Early on Bards are comparable to Shaman in melee, but as the bard starts
adding on plate class armor (especially the good magic pieces) the Bard will
easily start to pull away from a Shaman.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cranfill, Wendy <Wendy_Cranfill@...>
To: <eqbards@onelist.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: [eqbards] RE: RE: Bellow song Damage
> Well my Shaman is 35, and I have decent armor for my level
> nothing special. I have an observer staff and am maxed (I think) for my
> level in 2H blunt. And all I have to say is that buffed up to the hilt, I
> can MAYBE solo a blue in melee (not using DOT and DD)...but I doubt it.
> This is strict melee. Even when I use my spells, I still need to kite a
> little to be comfortable. My bard is only 17 and does just fine on a
> blue... I don't know how she will be at 35 yet.
>
> I guess my point (do I have one here?) is that my bard kicks
> ass in melee compared to my shaman (can't say about other hybrid classes
or
> about other bards or other shaman). Shaman are best at niche filling -
> turning the tide of battle in our favor, whether by buffing, debuffing or
a
> nicely placed heal or DD. Maybe bards are best at that too, with a slight
> emphasis on getting in there and fighting. But if my shaman is taking
hits,
> I crumple just about as fast as a wizard :-)
>
> Tani 17th Bard
> Halana 35th Shaman
> Solusek Ro
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kimes, Dean W.
> [mailto:Dean_Kimes@...]
> Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 11:09 AM
> To: 'eqbards@onelist.com'
> Subject: RE: [eqbards] RE: RE: Bellow
> song Damage
>
> From: "Kimes, Dean W."
> <Dean_Kimes@...>
>
> If you jump off a 10 story building you will
> fall. That is a fact.
> If you jump off a 10 story building you will
> die. That is not a fact.
>
> You are the only person I know who does not
> know the difference between a
> fact and an opinion.
>
> Maybe Bards eventually become better than
> Shamans in melee, but not at level
> 17. Dual wield was not sufficient to
> prevent me from being pummeled due to
> the numerous stuns I received. All shamans
> have slam. Sure it never goes
> up, but it is still sufficient to stun a
> 17th level bard.
>
> Bards are better than all hybrids in magical
> power? Under what microscope
> did you determine that? At lower levels its
> obviously true as the other
> hybrids have no magical power. Hmm lets
> examine them at higher levels.
> Paladin get Greater Heal, 400 hp that's 3
> minutes worth of Hymn with a lute
> and it takes them less time than that to
> meditate back the mana. They also
> get Revive at their utmost level of spell
> use. Not to mention Lay Hands.
> Rangers probably have the weakest line of
> spells getting nothing above Heal,
> though they do get Wolf Form, cool but not
> overly powerful. Shadowknights
> spells are fearsome. The Engulfing Darkness
> DoT line is devastating as it
> destroys our best defense, Acellerando and
> it stacks with their Heat Blood.
> They also now have the lifetap series. All
> this aside their Harm Touch
> alone is a devastating if slow to recharge
> weapon. We do have a greater
> number of spells than the other hybrids do
> though. Are our abilities
> obviously better, I would not say so.
> Better in a full group of six maybe,
> better in small groups, that's not apparent.
> Even if we were better it
> certainly would not be 5-6 times better and
> that's how the other hybrids
> relate to us in terms of melee skills.
>
> Now since I have stated that bards magical
> abilities might not be so much
> better than some of the other hybrids,
> rangers excluded as their spells are
> truly weak, feel free to call me a liar.
> That will just be one more
> definition you will need to look up on
> Merriam-Webster Online, right after
> 'fact'.
>
> To further turn your argument around:
> Bards cannot beat any caster consistently in
> pure magical combat. (though
> I've come close with Maxell MR)
> Bards cannot beat any other hybrid or melee
> type consistently in pure melee
> combat.
>
> Neither of those statements however true
> prove we are weaker than those
> classes any more than yours prove we are
> equal in power. In my opinion, we
> are weaker than several of the other
> classes. The weakness is not generally
> overbearing but that doesn't mean it
> shouldn't be corrected. To be honest I
> think a realignment of our skills would
> suffice to bridge the gap without
> modifications to our spells other than
> including the missing ones and fixing
> the broken ones. An added melee skill like
> Parry which succeeds more often
> than Dodge, and some raised caps on skills
> that are currently of debatable
> usefulness would help as well. Most
> Jack-of-all-trades are seen as
> self-sufficient characters while we are
> definitely not designed to be very
> capable on our own. We do best in groups
> due to the nature of our spells.
> It is this very grouping nature that further
> undermines the usefulness of
> our other skills as there will often be
> present others in the group whose
> skill so far overshadows ours in those other
> areas that we might as well not
> have the skill at all. There is no benefit
> to having Find Traps and Pick
> Locks when there is a rogue in the group
> with more than double your skill.
> If we were meant to be characters who could
> function on their own and do
> nearly everything, if not well, that would
> be different. However, we are
> not. We are meant to group and for every
> member we add to our group some of
> our skills become superfluous just as our
> magical powers become more potent.
>
> Kitasi
>
>
> From: "Wayne Sheppard"
> <mrwayne@...>
>
> 1. Bards are better than all Pure Casters
> and Priests in melee. (MAG, WIZ,
> ENC, NEC, CLR, SHA, DRU)
> 2. Bards are better than all hybrids in
> magical power. (PAL, RNG, SK)
>
> The above statements are facts and cannot be
> disputed. Every Bard should
> understand these facts.
>
> If someone tries to contradict one of the
> above statements, I will point
> them out as a liar. Especially to those
> Bards who have been on this list
> quite a while.
>
>
> As to the nature of my messages, in the past
> I have made some poor choices.
> But I've tried to do better. I looked at my
> last five messages and saw
> nothing out of the ordinary. I'd be glad to
> discuss any of my posts with
> you or anyone else in private, not on the
> list.
>
>
> Wayne
>
>
> > From: "G.W. Willman, IV"
> <gww6e@...>
> > Subject: RE: RE: Bellow song Damage
> >
> > Wayne,
> >
> > Just curious, what server do you play
> on and do you play a bard? The
> > reason I ask is because you emails are
> consistently sniping in nature and
> > generally flamebait. I'll be the first to
> defend your right to free
> speech
> > however I would ask that you perhaps
> temper somewhat your future remarks
> > with the fact this is a public forum meant
> for discussion -- closing doors
> > via naked accusations and bombastic
> proclamations offers little room for
> > such to take place on a mutually
> respectful level.
>
> Please send submissions for the eqbards
> newsletter to lol@...
> with the subject submissions.
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