John,
Good post. Did you include this as part of your post to GZ for inclusion in
the next ArchMage Answers message? I'd like to see what he has to say about
some of the issues you raised.
Galtin of E'ci
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kim@... [SMTP:kim@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:15 AM
> To: eqbards@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [eqbards] Are we Hybrids?
>
> From: <kim@...>
>
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2000, Robin Wise 3 wrote:
> >
> > The delineation of melee skills is compelling in my eyes as one reason
> bards
> > are not hybrids. As John said, we're "not-a", or put another way we
> share
> > characteristics of many classes without being classified as a member of
> that
> > class. We're kinda like rogues (silly skills), kinda like enchanters
> (some
> > buffs, debuffs, and crowd control), kinda like shamans (some more buffs,
>
> > minor healing). Yet we're not-a-fighter, not-a-healer, not-a-caster.
> We
>
> Hmm, I guess I was a bit too subtle in my cynicism. :)
>
> When the classes get good stuff, we're a "not-a-" class.
> Casters get bind, but we're not-a-caster. Melee classes get
> parry and riposte, but we're not-a-melee. Hybrids got those
> minor resist bonuses, but we're not-a-hybrid.
>
> OTOH, when classes get nerfed, we're a "everything" class.
> DoT damage gets nerfed, we're a kiting class. Monster damage
> gets increased to make life tougher on melee classes, we're a
> melee class. etc.
>
> The problem with being a "not-a-" class is that it's not
> definitive subset. It changes based on the whim of what the
> speaker wants it to be. Verant uses it to make good sounding
> excuses to deny us things they give other classes. You want
> bind? But you're not a real casting class. You want parry?
> But you're not a real melee class. OTOH, if they'd classified
> us as hybrids for example, we would've gotten parry and the
> resist bonuses.
>
> > and 1 bard class (bard). Our songs are NOT like the spells of any other
>
> > class in the way they are implemented (pulses? what's a pulse? why
> would I
> > weave spells?);
>
> Funny you should mention that. My speculation is that this
> weaving business was completely accidental. I suspect the
> game works on a 6 second heartbeat, so the shortest possible
> spell/song duration is 6 seconds (this is a MUD-derived game
> after all). If you start/stop Accel and time its duration,
> it's always between 12 and 18 seconds. That's 2 heartbeats +
> [0 to 1.0 heartbeats depending on when you started the song in
> the initial heartbeat]. So I suspect they made a song system
> which had "instant" on/off effects, then found out that it let
> you weave two songs, and decided it was a neat enough effect
> that they increased some of the durations to make it easier to
> do. At its inception, I think bard songs were intended to
> only last while the bard was singing them. They just found it
> impossible to code it that way.
>
> > others; and almost every one of our spells improves linearly with the
> level
> > of the caster. Plus of course there's the fact that we only get one
> spell
> > per level (well, in theory anyways). Ok, ok, they're songs, not spells
> - we
> > differentiate our effects from all other casters', don't we? = )
>
> That's another gripe that I have. Since we only get one song
> per level, I don't see why *all* our "spells" don't improve
> with level. Specifically, Chain's slowdown. I mean here are
> all these high level mobs which are designed to still be
> challenging if an enchanter or shaman tosses a 100% or so
> slowdown, and they won't improve our slowdown over the initial
> 30%?
>
> Anyways, I still enjoy playing the game. I just don't think
> the bard class was implemented very well. Mind you I would
> never have decided this if I hadn't gotten the chance to play
> Verant's implementation. They didn't screw up, they tried
> something and IMHO it wasn't very successful. I think a good
> way to implement a bard class in a real-time RPG will involve
> different musical skills, phrasing, key, complexity, etc.,
> each having a different magical effect. The bard can then
> pick and choose, effectively composing on the fly to make
> different combinations of effects. e.g. Minor key debuffs
> opponent, major key buffs party; brass affects speed, drum
> affects stats, and so on. As your skill increases, so does
> the complexity of your song and thus the power of the effect
> (including being able to mix together things that are
> typically mutually exclusive like major and minor key).
>
> That and the stupid missed notes, which IMHO are pointless
> with a class that doesn't have any mana to fizzle. :)
>
>