At around the late teens, you'll start getting an additional damage bonus,
depending on your strength and weapons skills and offense. I started seeing
mine about 18th, with Anthem and Warsong going. It goes up slowly but
surely
With a 5 damage well balanced scimitar, at 29th level, I'm hitting for 16.
With a 6 damage WB rapier, I'm hitting for 19, and with a 7 damage barbed
leather whip or 7 damage Jambiya, I'm hitting for 22.
Oh, that's SERRATED bone dirk btw, it's an 8 damage weapon, (but casts
Engulfing Darkness) and it's rogue only. And more importantly, it's
PIERCING.
The guy that runs EQ'lizer probably hasn't seen any of those toys in real
life, and half his information is incorrect.
Another little tidbit, this right from Ryan Palachio (Head tuning GM).
Since the start of retail, STR affects not only how much you can carry and
how hard you hit, but also how WELL you hit.
DEX is still a factor in accuracy, but now STR is worked on both sides of
the combat equation, To-Hit and Damage.
As far as your DPS formula goes, I think you'd be better served simply
dividing the base damage by the delay, it's a better real world indicator.
Ah, hell, tired of typing, here's a cut and paste from a post I made on the
EQ Beta board back in November. Some of the weapon stats have changed due
to tuning, but it's still accurate.
A lot of numbers here, don't read if you're not into that sorta thing. VERY
LONG POST!!
Posted By: Kendrick <
capozzi@...>
Tuesday, 3 November 1998, at 10:41 a.m.
In Response To: I've got to disagree (Kiro)
> I just can't agree with you here Kendrick. I've heard you talk about speed
> being a principle factor in your weapon selection before - but you cannot
> ignore a higher damager "per click" capacity of the mino axe.
> This will be obvious to most everyone, but evaluate the weapon based on
> the amount of time (speed factor time) that is takes the weapon to inflict
> 1 point of damage. For the longsword this is 4.8333 clicks - for the mino
> axe it is 4.625 clicks and for the combine longsword (as a reference) it
> is 4.667.
> Now - from those numbers, you can see that a mino axe will outdistance
> both the longsword and the combine longsword in damage. I recognize the
> speed advantage in giving better averaged damage in any one combat - but
> if you give the mino axe enough time, it will come out ahead. Instead of
> basing your weapon decision on ONE combat, base it on a lifetime. The mino
> axe will far exceed the longsword and combine longsword in damage over a 4
> level lifetime with that weapon (then you need the combine for it's magic
> capabilities).
Here is one big factor that skews the straight time vs damage calculations:
Higher attack speed means more chances of processing dual attack and or
wield.
Once those two skills come into play, faster weapons take a large leap
forward in overall efficiency. I'd much rather have the system check every 3
seconds if I get an additional attack(s) than I would every 5 seconds. Those
are arbitrary time factors, but you get the point. A longsword checks every
29 units, to see if you swing twice, or use your secondary...a mino axe
checks every 38 units. Probability is in favor of the faster weapon here.
Before that time, lower offense/weapons skills mean you miss more. So,
swinging more IS a good thing, be it one combat, or one hundred combats.
Hitting a target has a large random component, stacking the odds more in
your favor never hurts. Not to mention faster swings means faster skill
increases, something not to be overlooked.
When you jump the gap, and go to 2h weapons, well, they ARE more efficient.
They have to be, to make up for the loss of either a shield or a secondary
weapon, and are purpose designed to be the most devastating weapons in the
game.
You'll note also, that the 'good' weapons break a couple of rules, they have
higher base damage, and higher speed, with the level 40-50 stuff having
damage numbers half that of their attack speed, more or less. You'll not be
likely to see any weapons with more than .50 efficiency in players hands.
Ok, to find the efficiency rating (as I call it) of a given weapon, divide
its base damage by it's attack speed.
3/20 Dagger .150
4/23 Short Sword .170
5/25 Rapier/Scimitar .200
7/35 Battle Axe .200
6/29 Longsword/Spear .206
8/39 Bastard sword .205
8/38 Mino axe .210,
6/28 Combine longsword .214,
5/23 Combine rapier .217,
6/27 Combine spear .222
7/28 Barbed leather whip .250,
6/25 Stiletto of Bloodclaw .24,
8/35 Screaming Mace .228
12/43 Combine 2h .270
14/50 Halberd .280
14/43 Dwarven Greataxe/Bloodstained Sword .325
16/35 Gigantic Zwiehander .457
11/22 Fanged Skull Stiletto .50
That's just a listing of a weapon's optimum efficiency level. You'll note
though, that a bastard sword is a hair worse than a longsword, a mino axe a
hair better, and neither do as well as a combine longsword.
Another calculation you can do, which gives you a better 'real world'
indication of how good a weapon is, is to determine a baseline weapon, I
pick steel longswords, and compare damage over any given period of time. To
do this, you take the attack speed, multiply it by the number of attacks you
want, and then multiply that number by the base damage. Lets do 100 swings
of a long sword. That takes 2900 (29 speed) time units, and yeilds 600
(100*6) damage.
Now, take a mino axe, divide its speed, 38, by 2900. That gives you 76.3,
the amount of swings it will do in the same time period. Multiply that by 8,
the base damage. In the time it takes a longsword to swing 100 times for 600
damage, a mino axe swings 76, for 610. Ten points. Ten points in return for
23.7% less chances to hit. To figure longer spans, just add some zeros. The
gap widens a bit, 10x that time=100 more damage for the mino axe, but 240
more swings with the longsword, and so on. With bonus damage for higher
skills, the ratio is still the same.
A regular bastard sword fares even worse, doing 74 swings, and 594 damage.
A combine longsword will do 103 swings, and 621 damage.
A combine rapier will do 126 attacks, for 630 damage.
A combine spear will do 107 attacks, and 644 damage.
A screaming mace will do 82 swings, and 662 damage.
A bloodclaw stiletto will do 116 attacks, for 696 damage.
A barbed whip will do 103 swings, and 724 damage.
A halberd will do 58 swings, and 812 damage.
A 2h combine, 67 swings, 809 damage.
A dwarven 2h greataxe or bloodstained sword will do 67 attacks, and 944
damage.
All of the above weapons are in the game, and in testers hands. [Note: All
numbers were rounded down] Also, the above numbers do not take into account
the advantages of dual attack/wield.
To put this all in context, with off-the-shelf weapons, I'd have no
hesitation standing a pair of 30th level players, one dual combine longsword
warrior up against a combine 2h sword or halberd wielding warrior..it'd be a
close fight, and my money would be on the longsword user, all else being
equal. Were it a sword and shield vs a 2h, well, the 2h user would win.
The rough calculation of dual attack going off is (Skill+Level)/500, the
result being a percentage.
For dual wield, it's (Skill+Level)/600
At 30th level, you've got a 30% chance of getting your secondary attack in.
That's roughly 30% more damage you can inflict (and, at 30th level, you can
use that offhand weapon TWICE, if warrior or rogue). With only one secondary
attack, a dual weilding combine longsword user is almost dead even with a
single combine 2h or halberd user (807 points of damage vs 809 or 812 for
the 2h user, and of course, the dual user has a lot more swings)..if he's IS
a warrior or rogue, he does even better, approaching 1000 points damage.
This is not factoring in the increased chance over time of your primary
going off twice with a faster weapon.
Hope this clarifies my reasoning, and doesn't bore you to tears reading it.
And it's just this sort of thing I'm really going to miss, if all the
numbers get hidden in retail. Counterpoint being, a lot of folks DON'T want
to know these sort of things.
Messages in This Thread
a.. When if ever will we see an actual Assassin class? -- Ryaxx --
Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 4:18 p.m.
a.. Re: When if ever will we see an actual Assassin class? -- Brad
McQuaid -- Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 6:18 p.m.
a.. Brad... -- Ryaxx -- Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 6:26 p.m.
a.. Really? Looking at my skill list I always considered that part
of me... -- Lorcan -- Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 6:30 p.m.
a.. Re: Really? Looking at my skill list I always considered that
part of me... -- Ryaxx -- Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 6:34 p.m.
a.. Umm, yes the quest is to assisinate... -- Lorcan --
Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 6:36 p.m.
b.. Re: When if ever will we see an actual Assassin class? -- kaen --
Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 5:51 p.m.
a.. good idea -- Ryaxx -- Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 6:18 p.m.
a.. Re: good idea -- kaen -- Sunday, 1 November 1998, at 10:00 a.m.
c.. Re: When if ever will we see an actual Assassin class? -- Kileyan --
Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 4:30 p.m.
a.. Assassins kill people not monsters -- Ryaxx -- Saturday, 31
October 1998, at 4:47 p.m.
a.. Re: Assassins kill people not monsters -- Boewin of the Half
Hand -- Saturday, 31 October 1998, at 5:35 p.m.
a.. Not quite correct -- Kendrick -- Saturday, 31 October 1998, at
6:09 p.m.
a.. I've got to disagree -- Kiro -- Tuesday, 3 November 1998, at
5:56 a.m.
a.. A lot of numbers here, don't read if you're not into that
sorta thing. VERY LONG POST!! -- Kendrick -- Tuesday, 3 November 1998, at
10:41 a.m.
a.. The dangers of conjecture -- Forge -- Thursday, 5
November 1998, at 5:32 a.m.
b.. kendrick the massively leveled help me with
something. -- Baldaan -- Wednesday, 4 November 1998, at 9:56 a.m.
a.. Re: kendrick the massively leveled help me with
something. -- Kendrick -- Wednesday, 4 November 1998, at 12:40 p.m.
b.. Re: kendrick the massively leveled help me with
something. -- Absor -- Wednesday, 4 November 1998, at 10:49 a.m.
c.. Re: A lot of numbers here, don't read if you're not into
that sorta thing. VERY LONG POST!! -- Ruepel da troll Shaman (Nox) --
Tuesday, 3 November 1998, at 11:46 a.m.
a.. Re: A lot of numbers here, don't read if you're not
into that sorta thing. VERY LONG POST!! -- Kendrick -- Tuesday, 3 November
1998, at 12:03 p.m.
a.. Re: A lot of numbers here, don't read if you're not
into that sorta thing. VERY LONG POST!! -- Nox -- Tuesday, 3 November 1998,
at 12:59 p.m.
b.. Double Attack and Speed -- Boewin of the Half Hand --
Monday, 2 November 1998, at 9:02 a.m.
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----- Original Message -----
From: David Rubino <tigger@...>
To: <eqbards@onelist.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 1999 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [eqbards] 1H Slashing Magical Weapon List - Read and comment
>From: David Rubino <tigger@...>
>
>
>Sure,
>
>The formula is simple. First of all, a weapon has a maximum amount of
>damage it can do in a single hit. This amount is (DMG * 2) + 1. Why? It
>just does . . . observe your weapon's behavior. Your Mino Axe should do no
>more than 17 damage (8 * 2) +1.
>
>Obviously, you won't always do the maximum amount of damage.
>
>Your STR helps determine how close to the max you hit. The higher your STR,
>the more chance you'll have of hitting for the max. Your skill in the
>weapon and in offense probably affects this as well.
>
>Also, your opponent's armor will affact how much damage you hit for,
>because their armor will absorb some of your damage. You will notice you do
>less damage against higher level characters even when you hit them.
>
>So my formula takes the max amount of damage (DMG * 2) + 1 . . . and
>divides it by the delay of a weapon in seconds (Delay / 10). Doing this you
>get damage per second, which is probably better named maximum damage per
>second.
>
>-Musil
>
>At 09:38 AM 5/9/99 , you wrote:
>>From: "Blitz Krieg" <blitz_krieg@...>
>>
>>Question about your formula for dps... And maybe it's a question about
>>damage in general... : )
>>
>>(damage*2)+1 Where'd you get the *2? Doesn't STR get factored in there
>>somewhere? I am extremelly curious about this as I am probably over
>>obsessive about Stats. : )
>>
>>If someone could break down how my Mino Axe with a damage of 8 does 18 max
>>damage for me, I'd appreciate it. :)
>>
>>I have a base strength of 95, going as high as 112 with buffs and equip.
>>
>>
>>> I sorted through the list of weapons on EQLizer for magic 1H slashing
>>>weapons.
>>>
>>> The obvious ones are the combine longsword and scimtar, and their
>>>well-balanced counterparts. Information on these is widely held, so I
won't
>>>go into detail here.
>>>
>>> First, let me say I measure the damage value of a weapon using a stat
>>>called damage per second (dps). This is calculated assuming that the
delay
>>>is in tenths of a sec (I think that's about right). To calculate:
(damage
>>>* 2) + 1 ) / (delay / 10)
>>>
>>> Please give me any info you have on any of these weapons, including
>>>opinons on which is best, how hard they to obtain, how much they sell for
>>>if sold, etc.
>>>
>>> Also, if there are any missng from this list please add them. (There are
>>>only 4 here). And two of those are not even confirmed as 1H slashing
magic
>>>weapons. If they are not magic and 1H slashing then I am very much
hoping
>>>I am missing some good ones from this list.
>>>
>>>Barbed Whip
>>>Damage 7 / Delay 28 = 5.35 dps
>>>Found on the Bonrcrusher in Najena
>>>
>>>Polished Granite Tomahawk
>>>Damage 6 / Delay 26 = 5 dps
>>>Casts berserker strnegth occasionally, but I don't know what this is.
>>>Have no idea where it is found.
>>>
>>>Crystalline Sword
>>>Damage 11 / Delay 38 = 6.05 dps
>>>Don't even know if this is magical, but I have a feeling it is
>>>Don't have any idea where to find it
>>>Don't even know if it is 1H Slashing
>>>Please help on this one, I like the stats!
>>>
>>>Cerrated Bone Dirk
>>>Damage 9 / Delay Delay 26 = 7.3 dps!
>>>Don't know if it is 1H slashing
>>>Don't know if it magic
>>>I do know it is found on the Froglock Assasin in Guk Bottom
>>>
>>>
>>>Just for comparison:
>>>
>>>Mino Axe
>>>Damage 8 / Delay 37 = 4.59 dps
>>>
>>>Dwarven Axe
>>>Damage 6 / Delay 26 = 5 dps
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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