On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 jhenders@... wrote:

> Doubt all you want, but if you think a naked bard with a spare weapon in
> their hand is anything more than a liability on a corpse retrieval in
> lower guk or deep in Sol B you're dreaming. Usually the way it goes is

2 words, mana song.

Ok, more than 2 words <G>. Your songs are your strong point, not your
melee skills. If you think what you bring to a group is your melee
abilities, then you're playing the wrong class. Grab a spare flute, and
you can invis down most dungeons. Sure, in combat you're just going to
sit back and do absolutely nothing because having to pull stuff off you
would make you a liability, but your utility songs are still extremely
useful when you're naked.

> that's how it always worked on our server with our groups.

I read your argument, and to me you just basically said "I would
not choose to be bound outside a dungeon because that's how it always
worked." I fail to see the logic in that.
I agree, that's how it works, no one is disputing that. But is
that the best way? No. If you were bound right outside the dungeon,
you'd be assisting with corpse retrieval with mana song all the way down.
The only reason that's the way it works now is because you cannot be
bound right outside the dungeon.

> At higher levels an unarmored and weakly armed player is more of a
> liability than a bonus when doing corpse recovery. I was in a 2 group

Certainly not. You get them a decent weapon (magician summoned
weapons are actually quite good) and they stay off their taunt button, and
they are still a very signifigant source of damage, with enough hit points
where a cleric can keep them alive if they pull stuff on them for some
reason. Yes, for some things you'll need outside help (Efreeti is the
best example I can think of right now, cause you can get past the bugs
withh 2 naked groups, but the imps and elementals will be rough), but I've
been on numerous Fire Giant and Efreeti corpse retrievals, both as the
group who needed retrieval, and as the help, and the naked people never
died (at least not under my supervision as cleric).

> Granted I haven't played my bard in about a month except for special
> events like dragon hunts so maybe these dungeons are so overcamped now
> you can just wander down to the hand room naked to get your body, but it
> certainly wasn't like that when I did play, and binding near the dungeon
> would have been a waste of time when I did.
>

Last time I walked into Lower Guk... A group at the zone line, a
group at the bedroom, a group at the gibs, a group in the assassin's room,
a group in the savant room, a group at the magi, a group at frenzied. And
that's just the undead side... * sigh * But I digress. But a parting
thought. Even if you don't contribute to the retrieval party (which I
think is a mistake), you should be at the zone line to give mana song to
the casters in your party who are going back in (since they are probably
needing mana). You can be ressed from the zone line just as well as you
can be ressed from town, but you have a lot more options when you're at
the zone line.

Miriana Windryder
Lvl 50 Cleric
Lvl 14 Bard
Innoruuk Server