because as a composite body it could bring various types of minds to bear on the different questions likely to come before it for review. At first the various States looked upon this body with a rather jealous eye; they were rather suspicious of it, but gradually the commission, by working in with the States, lias gained the confidence of every State Government, and, what is equally important, that of the State departments. The latter have come to realize that it is a body whose purpose it is to assist thom, and not .to interfere with them in their work. It is no exaggeration to say that to-day the Development and Migration Commission has earned the full confidence and also the full cooperation of every State Government and State department. I therefore cannot understand why there should lie any proposal to interfere with it. I am led to believe that the proposal of the Government is to have the work done by some Commonwealth department. The Development and Migration Commission has been accepted by the States and State departments, because they have gradually come to realize that it is not in the true sense a Commonwealth Government department, but that it is a semi-independent body. If these State departments are now to subordinate themselves and their work' to the control of a Commonwealth Government department I predict that very serious difficulty and friction will soon arise. The States of Tasmania and Western Australia have received tremendous assistance from the Development and Migration Commission. When application was first made to the Bruce-Page Government for a continuance of the Tasmanian grant that Government thought it would be a good thing for the two administrations concerned to investigate the cause of Tasmania's financial positi'on. It suggested that the Development and Migration Commission should be asked to make an investigation on behalf of both governments, and report as to means by which the State might be able to carry on without so much assistance from the Commonwealth. That inquiry was made with full co-operation between the Commonwealth Government and the State Government, and as a result various recommendations were made for the reorganization of the Agricultural Department of Tasmania, and for the establishment of agricultural bureaux and forestry bureaux. Various measures were suggested for promoting co-operative effort in agriculture. All these recommendations have been put into effect by the Tasmanian Parliament, and it is generally agreed that the work done in that respect, has been of great .assistance to Tasmania, particularly in putting her on a much sounder financial footing. Western Australia having very extensive areas of Crown lands available for settlement has provided great opportunities for development, and consequently has received a largo amount of assistance under the migration agreement. The Development and Migration Commission, in this ' connexion, has gained the entire confidence of all parties in that State. When the intention of the Federal Labour Government was announced, Mr. Collier, the Labour Premier of Western Australia, referring to the proposed suspension of the clause of the migration agreement relating to assisted migration and the future of the Development and Migration Commission, said - " Without expressing any opinion on the broad matter of policy as to whether the Development and Migration Commission should he abolished or retained, I should like to say that its work in Western Australia has been very valuable and of great assistance to the State. Every proposal submitted to the commission by us has been examined most thoroughly, and for the past twelve months it has been making a careful study of the land settlement project known as the 3,000 farms scheme, with which is associated the construction of many hundreds of miles of roads and. railways and some important water supply works. If approved under the Migration Agreement, this big project can be carried out within five years, but without the assistance provided for under the agreement, the State would probably be unable to complete it within twenty years. Of course I cannot speak for the other States, but, so far as Western Australia is concerned, we have been greatly assisted through the investigations of the commission in our task of developing the State. That was reported in the West Australian of the 8th November, 1929. On the 15th November, 1929, Sir James Mitchell, Leader of the Opposition in the Western Australian Parliament, and Leader of the Nationalist party in the State, published an article in the West Australian dealing with migration and unemployment, in the course of which he said - The Commonwealth Prime Minister's request to the British Government for a temporary suspension of assisted migration during the present period of unemployment and trade depression, whatever its effects may be, should achieve good by focusing the attention of the people on some of the hard, and disagreeable yet inexorable facts of our economic life that can no longer be ignored. It cannot be the desire of the Federal Government that the population of Australia should not be increased. Mr. Scullin's. difficulty is the shortage of work offering for our own people, and his idea obviously is that the problem of unemployment cannot be solved except by stopping immigration. To my mind that is quite an erroneous view, but while Mr. Scullin's Government and other Governments in Australia hold it, there ought not to be any more migration to this country. We must not only banish unemployment, but also remove the fear of unemployment. At the same time it will be a very serious matter for this State if we are not to get the advantage of the cheap money under the migration agreement. It will be remembered that under the agreement we were to pay one per cent. On the money advanced for the first five years, and then one-third of the actual interest rate for the next five years, after which we were to assume full responsibility for the whole of the interest. So far we have received £4,489,000 under the arrangement, which has already saved us £600,000 in interest, while the total saving on that sum will be £1,346,936. This is an enormous advantage for a State that must have money for development work. If Britain is willing help this State to the extent of £10,000,000, as arranged, the saving in interest will be no less than £3,875,000.In other words, Britain has offered to assist the development of the State by advancing £10,000,000, and the interest concession represents a gift to the State of £3,875.000 compared with the interest liability on on equivalent amount borrowed in the ordinary way. People can judge for themselves what it will mean to the State if we lose that advantage. It will mean so much money less to provide employment under this heading, for if we borrowed an equal amount at ordinary interest rates the difference between the respective rates would necessarily have to be deducted from the money available to provide work. The same story can be told of all the States, but I want to give an instance of how the Development and Migration Commission has saved Queensland from a wasteful expenditure, which would have been a very serious burden to the State. The Queensland Labour Government submitted to the Queensland Parliament what is known as the Dawson Valley irrigation scheme. That scheme was proposed in all sincerity by an enthusiastic engineer, who obviously did not have full knowledge as regards soil and various other factors, which are essential to make an irrigation scheme a success. There was no investigation as to the products likely to be produced on the country to be irrigated, nor of the prospects of finding a profitable market for whatever was produced. Yet the Queensland Government was about to commit the State to this scheme. In order, however, to get the advantage of the cheap money under the migration agreement it made application to the Commonwealth Government to have the scheme brought under that agreement. That necessitated an investigation by the Development and Migration Commission, and when that investigation was made it was ascertained, first of all, that the soil and dairy experts of the Queensland agricultural departments had never been asked for a report as to the suitability of the country proposed to be irrigated, or as to the possibility of carrying on dairying in the area. 50 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - Is that not a reflection on the State government? 50 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - Possibly it is, but I am merely attempting to show how the Development and Migration Commission has prevented wasteful expenditure in Australia. If it had not been for the fact that under the terms of the migration agreement it was necessary to have an investigation by some competent body, the Dawson Valley Irrigation scheme would have been saddled on the taxpayers of Queensland to-day. After full investigation the commission reported adversely on the scheme and said that before the State should be committed to it experiments on a small scale should be carried on in various parts of the area in order to determine whether it would be possible to carry on similar operations on a big scale. It is possible that these experiments are now being conducted in Queensland to-day. That is an instance of the way in which The Development and Migration Commission prevented the people of Queensland from incurring a liability of £4,000,000. If the same procedure had been adopted in regard to soldier settlement how many millions of pounds would have been saved ro the various States? It is all very well to say that the States can look after these matters, but we know that millions of pounds have been squandered in soldier settlement because various schemes were not investigated before the State governments embarked on them. The body set up by the Bruce-Page Government to investigate in an impartial way altogether free from politics these proposals for expenditure and to look particularly into their soundness, has done good work. I have given two instances to-day in which it has saved Queensland and Victoria from an expenditure of huge sums of money. It would be a disaster to the Commonwealth to abolish a body, which is just the very thing we need in Australia to conduct investigations and prevent th6 reckless expenditure of money Money is going to be very hard to get in the future. We know that we should have been careful in the past. There is a double reason for being careful in the future. Yet here we have a government talking about unemployment and about providing employment by means of developmental works, proposing to get rid of the one body that has done effective work in Australia in the investigation of schemes on which public money was proposed to be spent. [Extension of time granted.'] 51 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - Did the commission report on the Clarence Valley scheme? Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.I think not, but it reported on the Lachlan River scheme. I point out that the States have gradually acquired the habit of placing proposed schemes before the commission before giving approval to them. In the two cases I have mentioned approval was given to the schemes before their submission to the commission, but in a number of other cases the States have first referred the matters to the commission for investigation, and when that body has reported adversely the schemes have not been proceeded with. 51 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - Did the commission report on the ability of the schemes to absorb further labour? Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.Every scheme recommended by the commission is one calculated to increase the absorptive powers of the Commonwealth. The Lachlan River scheme, for instance, concerns a tract of 300,000 acres of land from which the production can be increased immensely. 51 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - How many additional men will that scheme absorb? 51 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir George PEARCE - I suggest that Senator Daly, who is now administering the department, should read the report of the commission. He will then see that it deals with the matter he has raised. Every scheme referred to the commission has been dealt with from the point of view of its increasing the absorptive powers of the Commonwealth. 51 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - The Development and Migration Commission has admitted otherwise. 51 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE - Before the Development and Migration Commission is abolished by the Government I hope that the matters to which I have referred will be seriously considered by them. Dealing with the Development and Migration Commission the Governor-General's Speech stated - My Ministers propose to co-ordinate the functions of the Development and Migration Commission which was established in accordance with the Development and Migration Act of 1.926, with those of the Commonwealth Council of Scientific and Industrial Research; and this work will be brought under the direct control of the Department of the Prime Minister. As the work of the Commission is already under the direct control of the Department of the Prime Ministerno change is contemplated. What is meant by that paragraph? The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research is an entirely different body from the Development and Migration Commission and has altogether different functions. How can there he co-ordination between a body dealing with developmental matters and one whose business it is to make scientific investigations? The members of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research may know nothing of developmental matters; indeed, they were appointed because of their knowledge, not of such matters, hut of science and the application of science. The members of the Development and Migration Commission, on the other hand, were chosen not because they knew a great deal about science, but because they had been trained to judge the economic value of developmental schemes. Whoever is responsible for the proposal outlined in that paragraph does not understand the different functions of the two bodies. The Government's proposal is almost equivalent to suggesting that the work of the Commissioner of Railways in Victoria should be co-ordinated with that of the University of Melbourne. That would mean that instead of Mr. Clapp controlling the Victorian railways, the University of Melbourne would control them. The proposal of the Government will either destroy the usefulness of the Development and Migration Commission or load the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research with duties for which it is entirely unfitted. No persons in the community would be more ready to admit their inability to undertake the work of the Development and Migration Commission than would the members of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. 52 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - Members of the two bodies meet together frequently, and did so meet while the right honorable gentleman was in office. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.The Department of Markets deals with marketing of our produce; the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research deals with research problems affecting production ; the Development and Migra tion Commission deals with the extension of fruit production, dairying, and other similar matters. In some cases the matters dealt with by these bodies are closely related; and, in order to prevent overlapping, their members meet with the Minister once a month in order to corelate their work in such a way that overlapping is prevented. That is not coordination in the sense that one body carries out the functions of another. It is merely an endeavour to avoid the danger of one department doing the work of another. 52 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - There is no intention to allow one department to undertake the functions of another. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.Another destructive act of the Government since it assumed office was the suspension of licences for waterside workers. This is another instance of the Government's interference with a deliberate legislative act of this Parliament without the authority of Parliament. What is the object of suspending these licences, seeing that, for the first time since 1917, we have had a period of peace on the waterfront? The Government which talks of industrial peace and of solving the problem of unemployment has dealt a blow at the one measure which has brought industrial peace on the waterfront. 52 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - That piece of legislation has caused injustice on the waterfront. Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.It is evident that the hand of the Government has been forced by the extreme element in its ranks. The result will probably be that, instead of the peace which has reigned on the waterfront during recent months, there will be a repetition of the scenes of the past, when the industries of this country were held up. Should trouble again develop, what would the Government do? We should probably find it arranging futile conferences, and granting all sorts of concessions to those who caused the trouble. The restoration of peace would be at the expense of the community. The Government won many votes because of its declared intention not to impose the amusement tax proposed by the late Government. The American moving picture interests in this country, by the expenditure of much money and the circulation of propaganda, did a great deal to assist the Labour party to win the election. The Government has announced that it will not proceed with the taxation proposals of the Bruce-Page Government in respect of amusements; but it proposes to tax the industries of this country by imposing increased taxation through the Post Office. The money which the late Government expected to derive from the taxation of amusement companies will now be derived from an additional tax on newspapers, periodicals, telephones and telegrams. Instead of the American moving picture interests assisting to balance the ledger, the money will be derived from the industries of Australia. A peculiar paragraph in the Governor-General's speech is that which reads : - "A bill to make better provision for the control of gold reserves in the Commonwealth will be submitted to you." I have not heard that there is anything wrong with the control of gold reserves in Australia, although I have read many financial statements by banking companies and the chairmen of directors of various financial institutions. I have studied many of the cricitisms of both governmental and private financial institutions; but nowhere have I seen any suggestion that there is anything wrong with the position in relation to our gold reserves. What is behind this cryptic utterance in the Governor-General's Speech? Does the Government mean to use the printing press? That appears to be the meaning of the paragraph. I warn the Government that if it tampers with the gold reserves in that way the troubles which confront Australia to-day will be accentuated. Not only would it create further unemployment, but it would also increase prices, raise the cost of production, and deal a deadly blow at the industries of this country. A government which tampered with the gold reserves by issuing more paper money would be like children in a powder magazine; it would be playing with the most dangerous thing to be. found in the legislative arsenal. The speech contains the following extraordinary paragraph : - Owing to reduction in the price oi wool, the prospects of an unfavourable wheat harvest and other causes, the Commonwealth is faced with a difficult period. These causes, important as they are in our economic life, arc, however, seasonal in character. Is it true that a reduction in the price of wool is seasonal in character? The speech continues - There is no reason to believe that n continuance of these conditions is likely, am i there should be a return to normal prosperity in the coming year. In the meantime, tinpublic revenues of the Commonwealth uri- being adversely affected. If that were the only ill effect of the reduction in the price of wool, the position would not 'be so serious as it really is, but not merely our public revenues, but our private revenues as well, artbeing adversely affected. That means that the fund from which wages are paid is being adversely affected. Wheat and wool are our two staple products, and the money received for them supplies the bulk of the wages fund from which labour is paid in Australia. Although they know that these are the facts, the reported utterances of Ministers lead us to believe that these two industries, reduced as they are in income, will be still further hit by some of the proposals contemplated by the Government. I propose to conclude my references to the Speech of the Governor-General, by directing attention to the following paragraph : - My Ministers look forward to the Imperial and Economic Conferences to be held next year with the sincere hope that they will be able to co-operate with His Majesty's Government in Croat Britain to the lasting benefit of the Commonwealth of Australia and of the other members of the British Commonwealth of Nations. I ask them, when they meet the representatives of the British Government at the Imperial and Economic Conferences, not to expect Great Britain to make all the concessions; to remember that there is something due from Australia. They must not expect Great Britain to keep up her navy and her army and to continue expenditure upon the Singapore naval base while we in Australia disarm, and render the people of this country unfit to defend themselves. I urge them to remember that, if they expect the British taxpayer to do his bit in regard to effective defence of the Empire, the people of Australia should be prepared likewise to do their part in providing for the defence of this country. I ask them also not to expect the British Government to extend sympathy and assistance to our industries by way of preferential duties while we pile up duties against the British manufacturers who are seeking a market for their goods in this country. I remind them that it will be a very bad introduction to the Imperial and Economic Conferences if they endorse the statement made by the present Minister for Customs (Mr. Fenton) the other day, that this Government intends to build up a tariff wall so high as to prevent the introduction into Australia of all goods that can be manufactured here - in other words, to prevent Britain from finding a market for any of her manufactures in the Commonwealth. I ask them to remember that the British preferential duties in regard to Australian sugar, wine and dried fruits, as well as many other primary products are of substantial benefit to Australia; they are helping to keep many people of this country in employment. If we expect Britain to grant concessions to Australia, we must in return, be prepared to show some consideration for British manufactures. Honorable senators on this side will give government measures fair criticism and fair treatment. "We shall not take advantage of the fact that we have the numbers, and so we shall not act in any partisan spirit. I can promise the Leader of the Senate that while honorable senators on this side will exercise to the full their right to review legislation, their criticism of Government measures will not be offered in any partisan spirit. Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW (Queensland) [8.35]. - After the speech delivered by the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Sir George Pearce) it is not necessary for me to traverse much of the ground covered by the speech of the Governor-General. I wish, however, to direct particular attention to the Ministry's proposals for the defence of Australia as they affect the activities of the department over which I had the honour to preside as a member of the late Government. Compulsory military training was introduced by legislative act, and it has now been discontinued by an administrative act. We all know what would have been said by supporters of the present Government if the Bruce-Page administration, without reference to Parliament, had introduced any change in policy on such an important subject as the defence of Australia. 54 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - Is it not a fact that the previous Government, by administrative action, suspended compulsory military training in certain country districts ? Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.Yes, but that was done for reasons of economy. It was found impossible economically to provide the staff and equipment for the training of youths in certain isolated country districts. 54 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - Then it is all a question of cost after all. 54 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon W Kingsmill - Order! I remind the Senate that the speech of an honorable senator cannot consist of a series of interrogations and answers. The Leader of the Senate will have an opportunity to reply at a later stage. It will tend materially to shorten the debate if this rule is observed. Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.I challenge the statement that this Government had a mandate to interfere with the defence policy of this country. At the general election in November of last year, the Nationalist Government stated definitely that it stood for the maintenance of compulsory training as part of its defence policy, and that Ministry was returned with a majority. The election a few weeks ago was fought on an entirely different issue. I admit that the Leader of the Government (Mr. Scullin) intimated that the Labour party stood to its former policy, but the only issue before the people concerned federal arbitration. It is inconceivable that the people within twelve months would change their mind on such a vital subject as the defence policy of Australia as it has existed for eighteen or nineteen years. SenatorRae. - Will you take us to the country on that issue and see whether the people will endorse it? 55 10000 0 0 PRESIDENT, The The PRESIDENT - Order ! Again I remind the Senate that it is not necessary or advisable for questions to be asked while an honorable senator is speaking. Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.We are informed that it is the Government's intention to retain the present military organization which consists of four infantry divisions, two cavalry divisions and three mixed brigades. To maintain this strength it will be necessary to enlist a certain number of men, and experience has proved that it is not possible to secure them under the voluntary system. 55 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - That system provided 360,000 men for the war at all events. Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.But the organization was built up under the compulsory system. What is the history of the defence organization of Australia? Prior to federation our defence forces consisted of volunteers and militia organised in small units in different parts of thecountry. One of the principal reasons for federation was that we should be able to establish a co-ordinated system of defence. Immediately following federation defence was taken over by the Commonwealth. At that time the units had to be raised where the men were prepared to volunteer, and because of the weakness of that system no regard could he paid to the strategic needs of the country. In 1910, the Cook Government commissioned the late Lord Kitchener, the greatest military organizer in the British Empire, to investigate and report upon the defence organization of the Commonwealth, and in his comprehensive report Lord Kitchener recommended that to provide for the defence needs of Australia it would be necessary to introduce compulsory military training. Shortly after that report was received the Cook Government was defeated. The Fisher Government came into office, and, be it said to the credit of that Labour Administration, it gave effect to Lord Kitchener's recommend'ation. Thus it came about that a Labour government introduced compulsory military training in Australia, a system which provided the necessary officers, and noncommissioned officers for the various units sent from the Commonwealth at the com mencement of the war. Hitherto it has been the proud boast of the Labour party that it was responsible for compulsory military training in this country. It was also the proud boast of the Labour party, led by the late Mr. Fisher, that Australia was in the war to the last man and the last shilling, and certain members of the party handed in a blank cheque on both those promises. It is interesting to recall what the present Prime Minister (Mr. Scullin) said in the second-reading debate on the Defence Bill of 1910. His remarks are to be found on page 6218 of Hansard of 16th November, 1910. Mr. Scullin said - The Government are to be congratulated on their courage in providing for universal training with a minimum of inconvenience to those concerned. That was a most commendable statement for a responsible member of this legislature to make. Let us now examine the situation and test the courage of the Prime Minister to-day. It is apparent that the Government did not contemplate making this drastic change immediately, as the Minister for Defence (Mr. A. Green) is reported in the Melbourne Argus of the 26th October as having stated that - . . No alteration in routine or policy would be made without careful consideration, and the advice of every responsible officer would be welcome. A definite defence policy has not yet been evolved by the Ministry. For the present, the existing conditions in the department would not be disturbed. . . . The Ministry has not discussed the abolition of military training, and it will be months before this question becomes a matter for discussion. When the more pressing problems have been dealt with, we will make a comprehensive review of the defence policy. Apparently that announcement was made by the Minister with the approval of the Government. The honorable member for Ballarat (Mr. McGrath) is also reported in the Argus of the 29th October in the following way: - Ballarat, Monday. - Mr. McGrath referred to-night to a statement by the new Minister for Defence that the Ministry had not yet. given consideration to its policy concerning compulsory military training. Mr. McGrath said that Mr. Green should know well that the abolition of compulsory training' had always been_ a fundamental plank in the Laborer party's platform, and his statement therefore was. certainly ill-advised. Compulsory military training would vanish before Christmas. In this instance, it is a case of "the tail wagging the clog." One of the recruits has been effectively instructing the officers what they should do in the matter of defence. It is difficult to reconcile both statements. The Minister for Defence accepted full responsibility for the statement he made concerning the defence policy of the Government; but within three days his utterances were contradicted by a member of the party who is not a Minister. The opinion of the member of the Labour party which I have quoted is sufficient to show that the Government lias been influenced by the extremists in that party who have their minds always on Moscow, where, I may remind them, there is plenty of compulsion, particularly in the matter of military training. By administrative act the Government has suspended military training. Why has this course been adopted? 56 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - To fall into line with the other dominions. 56 KLU 0 0 GLASGOW, William Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW - That is not so. Is it because the system is too costly, that it is ineffective, or does the Government consider that it is wrong in principle? 56 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - Because it is wrong in principle. 56 KLU 0 0 GLASGOW, William Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW - Does the honorable senator realize that in this great democracy in which we are privileged to live every adult has a voice in the government of the country, and thus enjoys the full privileges of citizenship. Those who enjoy such privileges should accept their share of the responsibility for the defence of the country. As the Defence Act provides that it is the responsibility of every able-bodied man between the ages of 16 and 60 to take up arms in defence of his country, should it be necessary, it is the duty of the Government to see that every able-bodied man is given an opportunity to undertake military training to enable him to serve his country should the occasion arise. 56 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - The next war will be one in which science will play a most important part, and man and gun power will be of little value. 56 KLU 0 0 GLASGOW, William Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW - We have heard that statement on numerous occasions. In this instance it is made by the Leader of the Government in the Senate, who is a member of a Cabinet not a single member of which has the slightest knowledge of defence matters. I say unhesitatingly that if there should unfortunately be another international conflict, man power will still be the deciding factor. In suspending compulsory military training the Government has absolutely failed in its duty, it has been recreant to its trust. 56 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - The honorable senator believes in conscripting youths before they have reached the age at which they are entitled to vote. 56 KLU 0 0 GLASGOW, William Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW - Although youths cannot vote until they reach the age of 21 years, they enjoy many of the privileges of citizenship before .reaching that age, and undergo the initial period of their training at a time when it is not likely to seriously interfere with the commercial or other activities in which they may' be engaged. As it has been stated that compulsory military training is more costly than th: volunteer system, it is interesting to notethat in 1908-09, the last year in which provision was made for meeting the expenditure under the voluntary system, the amount provided on the Estimates under this heading was £723,46% whereas for the year 1929-30 provision was made for the expenditure of £1,428,271. In the earlier period which I mentioned, a citizen force establishment of 23,794, militia and volunteers, was provided for, whereas the citizen force establishment for 1929-30 is 50,000. Taking into consideration the decreased purchasing power of money, the £1,428,271 which was recently provided for is equivalent to approximately £900,000 in 190S-09. Considering that the citizen force is practically twice as strong as it was in 1908-09, it is clear that the compulsory system is less costly than the voluntary method, particularly when we remember that the present day organization is more complex and that it contains a larger percentage of specialized units and technical equipment, than was the case some years ago. Under the voluntary system the period of enlistment was for only three years, but not more than 50 per cent, of the men remained in the forces for- eighteen months. This meant in many cases that they were provided with uniforms which were used for only a few months. Attendances were irregular, and the time of the officers and instructional staff was too frequently taken up with parades of insufficient strength. There was, moreover, no regular turnover of men who could be regarded as reserves. Some of the enthusiasts remained in their units for long periods, and performed excellent service, but on the other hand, many others became ineffective after their first camp, when the novelty of soldiering had worn off. Further, under the compulsory system the men can be trained at places which are of strategic importance; it also provides a means of getting the men to attend parades. Some honorable senators who have served in the various units, will be able to speak of the excellent spirit that exists in the Citizen Forces. There has never been a larger number of officers and noncommissioned officers than there are at present; the total now exceeds 10,000. We have never had a larger number of trained officers and non-commissioned officers, and it is absolutely hopeless under the voluntary system to expect to get a sufficient number to keep the present organization going on a voluntary basis. If the Government think that it can do so, it will be disappointed. 57 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - What did General Sir John Monash say concerning compulsory military training? Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.I am satisfied that he will be very disappointed to find that the system is being suspended. 57 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - He said it was an expensive farce. Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.I do not recall General Monash ever having made such a statement. There are in this chamber honorable senators with military service who will readily admit that it is anything but an expensive farce. Under the present system there is a regular intake of recruits and a regular output of men, who have undergone training in a systematic manner over a definite period at a minimum of cost. That the system is not ineffective is clearly shown by the results achieved during the Great War. The Naval Board reported that, from a naval viewpoint, the system proved the reverse of ineffective, and that after only three years experience of compulsory training the board in 1914 was able to mobilise the numbers required within 24 hours after the declaration of war. On the military side, it may be stated that the success obtained in the organization and training of the Australian Imperial Force was due largely to the existence of a scheme of universal training. At very short notice we were able to mobilise, organize and despatch overseas one division, and a light horse brigade, and these were followed shortly by another division and two light-horse brigades. About a year later we had at the front four infantry divisions and four light horse brigades. That was a wonderful achievement, when we consider that in Australia we had only a citizen force. It was possible only because we enjoyed the benefits of a compulsory military training system. In 1909, the number of officers was only 1,696, but in 1914 there were 3,449.It would be impossible to obtain that number of officers under the voluntary system. Anyone with experience will admit that the compulsory system is the more economic one. Statistics disclose that, under it, it costs only £6 per year to clothe, pay, and train a man. No other system can approach it for economy. 57 K0F 0 0 PEARCE, George Senator Sir George Pearce - Under the voluntary system the uniform alone will cost £6. Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW. That is so. If the Government desired so earnestly to adopt the voluntary system why did it not consult the Council of Defence before taking such a drastic step ? 57 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - The Council of Defence has no right to fix matters of policy. 57 KLU 0 0 GLASGOW, William Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW - I admit that; but much good would have accrued from such a consultation. I personally could have suggesteda method which would have given the voluntary system a chance: that of continuing the present system for three years, allowing the quota that had served two years to go out next year, the quota with one year's service to go out the following year, and that which had just been called up to go out the third year. Under such a plan and over that period the voluntary system could have been grafted on. to that which has been discarded, and it would have had a chance of success. Instead, as Senator Pearce has said, the Government tinkers with this matter as it has done with many others. It was in such haste to obey the ultimatum that it received from the extremists that it did not consider anybody, not even the Service. Honorable senators on this side keenly regret the action of the Government. This is a matter of high policy which should have been discussed in this chamber before action was taken. One can easily imagine what honorable senators opposite would have said had a Nationalist government followed a similar course. 58 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - I suggest that the honorable senator should take a walk across the King's Hall and visit another place, when he will appreciate the mandate that has been given to this Government. 58 KLU 0 0 GLASGOW, William Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW - Senator O'Halloran knows very well that the recent election was fought on the arbitration issue, and that the change was brought about by the wild and impossible promises made by his party and to-day exposed by Senator Pearce. The Government has acted in a most irresponsible way, without considering the defence needs of the country. Experience has proved that the voluntary system will not give us the necessary men to enable the country to maintain an adequate organization. Further, to indicate how the Government is tinkering with other matters, I quote the following sentence from the Speech of His Excellency the Governor-General - The question of maintaining a separate organization for the Air Force having been brought under the notice of my Ministers by officers of the Defence Department, the Defence Committee was instructed to investigate and report to the Council of Defence. Who are the officers of the department who have brought the matter under the notice of Ministers? What a remarkable statement to record in the Governor-General's Speech! And no decision was arrived at by the council! Naturally, Australia cannot at present afford a large air force. That force may have a threefold role. It might be ordered to adopt an independent role, or it might be ordered to co-operate with the army or the navy. It is essential that we should have one co-ordinated Air Force. As the navy now exists that arm of the service would - require about fifteen planes. Surely the Government does not seriously contemplate the creation of a separate service with its own organization and training establishments to provide the necessary services for such a small number of planes? When I was Minister for Defence I went thoroughly into the problem and satisfied myself that the most economical way to train this arm to provide for our defence needs was to have one homogeneous air force. In the event of trouble it would be possible for such a force to play an independent role or to act in cooperation with the army or the navy. In the latter case, it would come under the orders of the commander of the army or the navy. I hope that the Government is not going to cut our diminutive Air Force into separate distinct entities for the army and the navy. The Governor-General's Speech continues on this subject - My Ministers have, however, asked for a report on the possibilities -of co-ordinating the work of the Air Force with that of Civil Aviation The roles of the Air Force and Civil Aviation are absolutely different and distinct. In civil aviation the motto should be " Safety first ", and every pilot who flies a commercial plane should see that he adopts that motto. But a war-plane pilot is taught all sorts of evolutions in the air, as it is only by being expert in aerobatics that he has a chance of victory when he joins issue with an enemy plane. That is why one sees army pilots performing all sorts of evolutions in the air, apparently, to the uninitiated, for amusement. I do not think that it would be wise for the Government to amalgamate the functions of Civil Aviation with those of the Air Force. Again, the late Nationalist Government always let contracts for the various civil aerial services and the establishment * of different air routes. This Government would be well advised to continue that policy. I suggest that before honorable senators opposite plunge into government enterprises they should take a trip te my State, Queensland, and inquire into the experiences of the State Labour Government in that regard. That information would be of considerable value not only to them, but to the Commonwealth, as it would save the community a very heavy and futile expenditure of public money. Civil aviation is merely another and a new means of transport, and I had contemplated advising the late Government to bring it under the administration of the Minister for Transport. I make the suggestion to the present Government, as it would enable them properly to coordinate the various means of transport. Just as we do not wish to see roads running in competition with railways, so we do not wish to see an air force competing where a very efficient and expeditious land service is already established. The Federal Nationalist Government established commercial air services over routes in the back country of Queensland and Western Australia, and from the latter State to the Eastern States, through Adelaide to Cootamundra and Melbourne. Not only did that policy assist civil aviation, but at the same time it enabled people in our remote centres to make contact with our more densely populated areas. I should like the Government to pause, before taking any further drastic action such as it has adopted in regard to defence. That step is a serious blow to Australia, and I am satisfied that before many years pass it will have to be retraced. 59 JYG VICTORIA NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT . - I have carefully perused the Governor-General's Speech, and have come to the conclusion that it is to be distinguished from all others which I have heard in this chamber by reason of the omissions from it. It is difficult to find in it one specific statement; where a subject is mentioned it is in the most vague and general terms. Apparently the Government is afraid to pin itself down to a. definite policy on any subject at all. For example, I have failed to find in the speech, the slightest reference to a matter which has been mentioned definitely in every other Governor-General's Speech since I entered this chamber: that of preference to returned soldiers. I ask the Government to define its attitude in that respect. Is it going to cast that principle overboard as it has done with many others? 59 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - The Nationalist Government honored the principle more in the breach than the observance. 59 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - My party always honored the principle of preference to returned soldiers. 59 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - What about the returned soldiers on the Port Adelaide wharves, who were dismissed and replaced by 147 Europeans. 59 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Even returned soldiers have to obey the law of the land. If they refused to work on the wharves naturally others had to take their place. However, I leave Senator O'Halloran to settle that matter with his State authorities. The Federal Government did not employ those returned soldiers. I reiterate that my party has always consistently observed the principle of preference to returned men, and since it is reported that that vital principle has been abandoned I should like to have a statement one way or the other from the Leader of the Government in the Senate. If the Government intends to abandon the principle, where did it receive its mandate? With Senator Sir William Glasgow, I regret exceedingly the abolition of compulsory military training. Can any honorable senator point to anything in Mr. Scullin's policy-speech which would give the slightest indication that it was the intention of the Labour party to abandon the principle of compulsory military training. The only mention of the subject of defence in his policy speech was the cryptic reference he made to the adequate defence of Australia which could he construed to mean anything from a regular army downwards? Of course, Ministers will say, " We are merely suspending compulsory training. We do not propose to alter the act, and at any time it is open to any one. to restore compulsory training by a stroke of the pen." If Ministers are convinced of the necessity for this policy, let them bring in a bill to abolish compulsory military training. We are prepared to give them a chance to get a mandate from the people on it. It has been said here to-day that the Ministry consulted its experts before making this change of policy. The statement is absolutely incorrect. A public announcement was made by Mr. Scullin to clear Sir John Monash and Sir Harry Chauvel of the charge that otherwise might very well have been laid against them - that of having advised this change of policy. They made it very clear to Mr. Scullin that that must not on any account be said of them. Two of the greatest living soldiers to-day, who could have been consulted before this change of policy was brought about, were not consulted. 60 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - They had no right to be consulted in regard to a change of policy. 60 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - The policy announced by the party was the adequate defence of Australia, and not the abolition of compulsory military training. 60 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - The policy announced was clearly and definitely the abolition of. compulsory military training. 60 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - I hope that the honorable senator will point out to me any such statement in Mr. Scullin's policy-speech. It is true that it is in the Labour party's platform; but in Victoria we have been accustomed to hearing Mr. Hogan say, "We do not mind what is in the platform; that is only for the groundlings. This is what we are going to do this session." 60 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - "When did he say that ? 60 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - On the last occasion ou which he was returned he said, " That is all right for the wharfies; but I am not the kind of man to bring in any wild schemes." 60 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - Can the honorable senator name any place where Mr. Hogan made that statement, or give the date on which it was made? 60 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - I can get the information for the honorable senator. Sir John Monash and Sir Harry Chauvel have complained that the policy of compulsory military training was jeopardized by the economy forced by the late Government. They said to the late Government, " You have cut it to the bone until it is verging on extinction." 60 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - The late Government spent all the money, and now the present Government is expected to retrieve the position. 60 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - The nucleus was much reduced. 60 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - If it is useless, let us abolish it. 60 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - It would be understandable if the Government said, " We have cut down compulsory military training to such an extent that it is useless, and we might as well abolish it." But the present Government has cut down the system still further so that we have it no longer the nucleus of an army. It must not be imagined that by some magic an efficient army can be produced in a day or two from an insignificant nucleus. Sir John Monash and Sir Harry Chauvel were brought into a room and told that the question of compulsory military training had already been decided and must not be discussed, and that they must produce something in its stead. Was that a fair way in which to treat experts? 60 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - Why not? It is their job. 60 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - It is their job to tell us how best to defend Australia. The only task the Government set them was to -find some sort of substitute for what had been abolished. I hope, therefore, honorable senators opposite will not endeavour to camouflage the issue and lay the blame on these experts in order to save their own skins. Why did not Ministers ask these distinguished military gentlemen for a straightout opinion as to the best way in which Australia could be defended? Had they done so they would have got a straightforward recommendation, and the Government could then have decided whether to follow it out or not. It is ray opinion that the nucleus we had could not be further reduced without paralysing its usefulness. We can, of course, decide to have one or two divisions. Ministers say that they propose to maintain five divisions, yet they cut down the nucleus to about half the number of men previously in training. It is a matter of impossibility. Our forces were cut to the bone before. i am awaiting with interest the full proposals of the Government. I am by no means a militarist. In my first term in Parliament I fought against the proposal of the then government to put trainees into camp for three months, and with the help of Senator Gardiner, I fought against the proposal to apply the provisions of the British Army Act to tha Australian forces in time of peace. My object has always been to ensure the adequate defence of Australia and I can assure honorable senators, with all my experience and reputation, that what the present Government proposes will not provide that adequate defence. 61 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - Does the honorable senator think that the Australian "War Council would know anything about the matter? « 61 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - The Government did not give that Council an opportunity to offer an opinion on the subject. 61 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - I think it did. 61 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - I should be glad indeed if the Assistant Minister were in a position to assure us that that was done. Senator Hoare has interjected that during the recent war, with a little training, Australia produced the finest soldiers in the world. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was a soldier during the Boer war and from the outbreak of the last war until its finish, and I can assure the honorable senator that he is totally incorrect. I enlisted in the first week of the Great "War and was appointed to the command of a battalion at Broadmeadows. I had the pick of the officers and noncommissioned officers who came to us under the compulsory training system, and I was ordered to enlist trained men only. I was given the northern . district of Victoria in which to enlist them, and finding that I could not secure the requisite numbers of trained men there I enlisted any likely man that came along. Colonel McCay told me that I had not obeyed orders. I admitted that I had not done so, but asked to be given three weeks in which to train the men I had enlisted, and offered to discharge at the end of that time any man he could pick out as not having had previous ex perience. At the end of the three weeks, Colonel McCay had a parade, but he could not pick out one man who had not had previous training. He said to me, as honorable senators have said to-day, " What is the use of our compulsory training? We spend thousands of pounds on it yet in three weeks you can produce men equal to those who have previously been trained." I replied that I could not have done it but for the fact that I had been given the choice of the experts to take charge of the untrained men. Nevertheless, those men were not even then to be regarded as soldiers. They had merely a veneer of the soldier. That was about the end of August. Steady training was continued until the middle of October, with drill every day and even at night. The men were drilled all the way to Egypt and when they arrived there on the 6th December they were drilled morning, noon and night in the desert until the following April when we set off for Gallipoli and delivered the attack that made the name of Australia famous. Even then these men were not trained soldiers. Had they at that time acquired the absolute mastery of the art of war which they had gained by 1918 when I led them at Villiers-Brettouneux, their casualties would have been nothing compared with what they were at the landing. They attempted to do things which in France they would have recognized as impossible or as requiring other means of achievement. They were the First Division, a body of absolutely picked men, the cream of Australia, whose appearance and intelligence were favourably commented 'upon by every one who came in contact with them, but at the end of nine months they were still raw. It is said by Senator Daly that war is becoming more scientific. Of course it is, but that does not mean that soldiers can do without training. *As a matter of fact it means that they require more training. The greatest advocate of a mechanized army, Major Liddell Hart, is of the opinion that by reason of the scientific training required all armies should now consist of regular soldiers. 61 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - What is wrong with training soldiers for peace? 61 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Unfortunately people like the Kaiser insist on having war and in those circumstances what can a man do? I had no wish for war, but when Mr. Andrew Fisher sent along and said, " Colonel, your men are wanted. Will you put up a notice and ask for volunteers?" I did the one thing it seemed possible for me to do in those days. I put my name on the top and said, "Boys, who is coming with me ?" I find that most of the people who are so enthusiastic in asking for a volun tary system are those who want the other fellow to volunteer. SenatorO'Halloran. - Was that the experience of other dominions where conscription does not operate? 62 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - During the war, conscription operated in every dominion. 62 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - To-day it does not operate in any dominion except Australia and New Zealand. 62 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Canada maintains a regular army. It is small but it is efficient. It also has in the mounted police a very fine cavalry body. We have nothing. 62 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - After an expenditure of £60,000,000? 62 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - All that we had has been abolished by this Government. Will the honorable senator and his friends go out into the suburbs and ask men to join up at 4s. a day? It is all right to do so when every one must undergo a certain course of training. Then it is right to expect each man to make some sacrifice. But it is quite a different matter to ask a man to volunteer to train himself so that he may be fit to defend his country at the rate of 4s. a day. 62 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - Under a volunteer system a man need not do it if he does not like it. 62 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Then the alternative is to leave the country open to the first comer. In the event of enemy forces landing on our shores, who would be expected to meet them? Would it be the men who had voluntarily enlisted? 62 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - That would be better than sending boys to meet them. 62 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - A boy who has been trained does not forget his training when he receives his discharge. Many of the present officers in our citizen forces long ago completed their compulsory training. But they cannot maintain their efficiency unless they have material to train. 62 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - The men who went from Australia to the great war, and did so well, were all volunteers. 62 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Even with officers like Sir John Monash - one of the finest brains in the army - we found that we could not train men in nine months. Sir John Monash started his military career as a volunteer. He built up a splendid library, and attained to the highest rank by his own efforts. 62 JZ6 0 0 O'HALLORAN, Michael Senator O'Halloran - He is a fine product of the volunteer system. 62 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - During recent years, the course of training has been made so interesting that the trainees are keen to continue it. In a democratic community it is not right that only those who volunteer should undertake the defence of the country. 62 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - Both Sir John Monash and the honorable senator himself were volunteers. What better products of the volunteer system could we have? 62 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Had it not been for the compulsory training of preceding years we could not have done what we did in the war. Australia's wonderful effort there was the result of the compulsory training system; the Australian Imperial Forces were the product of the compulsory training system. Had we attempted to bring a whole army into being at once, as the Americans did, we should have failed utterly. That country already had a regular army; its material was as good as ours; but they were entirely ignorant of the rudiments of war, even after fifteen months' training in their own country. At the battle of Hamel they were sandwiched between our own men, and they performed magnificently; but later, when they went into action alone, they were not only defeated, but massacred. The men were the same as our own - they were good men - but they were untrained. We built up our force gradually, using the trained men to instruct the others. It was not done in a day, and, while we were training, the first volunteer army was sacrificed. The sacrifice of the " Old Contemptibles " saved civilization. 63 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - Sir John Monash described as farcical the system until recently in operation. 63 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - The honorable senator knows how easy it is to create a false impression by a newspaper article. I have read the newspaper report of Sir John Monash's remarks, and I know to what he referred. It is true that he said we did not have an army; but when the distinguished general said that he was referring to the policy of retaining the nucleus of an army instead of an army. He said that, as an army, that nucleus was useless ; but our finances at the time were such that we could not maintain more than a nucleus. I challenge the Leader of the Government to ask Sir John Monash to compare the Government's new proposal with the system which it supersedes. At the time when our soldiers were winning world-wide praise, the party to which Senator Daly belongs declared publicly that it was folly to send any more Australians overseas, because the few thousand men that we could put into the field would not be more than as a spoonful of water in the ocean compared with the vast masses already there. I do not say that the Australian soldiers won the war; but I refer with all modesty to the words of the great enemy general, Ludendorf, who said that it was the allied victory of the 8th August, 1918, which convinced him that Germany had lost the war. That victory was won by the Australians under Sir John Monash. The force under his control was greater than that which comprised the whole British Army at Waterloo. So great was the faith of the Allied leaders in Sir John Monash that a force of Canadians equal to the Australian force in numbers was placed under his command. The Labour party at that time would have robbed the Allies of the momentous victory which the Australians won on that occasion. So long as Australia maintains even the nucleus of an army like that which fought in the late war, other nations will hesitate to challenge it; but, unfortunately, the Government has announced its intention to abolish the system which built up that army, and to substitute for it something which might in future bring the Australian soldier into contempt. While every officer of the force will do his best to make a success of the new scheme, that success will not be attained unless the Government itself urges the citizens of this country to fill the empty ranks, and make the army a live concern. The Labour party, however, contains men who would leave Australia defenceless. 63 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - There is a minority in every political party, including that to which the honorable senator belongs, which would do that. 63 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - The- reason for the Government's proposal is difficult to understand, seeing that it has admitted that it is not made on the ground of economy. Indeed, it proposes to spend even more money, not on schools of instruction, but on what are comparative frills. It will provide prettier uniforms for the volunteers. Should the men of Scottish extraction insist on being provided with kilts, the additional expense will be considerable. If the Government and its supporters were frank, they would admit that they have no desire whatever to take any part in the defence of the Empire. One would think that the United States of America, being separated by many miles of sea from any possible enemy, would not build up any considerable military force, but that country is not adopting that policy. President Hoover has been enthusiastically quoted as a leading exponent of the doctrine that countries, such as Australia, can purchase immunity from invasion by disarming, and so shaming warlike neighbours into disarming, too. His Armistice Day speech shows that he does not share this infatuation. He said - The world is at peace, but it is an armed peace. Including active reserves there are nearly 10,000,000 more men under arms than there were at the outbreak of the war in 1914, and there are fears, distrusts and smouldering injuries amongst the nations which are the tinder of war. Nor does anything in human experience warrant the assumption that war cannot occur again. We must reduce and limit warships by agreement only. I have no faith in reduction of armaments by example alone. Until the nations can build agencies for the pacific settlement of disputes on stronger foundations, until fear has been proved groundless by long proof of international honesty, until the power of world public opinion as a restraint of aggression has had many years' test, there will not have been established that confidence which warrants the abandonment of preparedness for defence amongst the nations. To do so may invite war. Dohonorable senators supporting the Government wish to invite war in Australia in the years to come? 64 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - Is it not a fact that the United States of America is about the most jingoistic country in the world? 64 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - That may be so; but I have no doubt that the people of the United States of America have some basis for their fear. And who is to say that one day that country will not deem it expedient to invade Australia? Prior to the war the United States of America possessed 10 dreadnoughts, 23 cruisers, 42 destroyers, and 23 submarines. Last year, despite the Washington naval agreement, that country had 18 dreadnoughts, 32 cruisers, 262 destroyers, and 122 submarines - an enormous increase on the pre-war figures. It has a regular army of 134,500 men and 180,000 militia. It proposes to raise the latter figures to 435,000. In addition, it has 112,000 in the reserve officers' training corps, comprising university graduates and other highly-educated men who, after their ordinary military training, are placed in a special reserve. 64 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - We see some of those in the pictures. 64 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - No doubt they get good training in sham fights, and are photographed in the process. Senator Dooley said this afternoon that in its defence proposals this Government was keeping pace with the times. I invite him now to say with what country are we keeping pace. I heard some reference to Denmark's proposal to disarm. On that subject I addressed a question to the honorary minister (Senator Barnes) today, and I was told that the official information will be obtained for me. In the course of my military duties I get information of this nature and I know that the Government of Denmark never proposed to dispense entirely with its army. Although it intends to abolish compulsory military training, it will retain its 25,000 regular troops at their full strength. We should remember also that Denmark has an area about equal to that of Gippsland in Victoria, or the Federal Capital Territory, and I suggest that a regular army of 25,000 men is ample for its defence. Its harbours, I presume, are well guarded by submarines. It cannot be suggested that the position of Denmark is analogous to that of Australia. This country offers a much richer prize for an aggressor nation. It would appear from its declaration of policy, that if Great Britainbecame involved in war, the aim of the present Government would be to maintain neutrality in Australia. 64 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - I hope so. 64 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Well, that is a useful admission to have. When we went away at the outbreak of the war, the party which the honorable senator is now supporting declared that Australia was in the war to the last man and the last shilling. We left Australia with that promise ringing in our ears, but when we were almost at our last gasp a certain section of the Labour party failed to live up to its promise. Disguise it as they may, the Government and its supporters are under the domination of the Red Internationale, which regards Great Britain as its greatest foe. At present the Red Internationale is raising a revolt among the natives in South Africa and is doing its best to cause trouble in India. It is endeavouring to white ant the British Empire in the hope that one day it will tumble down in ruins, and it seems that this Government is prepared to give these enemies of our Empire its full support. My career as a soldier is rapidly coming to a close, and I do not wish to see Australia's sons with naked hands in the face of some enemy. Possibly a son of Senator Dunn may one day be in that unhappy position. 64 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - God forbid. 64 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - I am with the honorable senator in that wish. That is why I am protesting against the defence policy of the Government. I turn now to the John Brown prosecution. That was another confidence trick planned by the Labour party on the Australian public. The present Government even got Mr. Maxwell " in the bag," for he went about declaring the iniquity of the Bruce-Page Government for failing to prosecute Mr. John Brown. To-day the Leader of the Senate (Senator Daly) admits that, after all, it is a matter of pure law - that he is unable to say whether or not Mr. Brown was guilty of an offence. He knows that as a matter of pure law, Mr. Brown has been guilty of no offence. Recently, in the Melbourne Argus, I had an interesting discussion on this subject with Colonel Crouch, a member of the Labour party, who, like myself, is a lawyer. My final contribution to the controversy was an offer of £50 to the funds of any industrial union named by Mr. Crouch if he could produce the opinion of any K.C. practising in Melbourne - this offer included Mr. Maxwell, K.C. - who was prepared to say that there was a clear case against Mr.. Brown. I agree with the Leader of the Senate, that the issue involved is a question of law, and a very difficult one, too. But the honorable gentleman did not stress this fact when he was in opposition. He contented himself with decrying the action of the Government in withdrawing the prosecution. 65 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly -We objected to the withdrawal of the prosecution after it had been launched. 65 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - The honorable gentleman knows that prosecutions are withdrawn every day of the week. The Crown, if it is satisfied after further investigation that no offence has been committed, enters a nolle prosequi. 65 JTL 0 0 DALY, John Senator Daly - In the John Brown case, the Attorney-General did not say he was satisfied that no offence had been committed. 65 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Well, the Leader of the Senate now has all the papers. If he is satisfied that an offence was committed,I invite him to launch a prosecution now. 65 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - The Bruce-Page Government withdrew the prosecution against the advice of the Attorney-. General. SenatorH. E. ELLIOTT. - Well, that advice stands, so why not carry on and prosecute ? 65 K1L 0 0 BARNES, John Senator Barnes - We will get him in another way. 65 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - We all know, of course, that the attack on the Bruce-Page administration over the John Brown prosecution, was only part of the scheme of misrepresentation that was such a marked feature of the whole election campaign. As a final instance of hypocrisy on the part of the Government and its supporters, I propose to quote an interesting document, which I think should be placed on record in Hansard. Every one knows that the appellation "digger" is regarded as an honorable one by every Australian soldier. No one thought of claiming the term as an exclusive privilege, but a certain gentleman, it appears, considered that he had a better right to it than anybody else. I have here a copy of a document from the RegistrarGeneral's office in New South Wales. It reads as follows: - Know all Men by these Presents that i the undersigned James Patrick Digger Dunn of Kempsey in the State of New South Wales Engine Driver and now or lately called James Patrick Dunn Do Hereby on behalf of myself and my heirs and issue lawfully begotten absolutely adopt and assume the additional christian name of" Digger " and for the purpose of evidencing such additional christian name i Hereby Declare that I shall at all times hereafter in all records deeds documents and other writings and in all actions suits and proceedings as well as in all doalings transactions matters and things whatsoever and upon all occasions use and subscribe the said name of James Patrick Digger Dunn and I therefore hereby expressly authorize and require all persons whomsoever at all times to designate describe and address me as James Patrick Digger Dunn. In Witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this fourteenth day of August in the year one thousand nine hundred and twenty eight. James Patrick Digger Dunn (l.s. ) Signed Sealed and Delivered by the said James Patrick Dunn in the presence of: - H. Sheridan, Solicitor, Kempsey Registered No. 1185. Received into the office of the Registrar General the sixteenth day of August one thousand nine hundred and twenty eight. I suggest that the honorable gentleman could not have been too sure of his right to share in the glory attached to that name, so he took out patent rights for it. 65 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - I served under you. 65 JYG VICTORIA NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - That may be so. I have met many of the men who were under my command during the war. Altogether about 25,000 men passed through my hands. I turnnow to another interesting subject - the statement that southern Europeans are allowed to come to Australia to take work which should be given to Australians, and I propose to show that they are not doing this country any dis-service. In the Gippsland district of Victoria a vast area of fertile hills country was abandoned during the war, because of the inroads of rabbits and the spread of the bracken fern. When our boys came back from the war, those who in the ordinary course would have returned to farms in the hills districts of Gippsland and the Otway Ranges, realized that the country could be reclaimed only as the result of a tremendous expenditure of labour. Furthermore, they were attracted to the city by the illusion of high wages and short working hours, so they drifted off the land, and hundreds of thousands of acres of fertile farm areas were abandoned. To-day southern Europeans are taking up those lands. They are hard at work clearing the country of bracken and rabbits, and are converting the holdings into productive settlements. These men are not depriving anyone of a job, but are only undertaking pioneering work which others who have sought easier conditions in the cities have declined to do. They carry on their task from early morning until nightfall, and are assisted by their womenfolk, just as are many rural workers in France and Italy 66 K1Z 0 0 RAE, Arthur Senator Rae - They are in a different position from those who aro competing with men in the labour market. 66 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Yes, and for that reason there is no justification for condemning them. I attended school with sons of southern Europeans, some of whom fought in the Australian Imperial Forces overseas. They are good Australian citizens and we should welcome them, particularly as many of them are developing land which others have neglected and in doing so are endeavouring to secure an honest livelihood for themselves and their families. When these diligent men are. reclaiming a wilderness and are not interfering with anyone, why should we term them " dagoes " ? Their sons will make just as good men as the present Treasurer who, believe, is of the same descent. Men should be encouraged to take up this work. 66 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - Do they receive the award rates? 66 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - Award rates do not come into the question, as they are working on their own account just as' are other rural settlers who are operating in a small way in other parts of the Commonwealth. I am not in favour of men being sweated; but men of this type who are assisting the development of this country should be encouraged. 66 JYB 0 0 DUNN, James Patrick Digger Senator Dunn - Are not many of them working for farmers? 66 JYG NAT 0 0 ELLIOTT, Harold Senator H E ELLIOTT - In most -cases, I understand, they have taken up abandoned farms, and in providing for themselves are also rendering a very useful service to the community. It is wrong to assume that every southern European who comes to this' country is a competitor in the labour market, because many of them are undertaking ' work which our own people will not tackle. I am sorry that the Government has submitted such a meagre legislative programme, and in conclusion point out that it is somewhat difficult to learn from the Governor-General's Speech what measures the Ministry actually intends to introduce. Debate (on motion by Senator Sir Hal Colebatch) adjourned. 66 miscellaneous Motion (by Senator Daly) agreed to - That the Senate at its rising adjourn till to-morrow at 11 a.m. Senate adjourned at 10.5 p.m.