On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Kimes, Dean W. wrote:
>
> You argued that their spells are useful later on. Snare is nifty, but as
> useful as Kellin's Lull?, no.
Well if you're going to play the level game, Lullaby is level
15. Aside from Accelerando and SoW, I would say Snare is The
Most Useful spell in the game at level 9.
> As useful as Acellerando?, no. At 9th level,
Only SoW is as useful as Accelerando. :-)
> and obviously before,if not for our entire careers, our spells are far more
> a defining part of our characters than any of the 'hybrids' (RNG,PAL,SHD).
> As far as I have heard it is NEVER suggested that any of these classes stand
> back and just cast spells in a group. Most on this list advocate that role
> for bards later in levels. The main point was we are more dependant on
Um, I think you're misinterpreting what higher level bards are
saying - you *can* do this and *sometimes* it's better to do
this *in a group*, but never throwing yourself in there with
weapons swinging would be just as bad as never singing.
> spells than RNG, PAL, or SHD. We are at least as dependent on spells as
> Shamans and Clerics, though probably not druids. There have even been
I think I see now how the bard combat ability vs. cleric
combat ability thread got sidetracked to bard vs. cleric...
> articles proclaiming Shamans to be the ultimate warrior class. Buff like
> mad, rush into melee cause you're big, strong, have armor equal to a ranger,
> and a big stick to swing.
A shaman who does this at higher levels is going to be turned
into puree. Armor helps, but not as much as parry and
riposte. My L30 ranger friend in banded, but with parry and
riposte tanks better than me at L35 in plate. That's why I've
been complaining about our dodge being capped so low.
> If bards should be standing back and taking a
> caster role, doesn't that make us more like, than unlike, those classes
> whatever they are?
If that's the impression you're getting and somehow I've
contributed to it, then I apologize.
There are two aspects of combat - offense and defense. The
way these two mix is often difficult to understand, which is
why people always ask whether you should sing Hymn during
combat, or why the DDD/CoD/Hymn combo works better than
weapons in some cases but not others. Better offense kills
mobs faster (shortens the fight). Better defense lets you
survive longer (lengthens the duration you can survive a
fight).
Not being good at tanking (defense) doesn't mean you have to
avoid melee (offense). You just have to fiddle around with
your song taunt effects so that the mobs usually end up
attacking the true tanks. While our area effect DoTs can do
better than our weapons in certain situations, most of the
time our weapons are the best way to contribute to the group
(with songs sung). If we get into a situation where more
defense is required (magic resist, more healing), then I'll
switch to instruments and stand back. If we need to kill a
mob quick though (e.g. spawn coming up), I'm right in there
with my blades.
Most classes don't get this choice. They just fight and let
the random number generator determine the outcome.
--
John H. Kim
kim@...